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tuckrr 07-04-2013 01:39 AM

the defensive debacle
 
Let me start our by saying that I think our defensive predicament is a good one to have. I have never in my life seen a team go half a season without losing one of their 6 defenseman (if not more)

That said, here is where we stand:
Timonen - Schenn
Streit - Coburn
Grossmann - meszaros

Gus + other stuff

Now here is the key: operating under the assumption that mason is in fact our starter, and that he can play very well too. What should we do?

1. Keep meszaros & coburn (how would you squeeze the cap?)

2. Trade one of them (and for what/when in the season?)

3. Do something off the board (try and be realistic)

All I will say about my opinion is that I believe meszaros will be healthy, and would do well on the 3rd line. (Where he won the barry ashbee award)

Lets do our best to keep it civil!

Jtown 07-04-2013 02:08 AM

Mez would do very well on the 3rd line. when healthy he has shown he is quite capable of being a responsible defender and providing us some offensive spark.

However he is the number 1 candidate on this team to hit the road.

After this year , we will only have 1 defense man who is under 28 years of age.

That is why we need to insert Gus into the lineup full time. He played big minutes for us last year and showed that he is quite capable of handling those minutes and provides us with a skill set that is unique to him and him alone on our defensive unit. He is by far the most capable skater we have and is able to handle the puck very well in the ozone.

With his play for us at the end of the season, and his breakout performance at the world championships I think its safe to say he is not only in our top 6, but will be getting top 4 minutes at some point this year. We need him to establish himself as legitimate NHLer.

Next year I see us going with something like this

Gus Schenn
Streit Coburn
Grossman - ?

dookie88 07-04-2013 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuckrr (Post 68603051)
1. Keep meszaros & coburn (how would you squeeze the cap?)

No need to squeeze anything, right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuckrr (Post 68603051)
2. Trade one of them (and for what/when in the season?)

If you can get a young defender with top4 upside (Klefbom, ...) and a little something, I'd move Coburn.
If you won't get that keep both and trade Meszaros mid-season when he regained some value.
But ultimately I think one needs to go, since we really have to get Gustaffson some playing time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuckrr (Post 68603051)
3. Do something off the board (try and be realistic)

With Streit here, I think we won't go after a #1.
It'll be more of an effort by committee.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuckrr (Post 68603051)
All I will say about my opinion is that I believe meszaros will be healthy, and would do well on the 3rd line. (Where he won the barry ashbee award)

Absolutely, but there are only 6 spots.

tuckrr 07-04-2013 03:23 AM

Well if timonen does retire next year, mesz could be worth hanging onto. Gus will almost certainly see time this year...even with 6 guys ahead of him.

But maybe I just don't see Gus as having as high a ceiling as others here

tuckrr 07-04-2013 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dookie88 (Post 68604293)
No need to squeeze anything, right now.


If you can get a young defender with top4 upside (Klefbom, ...) and a little something, I'd move Coburn.
If you won't get that keep both and trade Meszaros mid-season when he regained some value.
But ultimately I think one needs to go, since we really have to get Gustaffson some playing time.


With Streit here, I think we won't go after a #1.
It'll be more of an effort by committee.


Absolutely, but there are only 6 spots.

Well put.



Would you still trade mesz if say timonen was hurt mid season?

dookie88 07-04-2013 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuckrr (Post 68604349)
Well put.



Would you still trade mesz if say timonen was hurt mid season?

Depending on how well Mez has come back by then.
If he plays like he did in 10-11, I wouldn't trade him at all and would try to resign him.
If he slowed down significantly he won't be able to take Timonen's minutes and I would then rather give those to Gustaffson (depending on how he looked). Mez is also a UFA after next season, so that plan to trade him for a second round pick or a third plus something else might not work at all.

tuckrr 07-04-2013 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dookie88 (Post 68604671)
Depending on how well Mez has come back by then.
If he plays like he did in 10-11, I wouldn't trade him at all and would try to resign him.
If he slowed down significantly he won't be able to take Timonen's minutes and I would then rather give those to Gustaffson (depending on how he looked). Mez is also a UFA after next season, so that plan to trade him for a second round pick or a third plus something else might not work at all.

See that's what really bothers me about trading mesz or Coburn -- their value is at an all time low.
It'd be a shame to let either go for scraps...

DecadesofFutility 07-04-2013 09:15 AM

Bomb Away !!!
 
I trade both Coburn and Mezzaros.

Coburn is not needed on this team anymore.
Schenn has replaced him on top pairing.
Grossman is fine on second pairing with Streit.

Mezzaros is fragile and will get injured again.
He will never regain the value of what we gave up to acquire him.
Better to cut our cap costs and get what we can for him.

I would try and move both of them.
We need to acquire for a young developing PMD for the future.
Coburn + an asset might get us a good young player.
We have Luridsen, Manning etc... for backup defensive defenders.

No need to tie up that much cap on players who are 3rd pairing defenders.

Dirty but Good 07-04-2013 09:27 AM

I think Coburn can be moved if another team overpays for him which could happen given all the demand for him.

I think if the Flyers think Mez is fragile and unhealthy no team would want him and if the Flyers think he's going to be healthy they won't want to move him.

I just hope they don't move a young forward for a D-man in a win now mentality. I'd be perfectly fine with the current blue-liners come opening night.

tuckrr 07-05-2013 01:48 AM

Well if we're in a win-now mentality, who can you get for under 4 mil? Meszaros (when healthy) is a sound NHLer.
We'd have to give up a 1st to replace him I think.

I for one think we should stop trading our 1sts...

Curufinwe 07-05-2013 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility (Post 68609319)
I trade both Coburn and Mezzaros.

Coburn is not needed on this team anymore.
Schenn has replaced him on top pairing.
Grossman is fine on second pairing with Streit.

Mezzaros is fragile and will get injured again.
He will never regain the value of what we gave up to acquire him.
Better to cut our cap costs and get what we can for him.

I would try and move both of them.
We need to acquire for a young developing PMD for the future.
Coburn + an asset might get us a good young player.
We have Luridsen, Manning etc... for backup defensive defenders.

No need to tie up that much cap on players who are 3rd pairing defenders.

Grossmann is fragile and will get injured again. Coburn should be the guy to play with Streit.

CS 07-05-2013 07:46 AM

Are we going to have a healthy 4.00m Meszaros sit in the press-box in case of an injury?

We can theoretically afford to do so?

Or do we trade him?

Or do we sit Gustafsson and potentially screw with his development even more?

I know what I'd do if I were the GM, but this is unfortunately not my call.

Pantokrator 07-05-2013 09:10 AM

I want to keep all of them and then let Mez walk at the end of the season. If the Flyers are not in a playoff position at the trade deadline, trade him then for something small.

My fear is that injuries will take away at least one of the defensemen for a large chunk of the season. If we get rid of Mez or Coburn right now, and there is an injury, who steps into the #6 position? Gus needs minutes for sure, which I think he'll get once injuries happen. But who steps up after him? Are y'all comfortable going into the season with both Gus and Manning/Bourdon/Lauridsson in the lineup?

If Timonen gets hurt, suddenly the lineup looks like (in no real order):
Streit Schenn
Gus Grossman
Lauridssom Mez/Coburn

That's not a great defense.

I'd rather let Gus get a full year (which he should with injuries) and bring up another rookie d-man next season.

CS 07-05-2013 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pantokrator (Post 68694287)
I want to keep all of them and then let Mez walk at the end of the season. If the Flyers are not in a playoff position at the trade deadline, trade him then for something small.

My fear is that injuries will take away at least one of the defensemen for a large chunk of the season. If we get rid of Mez or Coburn right now, and there is an injury, who steps into the #6 position? Gus needs minutes for sure, which I think he'll get once injuries happen. But who steps up after him? Are y'all comfortable going into the season with both Gus and Manning/Bourdon/Lauridsson in the lineup?

If Timonen gets hurt, suddenly the lineup looks like (in no real order):
Streit Schenn
Gus Grossman
Lauridssom Mez/Coburn

That's not a great defense.

I'd rather let Gus get a full year (which he should with injuries) and bring up another rookie d-man next season.

No...if Timonen got hurt now, our defense would look like this:

Streit - Coburn
Gustafsson - Schenn
Meszaros - Grossmann

If we traded Meszaros, and Timonen got hurt...it would look like this:

Streit - Coburn
Gustafsson - Schenn
Gervais - Grossmann

Now, if somebody else got hurt, THEN it would be Manning or Lauridsen...

Three people have to go down in one way or another for Lauridsen to even get a sniff at the roster.

tuckrr 07-05-2013 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CS (Post 68694673)
No...if Timonen got hurt now, our defense would look like this:

Streit - Coburn
Gustafsson - Schenn
Meszaros - Grossmann

If we traded Meszaros, and Timonen got hurt...it would look like this:

Streit - Coburn
Gustafsson - Schenn
Gervais - Grossmann

Now, if somebody else got hurt, THEN it would be Manning or Lauridsen...

Three people have to go down in one way or another for Lauridsen to even get a sniff at the roster.

How many went down last year?

Stranger Danger 07-05-2013 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuckrr (Post 68773119)
How many went down last year?

Last year was a freakish thing. Doubt very much it happens again.

JGalt 07-05-2013 04:12 PM

Honestly at this point, I don't move anyone out unless there's a real upgrade out there and I just don't see one right now. I like the idea of holding onto this depth and Mez's 4m goes away next year regardless or If it comes to it maybe he can earn back some trade value by the deadline.

SolidSnakeUS 07-05-2013 04:15 PM

For those saying that Mez should stay, it's not so much Mez being bad (he's fine when he's healthy), it's the fact that it screws over Gus for playing time.

whatthef 07-05-2013 04:24 PM

Quote:

Frank Seravalli ‏@DNFlyers: Interesting Holmgren goes out of his way to say they're counting a lot on Coburn and Meszaros next season.

Frank Seravalli ‏@DNFlyers: He followed that by saying "never say never," when asked about a defensive trade. "But right now, we feel very good."
So I expect at least on of them to be traded by this time next week.

Ilya Bryzastor 07-05-2013 04:32 PM

Timonen - Coburn
Streit - Schenn
Grossman - Mezaros

Definitly an upgrade , Would love to see gustaffson this year if Mez or somebody goes down.

CS 07-05-2013 05:13 PM

This makes me sad. Gustafsson has done everything right.

I don't think he deserves to sit in Adirondack another season.

Ilya Bryzastor 07-05-2013 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CS (Post 68786539)
This makes me sad. Gustafsson has done everything right.

I don't think he deserves to sit in Adirondack another season.

I know I think he is ready too , but one more year in the AHL would do nothing but benefit Gus , and with Mez probably not returning after next season , he will have a spot.

RoDu 07-05-2013 06:00 PM

Gus could beat Mez out in camp, or Mez could get hurt

RoDu 07-05-2013 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilya Bryzastor (Post 68792093)
I know I think he is ready too , but one more year in the AHL would do nothing but benefit Gus , and with Mez probably not returning after next season , he will have a spot.

Does Gus not have Bryz's agent? An agent, who probably hates us right now.

Ilya Bryzastor 07-05-2013 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDu (Post 68792311)
Gus could beat Mez out in camp, or Mez could get hurt

Yea I know , but as of right now I think Mez takes that spot , but we all know there is a high chance that Mez will get hurt and Gus would fill that spot. And yea he could possibly beat out Mez out in camp. Either way you look at it , it is a good position to be in.


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