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-   -   What is the consensus on Coburn here if he is not traded? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1461345)

flyersfan314 07-04-2013 01:03 AM

What is the consensus on Coburn here if he is not traded?
 
I'd like to hear some opinions on Coburn if you all are willing to share em.

BillDineen 07-04-2013 01:09 AM

He can go into beast mode, but he is usually in dumb mode, like all of last season.

phlocky 07-04-2013 01:16 AM

He'll play on the 2nd pairing. Most likely it will be Streit paired with him but if Gus shows that he's taken the next step (ie - continues building on how he ended last season) and Streit struggles with that much time and defensively then Gus may become his partner with Streit sliding back to the 3rd pairing and playing on the PP.

sobrien 07-04-2013 01:34 AM

We've seen his highs and his lows. I'm willing to take the chance on him that he finally keeps it at a high level. Beast mode Coburn > everything else we got.

people talk about Vinny being charged up after being bought out. Maybe the defense should be charged up after the last two seasons; two years of scrutiny, 3 seasons of acquisitions to bolster the back end, and no Bryz to blame it on anymore. Maybe they'll kick themselves in the ***** this year. Plus it looks like Pronger will be around the team more this season to kick them in the ass too.

Striiker 07-04-2013 01:36 AM

I think people like to overreact about him. He's been pretty good up until last season. Even then, everyone struggled for some of the season so I'm not going to be to critical about what happened during a shortened season where he was also injured. Another huge thing about his play was that for a lot of the time he was stuck with Gervais...

I think if he is paired with Streit he will be fine and people will forget about this season.

Alchemy 07-04-2013 01:47 AM

I don't mind him. He's not som scrub but I just want more consistency.

Jtown 07-04-2013 01:58 AM

He is one of the few flyers who has been blessed with the physical gifts to defend some of the best players in the game. He plays hard minutes and at 4.5 million I believe he is a bargain. He is not perfect but when you look around the league there are not too many players with his skill set and athletic ability , and none of them are getting 4.5 mill.

TheDrizzle81 07-04-2013 02:17 AM

I like him.

JoeFlyer 07-04-2013 06:35 AM

There was probably a time to trade him (Entry Draft time) but by keeping him and signing Vinny I don't see why you'd get rid of him. He's a good player, $4.5m might be a bit over an overpayment but you can't have every player on their exact value. Is he .5m better than Mesz? Yeah.

In a top 4 where he is playing with either Timonen or Streit I think he'll do exactly what we need of him. I don't really think there is a problem with our top 4 (Timonen, Schenn, Streit, Coburn) it's just not long term with the two puckmovers being old. Grossmann and Mesz are, as I see it luxuries at 5/6th spot and should really be the ones on the block. If nether had their injury problems there'd be a lot more interest. If Grossmann could stay healthy I'd probably prefer him to take Coburn's spot if he did go but I think that's a counterproductive move. Guess it depends what you can get in return.

Curufinwe 07-04-2013 07:46 AM

If he has another poor season even after being relieved of primary puck mover duties on his pairing by playing with Streit or Gustafsson, then you have to look at trading him. But selling low on him this offseason is a really bad idea.

RJ8812 07-04-2013 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striiker (Post 68603009)
I think people like to overreact about him. He's been pretty good up until last season. Even then, everyone struggled for some of the season so I'm not going to be to critical about what happened during a shortened season where he was also injured. Another huge thing about his play was that for a lot of the time he was stuck with Gervais...

I think if he is paired with Streit he will be fine and people will forget about this season.

absolutely not

he has regressed ever since he got that eye injury. he may have streaks of playing well, but those streaks have become few and far between as time has gone on

At this point I would actually rather trade Coburn over Mez becuase not only would he give us a better return, but with Mez's contract up at the end of the season, it would free up an additional $4.5m.

As long as the return is good, I would move him without question.

BernieParent 07-04-2013 07:52 AM

The biggest upside of the current Flyers defense is that the projected third pairing of Grossmann - Gustafsson can arguably handle bigger minutes than what normally passes for a bottom pair. This means options for Laviolette, who will hopefully reward the best defensemen. I think it would be a good thing for Coburn to be reminded that he needs to earn his ice time and not just be automatically awarded top-pairing status despite mediocre play.

I'm cautiously optimistic that pairing with a better puck-mover will simplify Coburn's game and, with some fierce competition for minutes, he'll give a stronger showing this season than last.

Prongo 07-04-2013 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeFlyer (Post 68605807)
There was probably a time to trade him (Entry Draft time) but by keeping him and signing Vinny I don't see why you'd get rid of him. He's a good player, $4.5m might be a bit over an overpayment but you can't have every player on their exact value. Is he .5m better than Mesz? Yeah.

In a top 4 where he is playing with either Timonen or Streit I think he'll do exactly what we need of him. I don't really think there is a problem with our top 4 (Timonen, Schenn, Streit, Coburn) it's just not long term with the two puckmovers being old. Grossmann and Mesz are, as I see it luxuries at 5/6th spot and should really be the ones on the block. If nether had their injury problems there'd be a lot more interest. If Grossmann could stay healthy I'd probably prefer him to take Coburn's spot if he did go but I think that's a counterproductive move. Guess it depends what you can get in return.

There is still a ton of rumors that Edmonton and the Flyers are still in conversations. If you honestly look at the free agent market and other available names, Coburn pretty much is the best of the crop. Edler is the only one who is better, but I don't really think Vancouver is shopping him.

I really hope it's a major deal with Edmonton, just so Hoer can get the main boards all scornfully swearing our teams name yet again.

BernieParent 07-04-2013 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prongo (Post 68606953)
There is still a ton of rumors that Edmonton and the Flyers are still in conversations. If you honestly look at the free agent market and other available names, Coburn pretty much is the best of the crop. Edler is the only one who is better, but I don't really think Vancouver is shopping him.

I really hope it's a major deal with Edmonton, just so Hoer can get the main boards all scornfully swearing our teams name yet again.

It will be interesting to continue to track this, even if the Lecavalier signing has all but squelched the need to bring in a top-6 forward. Plus, I can't see Holmgren after having added veterans like Streit and Lecavalier downgrading Coburn to prospects / picks.

DrinkFightFlyers 07-04-2013 08:03 AM

Top four defenseman that people underrate on these boards.

Prongo 07-04-2013 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BernieParent (Post 68607059)
It will be interesting to continue to track this, even if the Lecavalier signing has all but squelched the need to bring in a top-6 forward. Plus, I can't see Holmgren – after having added veterans like Streit and Lecavalier – downgrading Coburn to prospects / picks.

The one thing that is interesting about this rumor is what has been released and what is in the dark. There were a plethora of rumors saying Paajarvi was part of the deal, but Homer didn't want that(Dreger said it has to be a better player). Then a leak about the Flyers wanted 3 second rounders(56+57+2014 2nd rounder)+ something on top of that. Now the latest leak is Coburn is just part of a major deal being discussed between the two teams.

People think I am being overly optimistic(and sometimes I do get carried away, but who doesnt), but I want Eberle. If you pair his name with the Dreger rumor, Eberle is literally the only forward that makes sense from our POV. They don't have a forward other than him that will peak our interest(NO to Hemsky and Horcoff.)(also I mean they are willing to move, Hall, RNH, Yak are off limits most likely) Coburn plays 22-23 mins a night and solid PK. Shoot, Edmonton might even want to give him a try on the PP. I understand HF posters think Coburn, since he doesn't put up 40 points, don't think he is valuable. People have to understand you don't trade a top 4 defender of the caliber of Coburn for just nothing, Homer's asking price is high as the sky right now it seems.

Also Bob Mac was on TSN radio and said other teams are also calling the Flyers asking about him. If Homer is determined to deal with Edmonton, that helps raise the price. If Coburn is in high demand, the price will only continue to rise. Hopefully Homer is patient and waits out all the crappy offer until a team gets serious. I think that will come during the weekend or even early next week, when teams miss out on FA's and other deals.

To add to this as well, Edmonton is going hard after Clarkson, they really want some jam in there top 6. Hartnell was rumored a long time ago to be on the move there, but the deal fell apart. Maybe something is really brewing between the two teams, I hope so.

DecadesofFutility 07-04-2013 09:04 AM

Coburn lost 2nd pairing spot
 
While I appreciate the work of Coburn for the last couple of years
he should never have been resigned at that cap amount.
He is not physical enough as a defensive defenseman and
he is not an offensive defenseman and will never become one.

We have enough defensive defenseman (Schenn, Grossman)
for top 2 pairings. He is paid too much for 3rd pairing position.
He has been replaced first by Schenn, and second by Streit.
He is no longer needed, and he needs to be replaced by a younger
more offensive minded defenseman.

We will be one offensive defenseman short when Timmo retires.
We should try to add a PMD by trading Coburn and an asset.

Prongo 07-04-2013 09:12 AM

You really need to stop. I proved to you before Coburn is a 2nd pairing defender and you said stats could be skewed to make a player look better.

If Coburn is such a ****** defender why is MacT and Edmonton desperately trying to trade for him? As well as other teams in the league(Carolina, Calgary).

What's even better is you think Grossmann is the better defenseman than Coburn, just reiterating you have no clue.

GingerFetish 07-04-2013 10:42 AM

We need to keep Coburn.
No question.

CS 07-04-2013 10:49 AM

Trading Coburn, and not getting a realistic replacement would be like turning around and trading Mason right now...

Stupid.

GoneFullHextall 07-04-2013 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ8812 (Post 68606881)
absolutely not

he has regressed ever since he got that eye injury. he may have streaks of playing well, but those streaks have become few and far between as time has gone on

At this point I would actually rather trade Coburn over Mez becuase not only would he give us a better return, but with Mez's contract up at the end of the season, it would free up an additional $4.5m.

As long as the return is good, I would move him without question.

i agree with this. He is inconsistent. Sure when he is on and motivated and plays angry he is very good. But far to often for me we see a guy with all the tools to be a top defenseman and he makes so many mistakes both mental and physical. Both with the puck and without it.
At this point of his career he is what he is. A inconsistent middle pairing guy. Some nights he is going to piss you off with his stupid play, other nights you are going to say wow where is this guy every night.
That said i dont want to trade him for the sake of trading him. If there is a hockey trade to be made I am all for it. If not then I guess we will have to deal with what he is.
Streit is not good enough defensively to make up for Coburns defensive lapses.

duffy9748 07-04-2013 11:11 AM

I'd say he is capable of being a top 4 defender on a Stanley Cup champion. He's still reasonably young and you won't get anyone better via free agency at 4.5 million. It would be a mistake to trade him unless a better defenseman is replacing him.

achdumeingute 07-04-2013 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prongo (Post 68609217)
What's even better is you think Grossmann is the better defenseman than Coburn, just reiterating you have no clue.

I have to disagree with you. For what he is, I think Grossmann is the better defenseman. He is cheaper, blocks a ton more shots, is plenty physical, and isn't any worse than Coburn in his own end. He also has a better shot than Coburn. Every single night, I know what we are getting from Grossmann. I can't say the same thing with Coburn.

Coburn is pretty much a giant enigma. The failure of him to turn into a #1 hasn't helped. He's sooooo inconsistent. One night he plays like 6'5. The next he plays like he is 5'5. His shot for his size is pretty weak. He can't play the point on the PP. The only thing Coburn really has over Grossmann is that he is a little better skater and he is capable of carrying the puck up the ice on the rush. I wouldn't confuse him with someone who excels at that though.

He's a good player, but I think Schenn and Grossmann make him expendable, and thats why his name is coming up.

achdumeingute 07-04-2013 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren (Post 68613391)
Streit is not good enough defensively to make up for Coburns defensive lapses.

I think they will end up being paired together, and it will be the other way around. Streit will be the roamer, and Coburn will be asked to play a more simple stay at home game.

Larry44 07-04-2013 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jtown (Post 68603345)
He is one of the few flyers who has been blessed with the physical gifts to defend some of the best players in the game. He plays hard minutes and at 4.5 million I believe he is a bargain. He is not perfect but when you look around the league there are not too many players with his skill set and athletic ability , and none of them are getting 4.5 mill.

Thank you, sums up my view perfectly.

Keep Coburn.

Trade Talbot and his pal Bruno Gervais to St. Louis for Halak.

Off season complete.


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