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-   -   Has the hockey world lost its mind? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1461931)

Guru Meditation 07-04-2013 06:12 PM

Has the hockey world lost its mind?
 
I thought the players lost the lockout battle.

Now we're looking at secondary-level guys asking for the moon. Steve Weiss reportedly wants 6 million a year. For 5 years. Valtteri Filppula wants 5.5 for 6-7 years. Clarkson and Horton want 6+ for 5+ years. With the possible exception of Horton (and I'm not particularly certain of it), those guys are 2nd liners. Bonus factoid: Martin St. Louis almost outscored all 4 of those players put together. If they get what they're demanding, 3/4 of them will make more than MSL, and all of them for more years.

On top of dollars, why does every single contract have such ridiculous term? What has happened in the hockey world to make every UFA contract a lifetime deal? Didn't players lose their leverage, not gain it?

It's annoying for my team in particular because they're about to be a very young team, and so they need roster spots in 3 years, but yet also have cap space to spend here and now. In today's market, you can be willing to pay 5-6 million and come up with nothing because you aren't willing to go above 2 or 3 years.

But outside of my own team, is it going to go on like this, or is this a situation specific to the buyouts? and, well... CAN it go on like this? It seems like not everybody can get those sorts of deals. Even if the dollar amount comes down and the term stays, doesn't that radically change how you build a team now? I feel like it does.

bleedblue1223 07-04-2013 06:15 PM

Lots of free agents will be disappointed.

SimplySensational 07-04-2013 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 (Post 68650991)
Lots of free agents will be disappointed.

I doubt it. Its what we say every year and then some stupid long contract that is 1.5m over what they should pay for even just a couple years. And there's multiple ones.

TOML 07-04-2013 06:17 PM

Musical chairs. Jason Arnott is still waiting for a decent contract too.

Gigantor The Goalie 07-04-2013 06:18 PM

I think a lot of free agents are going to end up like Biron and others that held out for months and months looking for major money then having to settle for peanuts

Reign Nateo 07-04-2013 06:18 PM

With the amount of times the NHL has changed the rules, I'm not sure anyone knows what the hell is going on anymore.

Flyerss 07-04-2013 06:19 PM

The Ducks started all of this by giving Getzlaf and Perry 8m

bleedblue1223 07-04-2013 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimplySensational (Post 68651101)
I doubt it. Its what we say every year and then some stupid long contract that is 1.5m over what they should pay.

Except this year the cap is going down and teams are looking to cut salary, not add it.

I think a few get crazy deals with the few teams that will spend a bunch, but others will be in for some disappointment.

TheZec 07-04-2013 06:21 PM

It only reflects the normal salary structure in everydays life. The most coveted ufas will see their demands met, while the lower tiers will be stuck with wathever the teams have left to spend for them. I could very well see a scenario in wich for nearly every team 3-5 players will take half the teams payroll.

Tawnos 07-04-2013 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru Meditation (Post 68650731)
I thought the players lost the lockout battle.

You were wrong.

The players kept the Cap the same for 12-13 and got a guarantee that it will never go below what it was in 11-12. In real dollars, rather than in percentages, that's a huge win for the players.

Kb21 07-04-2013 06:24 PM

I really hope these gms smarten up like the ones in baseball. It only takes 1 fool to ruin the market for everyone.

MatthewBarnabysTears 07-04-2013 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru Meditation (Post 68650731)
I thought the players lost the lockout battle.

Now we're looking at secondary-level guys asking for the moon. Steve Weiss reportedly wants 6 million a year. For 5 years. Valtteri Filppula wants 5.5 for 6-7 years. Clarkson and Horton want 6+ for 5+ years. With the possible exception of Horton (and I'm not particularly certain of it), those guys are 2nd liners. Bonus factoid: Martin St. Louis almost outscored all 4 of those players put together. If they get what they're demanding, 3/4 of them will make more than MSL, and all of them for more years.

On top of dollars, why does every single contract have such ridiculous term? What has happened in the hockey world to make every UFA contract a lifetime deal? Didn't players lose their leverage, not gain it?

It's annoying for my team in particular because they're about to be a very young team, and so they need roster spots in 3 years, but yet also have cap space to spend here and now. In today's market, you can be willing to pay 5-6 million and come up with nothing because you aren't willing to go above 2 or 3 years.

But outside of my own team, is it going to go on like this, or is this a situation specific to the buyouts? and, well... CAN it go on like this? It seems like not everybody can get those sorts of deals. Even if the dollar amount comes down and the term stays, doesn't that radically change how you build a team now? I feel like it does.

why does it keep surprising people that signing free agents comes at a premium? free agents are sought after because some other team spent their resources developing them, and there's no reason to sacrifice talent. free agent talent should command a rate above what similar players are paid if they're acquired via trade or signed as RFAs.

JeffMangum 07-04-2013 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyerss (Post 68651319)
The Ducks started all of this by giving Getzlaf and Perry 8m

That's 100% false.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kb21 (Post 68651749)
I really hope these gms smarten up like the ones in baseball. It only takes 1 fool to ruin the market for everyone.

Agreed. Just DON'T GIVE IN TO THEIR DEMANDS. It's not ****ing hard.

bleedblue1223 07-04-2013 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kb21 (Post 68651749)
I really hope these gms smarten up like the ones in baseball. It only takes 1 fool to ruin the market for everyone.

The baseball ones haven't gotten any smarter. Look at the A-Rod and Pujols deals.

Islander Prophet 07-04-2013 06:29 PM

I agree with u, the contracts that are being signed are absolutely insane. The new compliance buy-out rule is a joke and the GMs (not to brag but Garth Snow is one of the few that never fell for these scams) are all going along with it.

I dont know what to say except that this offseason has been a circus. Cant wait to see the money that's gonna be thrown around at these UFAs

CanadianLov3 07-04-2013 06:29 PM

I think they're just begging for another lockout.

Telos 07-04-2013 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimplySensational (Post 68651101)
I doubt it. Its what we say every year and then some stupid long contract that is 1.5m over what they should pay for even just a couple years. And there's multiple ones.

Some may get their contracts, but there will definitely be a lot of disappointed, left over, free agents taking short term deals. With the cap going down and all these contenders now pressed against the ceiling, there just isn't a lot of room to maneuver.

Marlo Stanfield 07-04-2013 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyerss (Post 68651319)
The Ducks started all of this by giving Getzlaf and Perry 8m

You mean giving out a proper contract within the guidelines of the CBA? Yeah, definitely.

Flair Hay 07-04-2013 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyerss (Post 68651319)
The Ducks started all of this by giving Getzlaf and Perry 8m

Pretty sure someone would have gone possibly a million or more in AAV if they made it to free agency. Ducks did what they had to do to keep their best two players.

vanwest 07-04-2013 06:33 PM

GM's will overpay free agents. The next CBA will permit compliance buy outs. They will be bought out. The GM's will overpay free agents......
And round and round we go.

Ched Brosky 07-04-2013 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telos (Post 68652387)
Some may get their contracts, but there will definitely be a lot of disappointed, left over, free agents taking short term deals. With the cap going down and all these contenders now pressed against the ceiling, there just isn't a lot of room to maneuver.

Perfect scenario for the canucks. Let all the big names get their long term big money deals taking up most of other teams cap space leaving the canucks a good player at 2-3M on a short term

GiggityGiggityGoo 07-04-2013 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanadianLov3 (Post 68652235)
I think they're just begging for another lockout.

This. Hopefully Bettman won't be around in 10 years.

TorstenFrings 07-04-2013 06:40 PM

What the teams wanted was for the cap to more accurately reflect what the spend, so that there would not be a huge divide between teams trying top cheat the cap to pay players more for lower cap hits and the other teams trying to get higher cap hits for less money.

Players like Perry getting 8m+ per is not the problem, them getting 12m+ per with a 5m cap hit and being traded at 40 for conditional picks to the islanders was.

It is going to take an adjustment period in which most star contracts will look like **** compared to MLS.

Regardless of who "lost" this was never going to come down harshly on the above average players. It never does.

Leafs03 07-04-2013 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyerss (Post 68651319)
The Ducks started all of this by giving Getzlaf and Perry 8m

A flyers fan says this.. Bryz, you remember that guy??

hawksfan79 07-04-2013 06:46 PM

At the end of the day, these guys are trying to win. If they think overpaying for Player X gets them that much closer to the Cup, they're gonna do it. It happens all the time and free agency and it will continue to happen until the end of time.


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