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-   -   Detroit/Washington proposal (no cujo) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=14588)

Spitfire11 09-26-2003 05:01 PM

Detroit/Washington proposal (no cujo)
 
Det: Dainius Zubrus, 7th
Was: 1st 2004, Dandenault

FacelessButcher 09-26-2003 05:04 PM

how about this
Edm:Dainius Zubrus 4thpick
Wsh:Jason Smith(better defense man), 1st pick 2004(lower pick)

PigPen 09-26-2003 05:22 PM

...who in their right mind would give up a first round pick AND Jason Smith or Mathieu Dandeneault for Dainus Zubrus? I know I sure as hell wouldn't.

He's talented (Zubrus) but he hasn't put together that talent for more than 43 points in a season. Even if he does put all his talent together, he wouldn't be worth much more than 50.

How about just Dandeneault for a 2nd.

IkeaMonkey* 09-26-2003 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
how about this
Edm:Dainius Zubrus 4thpick
Wsh:Jason Smith(better defense man), 1st pick 2004(lower pick)

Where do I sign?

FacelessButcher 09-26-2003 05:28 PM

Edmonton needs this guy and I stand by my offer and he is about ready to break to through if given extra ice time and a leading role. Don't worry Detroit I have not forgotten about u I can grant u a 2nd center too by the name of Mike Comrie for the low low price of Jiri Fischer :)

FacelessButcher 09-26-2003 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HokEGoalie
Where do I sign?

the dotted line. need a pen?

RoyIsALegend* 09-26-2003 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
how about this
Edm:Dainius Zubrus 4thpick
Wsh:Jason Smith(better defense man), 1st pick 2004(lower pick)

I hope you're kidding.

That would decimate an already thin Oilers blueline.

FacelessButcher 09-26-2003 05:35 PM

not if we got Fischer, I needed extra to beat Detroit's offer

Lidstrom 09-27-2003 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
Edmonton needs this guy and I stand by my offer and he is about ready to break to through if given extra ice time and a leading role. Don't worry Detroit I have not forgotten about u I can grant u a 2nd center too by the name of Mike Comrie for the low low price of Jiri Fischer :)

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, no.

FacelessButcher 09-27-2003 05:17 AM

:( Someone got a top 4 d-man they can offer for Comrie. Otherwise I can't see the top trade being doable as RoyisaLegend said "I hope you're kidding.That would decimate an already thin Oiler's blueline." which I would tend to agree with if we got no one back in a seperate trade to fill Smith's spot.

btmarshall 09-27-2003 06:35 AM

The Caps are certainly thin on the blueline. No doubt. Yet after waiting two years for him to break out, they're not about to trade Zubrus now that he's suddenly tearing it up in pre-season.

The timing stinks. The Caps won't trade him. They're also looking to bring in Eminger and probably Boumedienne as defense regulars this season, then Yonkman and Cutta next season. Not a lot of room for more guys.

The Caps are going to have a crappy year, without question, while they start the painful process of rebuilding on defense, but it has to happen sometime. They want to get younger back there and besides, they aren't interested in trading a 6' 4" winger/center who is fast, stickhandles, passes, and has soft hands.

FacelessButcher 09-27-2003 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btmarshall
The Caps are certainly thin on the blueline. No doubt. Yet after waiting two years for him to break out, they're not about to trade Zubrus now that he's suddenly tearing it up in pre-season.

The timing stinks. The Caps won't trade him. They're also looking to bring in Eminger and probably Boumedienne as defense regulars this season, then Yonkman and Cutta next season. Not a lot of room for more guys.

The Caps are going to have a crappy year, without question, while they start the painful process of rebuilding on defense, but it has to happen sometime. They want to get younger back there and besides, they aren't interested in trading a 6' 4" winger/center who is fast, stickhandles, passes, and has soft hands.

It's such a sweet deal though :( . Ouch, doubly rejected on both trades. I am thinking Zub's will put up about 70+ pts. this season if he stays healthy for just this once. What u think?

Transplanted Caper 09-27-2003 06:54 AM

I dont know if Zubrus has the ability to score 70+ points in a season. There comes a point when you have to take the idea of his potential and throw it out the window. Does he have potential ? Of course. But one has to wonder whether or not he has the skills to make that potential worth something.

JeanValjean 09-27-2003 06:59 AM

just talked about Zubrus on the Caps' board...

Zubrus seems most comfortable on RW. He makes a lot of nifty offensive plays when approaching from that angle. He rarely plays RW though because Jagr and Bondra are ahead of him on the depth chart. Bondra jumps around from RW to LW as well (which is also not for the best).

If Bondra were dealt Zubrus could be the 2nd line right winger and I think he'd surprise with his numbers. 30 goals is within his range. And he's excellent defensively. But the Caps' owner has said that Bondra will never be traded so the chemistry is messy up front for Washington.

Marshall: I hope you're wrong about this season (i'm sure you hope the same). I don't see the Caps being any worse than last year (10 games over .500 or so right?) I'm encouraged that Klee is gone. We'll miss Calle. The D will be iffy unless a #2-#3 Dman is added but I don't expect much drop off from last year because they were quite terrible for long stretches on defense then too.

FacelessButcher 09-27-2003 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoLeafsGo2003
I dont know if Zubrus has the ability to score 70+ points in a season. There comes a point when you have to take the idea of his potential and throw it out the window. Does he have potential ? Of course. But one has to wonder whether or not he has the skills to make that potential worth something.

He has really starting to connect the dots and put all his skills together on a more consistent effort,I know hes kind of an old failed prospect(still just 25yrs. old) but hes starting to find his game, I noticed it and I am sure caps fans did to as u see the reluctance to deal him. He went 15pts in 16 games right near the end of last season before sustaining an injury and apparently hes looking even better in pre-season then what he ended last year with. I know its a risk and Oilers never deal their first pick but now is the time to get this guy because if he has the season I think he will, he will become untouchable for Edmonton to get.

txpd 09-27-2003 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PigPen
...who in their right mind would give up a first round pick AND Jason Smith or Mathieu Dandeneault for Dainus Zubrus? I know I sure as hell wouldn't.

He's talented (Zubrus) but he hasn't put together that talent for more than 43 points in a season. Even if he does put all his talent together, he wouldn't be worth much more than 50.

How about just Dandeneault for a 2nd.

I don't there are any circumstances where the Capitals trade Zubrus.
In the current market where you never give up value that can improve and perform above his contract level. Zubrus is that kind of player. He scored all 13 goals in his last 40 games last year. He lead all Caps forwards with a +15. He plays on a top 2 line, the first pp unit and the first pk unit. That alone makes him worth every bit of his current $1.6m contract. Just look at last season. He missed all of training camp and preseason with a hold out. He was on his 7th coach in 7 seasons and needed surgery on his hand to remove a painful calcium buildup that kept him from holding his stick. Even with that he put up strong numbers in his last 40 games and was a force in the playoffs. He is capable of an 80 pt season. It makes absolutely NO SENSE to trade a player that has earned every penny of his salary and could perform to double or triple that salary level. It also speaks volumes that there is one trade proposal after another on this board to get Zubrus away from the Capitals. Forget it. Zubrus has 4 goals and 6pts in 3 pre season games. He is the featured player in both the Post...Washingtonpost.com
and times...Washingtontimes.com. One last point. The Caps will keep Jagr and Lang on the trade block should someone step to buy either.
Zubrus remains the guy that would be expected to fill the skates of the player traded. Sp, forget it.

FacelessButcher 09-27-2003 07:19 AM

Would u be interested in

To Wsh:
Jason Smith
2nd round pick

To Edm:
Brian Sutherby
Jason Doig
5th pick

IkeaMonkey* 09-27-2003 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
Would u be interested in

To Wsh:
Jason Smith
2nd round pick

To Edm:
Brian Sutherby
Jason Doig
5th pick

As much as I'd love to get Doig out of the country, let alone a caps jersey, I dont want to give up Suts....

txpd 09-27-2003 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeanValjean
just talked about Zubrus on the Caps' board...

Zubrus seems most comfortable on RW. He makes a lot of nifty offensive plays when approaching from that angle. He rarely plays RW though because Jagr and Bondra are ahead of him on the depth chart. Bondra jumps around from RW to LW as well (which is also not for the best).

If Bondra were dealt Zubrus could be the 2nd line right winger and I think he'd surprise with his numbers. 30 goals is within his range. And he's excellent defensively. But the Caps' owner has said that Bondra will never be traded so the chemistry is messy up front for Washington.

Marshall: I hope you're wrong about this season (i'm sure you hope the same). I don't see the Caps being any worse than last year (10 games over .500 or so right?) I'm encouraged that Klee is gone. We'll miss Calle. The D will be iffy unless a #2-#3 Dman is added but I don't expect much drop off from last year because they were quite terrible for long stretches on defense then too.

I am picking Zubrus to lead the Caps in points this year. If he is a 60 to 80 pts guy, McPhee would look like an idiot for trading him.
As for Marshall's comments, the Caps could easily be a wasteland this year, but there is hope. Cassidy says that Eminger has been the best defenseman in camp and preseason. That is great news. With Gonchar, Witt and Doig split on 3 different pairs. IF Eminger can pick up the partner role with either Gonchar or Witt, the Caps are short of one defenseman really. I would stunned if Boumedienne is that guy, but we will see. The Caps can be A LOT worse than they were last year. Last year Kolzig lead the league in saves per game. He was seeing a lot of rubber and the Caps had about the worst PK in the NHL. Veterans like Klee and Johansson at minimum didn't tend to panic and run around when things got tough. I am not sure that the same can be said of Eminger and Boumedienne and Berry or whoever. So it can get worse.
Add to that Kolzig was as good as he can be last year and although he missed about ten games with injuries, but still played his 65+ games.
IF Kolzig is not at his best consistantly like last year or is injuried for any significant period of time, the Caps could get A LOT worse than last year.

FacelessButcher 09-27-2003 07:50 AM

U honestly think he will beat both Bondra and Jagr? I think that's a little to optimistic. Eminger being a top 4 d I don't know I think he needs a year more of farm or maybe he can be one of the 3rd d pairing. If u traded for Smith(fringe 3rd solid 4d-man) though it could make the wait for Eminger easier and allow him to develop properly instead of throwing him to the lions before hes ready, most people speculate it took Zubrus so long too develop into a star is because he was put in to early, I would not want to see u make the same mistake with Eminger. Witt and Smith would make a nasty combo as well as they are both hard checking d-men. Just food for thought.

txpd 09-27-2003 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
U honestly think he will beat both Bondra and Jagr? I think that's a little to optimistic. Eminger being a top 4 d I don't know I think he needs a year more of farm or maybe he can be one of the 3rd d pairing. If u traded for Smith(fringe 3rd solid 4d-man) though it could make the wait for Eminger easier and allow him to develop properly instead of throwing him to the lions before hes ready, most people speculate it took Zubrus so long too develop into a star is because he was put in to early, I would not want to see u make the same mistake with Eminger. Witt and Smith would make a nasty combo as well as they are both hard checking d-men. Just food for thought.

1. I think Zubrus has a shot at an 80 pt season. Bondra could score 40-45 goals and not get 80 pts. Thats just how his points work out. Jagr has not had 80 pts the last two years. So, it could happen.
2. I suggested that the Caps get Smith in the offseason, but they are not going to add payroll. Smith would be great to partner with Gonchar.
3. I think that McPhee's plan is to let Eminger play and give a guy like Boumedienne a chance to prove he belongs. If after 20 games they see, they are not cutting it, McPhee will make a deal for a guy like Smith who is playing out the end of a one year contract. there will be two dozen of those guys on the market in December.
4. Zubrus has taken so long to develope because he has not had any stability in his career at all. 3 teams in 7 years, 7 coaches in 7 years, and a hold out. This is his first training camp with the Capitals and its his first season ever with the same coach two years in a row. As a Capital, his last 20 games in both seasons have been dominant. That tells me that he has an adjustment period to a new team the first year and after a hold out the second year.

Dizzy 09-27-2003 12:01 PM

Not to nitpick but this is Zubrus' second camp with the Caps, he was in camp two years ago. And it's his second time with the same coach, he had Vigneault for two camps. Though I don't know if it means that much this year when the coach is Cassidy.


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