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Canadiens1958 07-05-2013 02:58 PM

1950 Stanley Cup Finals
 
1950 saw a very interesting Stanley Cup Final series between the Detroit Red Wings and the New York Rangers that went into overtime of the seventh game before Pete Babando scored to give the Red Wings the Stanley Cup.

Background. The red Wings had beaten the three time SC Champion Maple Leafs despite losing Gordie Howe with a skull fracture in the first game of the semi finals. The Rangers had upset the Montreal Canadiens. this proved to be very problematic since the circus was booked into MSG during the time dedicated to the finals so an alternative venue had to be found. The final solution was playing game 1 in Detroit, games 2 & 3 in Toronto at MLG then the remaining games in Detroit.

Game 1:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...7334%2C5411808

link includes an interesting column by Dink Carroll about how hockey is played and how the star players are treated.

Game 2:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...7044%2C5700164

Game 3:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...7051%2C6030863

Game 4:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...7132%2C6318749

Game 5:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...6958%2C6626213

Games 6 and 7 held Sat and Sunday so they were reported on Monday:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...7266%2C6942384

Killion 07-05-2013 03:45 PM

Interesting storys on the 2 goalies. Harry Lumley was traded shortly after posting a 1.85GAA with several Shutouts to Chicago, replaced by Terry Sawchuk, another Wunderkind as Harry had been when playing his first NHL game at 17. Chicago eventually trading Lumley to Toronto where once again he enjoyed a great deal of success. Chuck Rayner of the Rangers won the Hart Trophy in 1950, outstanding performances through the Playoffs & against Detroit, the 7th & deciding game going into OT. Rayner, nicknamed Bonnie Prince Charlie eventually replaced by the up & coming Gump Worsley in New York. Rayner was noted for playing the puck (actually attempting to score on several occasions). Jacques Plante taking notice (in addition to it being born from necessity, though not much not new under the sun) while with the Citadelles, Royals & Bisons before sticking for good with the Habs in 53, the same year Worsley replaced Rayner.

Kyle McMahon 07-05-2013 06:02 PM

One of two SC Finals to be decided in Game 7 OT.

It's strange that virtually no mention of these two instances is ever made on broadcasts or elsewhere in the media during the final. Game 7 OT has a sort of mystical reverence to it, and we hear about the heroes who scored the deciding goals constantly. Pat Lafontaine, Lanny McDonald, too many men, Matteau....many others. But few people would know Pete Babando or Tony Leswick, even though they're the only two players to decide the Cup in that manner.

Sadekuuro 07-05-2013 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon (Post 68792575)
One of two SC Finals to be decided in Game 7 OT.

It's strange that virtually no mention of these two instances is ever made on broadcasts or elsewhere in the media during the final. Game 7 OT has a sort of mystical reverence to it, and we hear about the heroes who scored the deciding goals constantly. Pat Lafontaine, Lanny McDonald, too many men, Matteau....many others. But few people would know Pete Babando or Tony Leswick, even though they're the only two players to decide the Cup in that manner.

I think the main reason must be that they took place in 1950 and 1954. Is there even a decent clip of the Leswick goal in existence? I searched some years back and only found one, in which one could hardly see what was happening. Supposedly the shot was nothing special, but Doug Harvey got a glove on it and inadvertently redirected it into his own net.

Kyle McMahon 07-06-2013 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadekuuro (Post 68797911)
I think the main reason must be that they took place in 1950 and 1954. Is there even a decent clip of the Leswick goal in existence? I searched some years back and only found one, in which one could hardly see what was happening. Supposedly the shot was nothing special, but Doug Harvey got a glove on it and inadvertently redirected it into his own net.

The lack of video footage would certainly be a reason, although we all know about Bill Barilko's goal, and as far as I know no video exists for that one. We're reminded routinely while watching baseball of Babe Ruth's called shot from a World Series in the 1930s. Gene Sarazen's double eagle at the Masters at about the same time. Some occurrences are famous enough that they've been passed down through generations without the aid of live video. You'd think the Cup-winning goal in Game 7 OT would also fit into that category. I'd say the Red Wings being the victors as opposed to Toronto or Montreal is also a contributing factor.

Sadekuuro 07-06-2013 05:36 PM

Oddly, even older Red Wings fans never talk about them. I've long wanted to know more about those two series, but there seems to be very little lore surrounding them.

Killion 07-06-2013 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadekuuro (Post 68857477)
Oddly, even older Red Wings fans never talk about them. I've long wanted to know more about those two series, but there seems to be very little lore surrounding them.

Well, heres a Mystery for you about 1950's Stanley Cup winning Red Wings. As you know, Harry Apple Cheeks Lumley was in net throughout the Playoffs, while Terry Sawchuk was in the minors leading Detroits farm club Indianapolis to the Calder Cup. Shortly afterwards of course, Sawchuk promoted, Lumley traded....

So answer this one: who was Lumley's backup or standby in Detroit if he'd gotten hurt with Sawchuk in Indianapolis? Some guy, according to wikipedia by the name of Harry MacQuestion. Wiki goes on to give this Harry MacQuestion birth & death dates, that he'd played in the minors, and though he didnt play a game in 1950 his name was inscribed on the Stanley Cup but then removed in 1957 when maintenance was done to it, the ring removed now housed at the HHOF bearing Harry MacQuestions name, buried in some vault no doubt...

Well, good luck finding anything out about one "Harry MacQuestion" on hockeydb, hockeyreference, anywhere. This guy doesnt exist, never did. So who made this up & why is their page on him in wiki with this elaborate charade? Lefty Wilson was the trainer & a spare goalie in Detroit, and had Lumley been hurt, Lefty there wouldve been called on. Why, that very name, "Harry MacQuestion", sounds like the handle for some villain in the 60's Batman TV series or something. So figure that one out? Huh? I kid you not. Right there in wiki.

Canadiens1958 07-06-2013 06:29 PM

Harry McQueston
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Killion (Post 68859439)
Well, heres a Mystery for you about 1950's Stanley Cup winning Red Wings. As you know, Harry Apple Cheeks Lumley was in net throughout the Playoffs, while Terry Sawchuk was in the minors leading Detroits farm club Indianapolis to the Calder Cup. Shortly afterwards of course, Sawchuk promoted, Lumley traded....

So answer this one: who was Lumley's backup or standby in Detroit if he'd gotten hurt with Sawchuk in Indianapolis? Some guy, according to wikipedia by the name of Harry MacQuestion. Wiki goes on to give this Harry MacQuestion birth & death dates, that he'd played in the minors, and though he didnt play a game in 1950 his name was inscribed on the Stanley Cup but then removed in 1957 when maintenance was done to it, the ring removed now housed at the HHOF bearing Harry MacQuestions name, buried in some vault no doubt...

Well, good luck finding anything out about one "Harry MacQuestion" on hockeydb, hockeyreference, anywhere. This guy doesnt exist, never did. So who made this up & why is their page on him in wiki with this elaborate charade? Lefty Wilson was the trainer & a spare goalie in Detroit, and had Lumley been hurt, Lefty there wouldve been called on. Why, that very name, "Harry MacQuestion", sounds like the handle for some villain in the 60's Batman TV series or something. So figure that one out? Huh? I kid you not. Right there in wiki.

Perhaps Harry McQueston, career minor leaguer, 1949-50 USHL:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid[]=14237

Killion 07-06-2013 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 (Post 68860027)
Perhaps Harry McQueston, career minor leaguer, 1949-50 USHL:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid[]=14237

Theres nothing there in your link C58. Just the hockeydb template. So I re-typed the name dropping the 'a' in MacQuestion to Harry McQuestion. Nada. Nothing. Jolly Jack Adams was up to something here. Wiki for whatever reason, well, theres no real Moderation nor peer review on that site so theoretically you could prolly create all kinds of stuff. Ergodic literature. Copious footnoots referencing books, movies, people, places & things that dont exist. Links to sites that just come up ERROR 503 or whatever. What you just did here with the link to hockeydb: blank frikin page.

Canadiens1958 07-06-2013 07:00 PM

Try Again
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Killion (Post 68860937)
Theres nothing there in your link C58. Just the hockeydb template. So I re-typed the name dropping the 'a' in MacQuestion to Harry McQuestion. Nada. Nothing. Jolly Jack Adams was up to something here. Wiki for whatever reason, well, theres no real Moderation nor peer review on that site so theoretically you could prolly create all kinds of stuff. Ergodic literature. Copious footnoots referencing books, movies, people, places & things that dont exist. Links to sites that just come up ERROR 503 or whatever. What you just did here with the link to hockeydb: blank frikin page.

Try again:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=14237

works.

Killion 07-06-2013 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 (Post 68861321)

Alright, excellent. Mystery solved. Guy did exist afterall. Never heard of him. Not a name youd forget. Toronto Lad to boot. I see he finished up his career in the Scottish National League 1952'ish. Prolly went back there to try & find out who'd stolen the last half of his surname...

Big Phil 07-08-2013 01:01 PM

1950 was actually a great final. However, there isn't the best video coverage on it. The goal is almost shown at a staggered pace.



This is the best clip I've ever seen of it and even then it isn't the best. There may have been a glitch somewhere in the footage of the original telecast. Hey, many people don't know this, but the Henderson goal was dangerously close to being cut out on live TV. About 3-4 minutes before the goal there was a terrible feed on the Russian end of the satellite and the screen would periodically blur. We're talking about a 5-5 game in the third period. Bottom line, Henderson scored it at the right time. Even during the celebration of the goal there is some blurring.

So basically because of a lack of a great video to watch this goal by Babando gets less press. It isn't like the "Shot Heard Round the World" from 1951 with good footage during the Dodgers and Giants pennant race.

Killion 07-08-2013 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Phil (Post 68934499)
This is the best clip I've ever seen of it and even then it isn't the best.

Very cool, excellent find. Looks like a backhander that either Rayner was partially screened on & or deflected off of one of his players in front there.... and aint it grand, no masks, no oversized gear on Rayner, no helmets, no names on the backs of the jerseys, straight bladed woodies, no advertising, and surprisingly fast paced with some excellent skaters. Theres another clip (posted in the Sticky up-top) of a 1933 game between NY & Toronto, same dealeo. Highly entertaining.

Peter9 07-09-2013 10:26 PM

Interesting statements in the great Dink Carroll's column from Bill Cowley of the Bruins and Tommy Ivan of the Red Wings on the way Maurice Richard and Ted Lindsay were treated by the opposition.

Carroll writes that Cowley, who had retired a few years before, remarked that "he couldn't understand how The Rocket controlled himself at all, considering the methods employed by opposing teams to keep him from scoring."

Carroll then quotes Ivan on why, after a blazing start to the season, Lindsay had gone into a scoring slump: "They're giving him the same treatment now that they've been giving Richard for years. What they do to these two guys is a crime."

i've been ridiculed before on this board when I wrote that Richard withstood more abuse than anyone else, that he was remarkably restrained in the face of that abuse, that he never started fights (although he defended himself and his teammates very capably), and that he only really lost it when someone threatened his livelihood--his hockey career--with dirty play (as when he was wacked across the face just above his eye in that infamous 1954 late-season game in the Boston Garden and, blood pouring from his wound, ended up striking an official.) One moderator on here, although he never saw Richard play or the way he was treated by the opposition and hasn't a clue about how it was, felt entitled to write, wouldn't you know this came from Peter 9. The way Cowley and Ivan--and many others who were witnesses-- describe it in this contemporaneous report is the way I remember it.

By the way, Canadiens 1958, thank you for posting all these historical reports. They are real history, and I wish I were able to contribute more to discussion of them. It's strange that the people who have all the time in the world for concocting and discussing statistical comparisons on this history board hardly ever comment when confronted with real history. They have little to say then, perhaps in part because real history doesn't fit in well with their neat little statistical theories.

Killion 07-10-2013 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter9 (Post 69004673)
...the way Maurice Richard and Ted Lindsay were treated by the opposition.

Heres an interesting National Film Board of Canada piece
on Maurice Richard, 42 minutes in length, well worth the time...

www.nfb.ca/film/rocket enjoy!

Canadiens1958 07-10-2013 06:38 AM

NHL Treatment of Superstars
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter9 (Post 69004673)
Interesting statements in the great Dink Carroll's column from Bill Cowley of the Bruins and Tommy Ivan of the Red Wings on the way Maurice Richard and Ted Lindsay were treated by the opposition.

Carroll writes that Cowley, who had retired a few years before, remarked that "he couldn't understand how The Rocket controlled himself at all, considering the methods employed by opposing teams to keep him from scoring."

Carroll then quotes Ivan on why, after a blazing start to the season, Lindsay had gone into a scoring slump: "They're giving him the same treatment now that they've been giving Richard for years. What they do to these two guys is a crime."

i've been ridiculed before on this board when I wrote that Richard withstood more abuse than anyone else, that he was remarkably restrained in the face of that abuse, that he never started fights (although he defended himself and his teammates very capably), and that he only really lost it when someone threatened his livelihood--his hockey career--with dirty play (as when he was wacked across the face just above his eye in that infamous 1954 late-season game in the Boston Garden and, blood pouring from his wound, ended up striking an official.) One moderator on here, although he never saw Richard play or the way he was treated by the opposition and hasn't a clue about how it was, felt entitled to write, wouldn't you know this came from Peter 9. The way Cowley and Ivan--and many others who were witnesses-- describe it in this contemporaneous report is the way I remember it.

By the way, Canadiens 1958, thank you for posting all these historical reports. They are real history, and I wish I were able to contribute more to discussion of them. It's strange that the people who have all the time in the world for concocting and discussing statistical comparisons on this history board hardly ever comment when confronted with real history. They have little to say then, perhaps in part because real history doesn't fit in well with their neat little statistical theories.

Peter9

Thank you for the kind comments.

Your main point seems to be the NHL Treatment of Superstars, a problem that pre dates the formation of the NHL and continues to this day.Sure that each reader could provide a list of superstar players who were targeted.

There are certain ironies standing side by side with the the comments made by NHL officials. Ivan talks about Lindsay, the same Ted Lindsay that had the NHL create penalties because of his play, elbowing, kneeing. During his NHL career as coach and GM Ivan regularly had players like, Tony Leswick, Reg Fleming and others on his teams agitate opposing superstars. Just recently we have the situation of Mario Lemieux, as a player speaking out against Matt Cooke type players while signing their paycheques as an owner.

Killion 07-10-2013 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 (Post 69012515)
There are certain ironies standing side by side with the the comments made by NHL officials. Ivan talks about Lindsay, the same Ted Lindsay that had the NHL create penalties because of his play, elbowing, kneeing. During his NHL career as coach and GM Ivan regularly had players like, Tony Leswick, Reg Fleming and others on his teams agitate opposing superstars. Just recently we have the situation of Mario Lemieux, as a player speaking out against Matt Cooke type players while signing their paycheques as an owner.

Hypocrisy. Absolutely. Whats good for the goose not always good for the gander. A matter of convenience. In the film I linked above for example, you have Frank Selke Sr there reminiscing about how every year Richard would just blithely sign a blank contract; moments later Maurice himself rather hilariously dispelling that notion altogether, and that "certain clauses, agreements were in place that neither the league nor my team mates were aware of" or words to that affect. In real time, here & now or retrospectively through revisionary meanderings, very hard to pin down a Smythe, Selke, Wirtz, Lemieux or anyone else for that matter, as first & foremost its a business for them, and that means winning at any & all costs. If that means putting Bounties on players heads, employing psych jobs, their gonna do it. Hockey from in some cases the AAA amateur levels through Junior on up is a War Zone. A Battlefield. These guys all grew up with it, its what they know, how they were taught, passed on from generation to generation. Every star player, since time immemorial a target, and it starts at a very young age. On the playing fields, rinks.

mbhhofr 07-10-2013 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killion (Post 69008703)
Heres an interesting National Film Board of Canada piece
on Maurice Richard, 42 minutes in length, well worth the time...

www.nfb.ca/film/rocket enjoy!

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

He was my Idol.

Killion 07-10-2013 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhhofr (Post 69021039)
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! He was my Idol.

Welcome welcome WELCOME! Isnt that a trip eh? What a terrific film. Another gem from the NFB. Serious serious Canadiana, Hockey. The producer really did a great job. Full spectrum of interviews, imagery. Dug deep into the vaults. What a hoot with Maurice's Barber; seeing Frank Selke Sr... really puts some meat & bones on the Legend I think for younger generations who werent around for it, as I wasnt, no memories of The Rocket live. And for the older guys here, a wonderful stroll down memory lane. ;)


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