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Nuckles 07-08-2013 01:06 PM

Around The League XLVII
 
Last thread: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1452113

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Burke's Evil Spirit 07-08-2013 03:43 PM

James Mirtle wrote a cautionary piece about David Clarkson's 7-year deal:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle13067766/

Just a jaw-dropping quote from Nonis in here: Im not worried about six or seven right now...Im worried about one. And Year 1, I know were going to have a very good player. I believe that hes got a lot of good years left in him.

Holy hell. I have my issues with Gillis but every now and then it's good to have a reminder of how incompetent Nonis was.

Free Torts 07-08-2013 03:52 PM

Of course Nonis isn't worried about years six and seven in Clarkson's contract. He'll be long since fired by then.

Reverend Mayhem 07-08-2013 03:54 PM

Anyone affiliated in that organization is crazy if they think they got a player better than a 20-goal scoring, 40-point scoring winger with a bit of snarl. Bad signing, good player.

ddawg1950 07-08-2013 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit (Post 68939469)
James Mirtle wrote a cautionary piece about David Clarkson's 7-year deal:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle13067766/

Just a jaw-dropping quote from Nonis in here: Im not worried about six or seven right now...Im worried about one. And Year 1, I know were going to have a very good player. I believe that hes got a lot of good years left in him.

Holy hell. I have my issues with Gillis but every now and then it's good to have a reminder of how incompetent Nonis was.

Looking at the charts, I would imagine the Leafs should be concerned about the performance drop off for power forwards after the age of 30.

Particularly since Clarkson turns 30 in March.

Wisp 07-08-2013 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem (Post 68940211)
Anyone affiliated in that organization is crazy if they think they got a player better than a 20-goal scoring, 40-point scoring winger with a bit of snarl. Bad signing, good player.

The Clarkson addition is okay, it's more that they threw away quality depth for an unproven goalie that they didn't need and tossed away a top 6, tough minutes center for nothing just so they could spend even more money on a bad center.

Reverend Mayhem 07-08-2013 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wisp (Post 68941491)
The Clarkson addition is okay, it's more that they threw away quality depth for an unproven goalie that they didn't need and tossed away a top 6, tough minutes center for nothing just so they could spend even more money on a bad center.

Losing Grabo was the mistake. One might not recognize it, but Bernier makes them a better team in a much more subtle way. I have no reservations with the addition of Clarkson, the contract though is a huge liability. Top to bottom. When he doesn't meet organization expectations, it's going to be really difficult to move him for anything they have lost in the opportunity cost of Grabovski.

arsmaster 07-08-2013 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem (Post 68941819)
Losing Grabo was the mistake. One might not recognize it, but Bernier makes them a better team in a much more subtle way. I have no reservations with the addition of Clarkson, the contract though is a huge liability. Top to bottom. When he doesn't meet organization expectations, it's going to be really difficult to move him for anything they have lost in the opportunity cost of Grabovski.

I'm not sure how adding an unproven backup makes them better.

The part that stuck out for me in the Mirtle article was this:

Quote:

He well may. Its even possible Clarkson can turn from something other than a power forward and chip in in other areas later in the contract. The problem with that scenario is that he makes $5.25-million a year, and if hes not producing 15-plus goals with some physical play thrown in, hes probably not providing much value at that number.
Is that the sad state of our league? 15 goals for $5.25m.


The worst part of that contract is that years 4 and 5 are for $7m in real cash, so it's not like that is an attractive contract to a cap floor team.

I have no reason why Nonis didn't front load it. That contract might be the worst deal in the league, as early as next year.

Reverend Mayhem 07-08-2013 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsmaster (Post 68942055)
I'm not sure how adding an unproven backup makes them better.

The part that stuck out for me in the Mirtle article was this:



Is that the sad state of our league? 15 goals for $5.25m.


The worst part of that contract is that years 4 and 5 are for $7m in real cash, so it's not like that is an attractive contract to a cap floor team.

I have no reason why Nonis didn't front load it. That contract might be the worst deal in the league, as early as next year.

I pretty much agree with you about the contract. I remember Panger (I think) said on the panel earlier this year "...and 20 goals a season is a lot of goals."

However, Bernier adds competition to a crease that needs it now. Worst case scenario is they both play up to their potential, one of them gets traded for a more significant return than Frattin, Scrivens + 2nd, which isn't really that much to begin with. For example, I'd take a 9th overall pick over that package. Bernier simply wasn't getting the games in LA to have a pedigree like Schneider has.

arsmaster 07-08-2013 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem (Post 68942461)
I pretty much agree with you about the contract. I remember Panger (I think) said on the panel earlier this year "...and 20 goals a season is a lot of goals."

However, Bernier adds competition to a crease that needs it now. Worst case scenario is they both play up to their potential, one of them gets traded for a more significant return than Frattin, Scrivens + 2nd, which isn't really that much to begin with. For example, I'd take a 9th overall pick over that package. Bernier simply wasn't getting the games in LA to have a pedigree like Schneider has.

I just don't see it with Bernier that is all. Schneider had it all, the mentality, athleticism, and to me what is most important for goalies these days, SIZE.

Bernier is 5'11" at best and I don't believe he has the frame to handle the rigors of the position.

I also think the competition will be bad for the team. I think it has potential to split the dressing room and as the cliche goes, when you have a 1A and 1B, it usually means you don't have a true #1.

Reverend Mayhem 07-08-2013 04:43 PM

Situation is different of course, but it did work in our dressing room. I don't know much about Bernier's mental game but his raw athleticism and positioning make me believe his size isn't that great a concern.

My one concern is how different Toronto and LA's systems are. LA liked to collapse to the net, Toronto I see something different every game. They are much younger than LA as well.

arsmaster 07-08-2013 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem (Post 68942923)
Situation is different of course, but it did work in our dressing room. I don't know much about Bernier's mental game but his raw athleticism and positioning make me believe his size isn't that great a concern.

My one concern is how different Toronto and LA's systems are. LA liked to collapse to the net, Toronto I see something different every game. They are much younger than LA as well.

The issue is, we had a clear #1 and the backup played his way into it.

Even at this point, I'd say Toronto lacks the true #1, although Reimer had some decent #'s this year.

Either way it's TO and I don't care, as always, I hope they fall flat on their faces.

Burke's Evil Spirit 07-08-2013 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddawg1950 (Post 68940277)
Looking at the charts, I would imagine the Leafs should be concerned about the performance drop off for power forwards after the age of 30.

Particularly since Clarkson turns 30 in March.

One thing about the charts is Mirtle kept things very simple and didn't account for survivorship bias. IE, the power forwards who keep producing into their 30s (ie, Shane Doan) produced at a much HIGHER rate in their 20s than the 45-50 points Clarkson's been providing. Overall the outlook for that contract is pretty grim.

MS 07-08-2013 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit (Post 68939469)
James Mirtle wrote a cautionary piece about David Clarkson's 7-year deal:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle13067766/

Just a jaw-dropping quote from Nonis in here: “I’m not worried about six or seven right now...I’m worried about one. And Year 1, I know we’re going to have a very good player. I believe that he’s got a lot of good years left in him.”

Holy hell. I have my issues with Gillis but every now and then it's good to have a reminder of how incompetent Nonis was.

What an astounding quote.

What an idiot.

I'd expect Clarkson to have 1 or 2 'decent' seasons and then quickly regress to a 25-30 point player.

Hammer Time 07-08-2013 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit (Post 68939469)
James Mirtle wrote a cautionary piece about David Clarkson's 7-year deal:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle13067766/

Just a jaw-dropping quote from Nonis in here: Im not worried about six or seven right now...Im worried about one. And Year 1, I know were going to have a very good player. I believe that hes got a lot of good years left in him.

Holy hell. I have my issues with Gillis but every now and then it's good to have a reminder of how incompetent Nonis was.

There are moments when I want to scream at Gillis. Then I remember that fellow Canadian hockey fans are deadling with Feaster, Tambellini, and Nonis.

me2 07-08-2013 05:40 PM

Best 3rd line in the league

Bozak-Bolland-Clarkson

PRNuck 07-08-2013 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer Time (Post 68945357)
There are moments when I want to scream at Gillis. Then I remember that fellow Canadian hockey fans are deadling with Feaster, Tambellini, and Nonis.

Don't be ridiculous, the Oilers know what they're doing, they jettisoned Tambo in favour of MacT and Scott Howson...

:sarcasm:

roach9 07-08-2013 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by me2 (Post 68945729)
Best 3rd line in the league

Bozak-Bolland-Clarkson

Bozak sticks out like a sore thumb on that line.
Not sold on Bozak whatsoever.

PRNuck 07-08-2013 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0bjectiveC0mput0r (Post 68947205)
Bozak sticks out like a sore thumb on that line.
Not sold on Bozak whatsoever.

Also...isn't that their second line? I feel like maybe me2's post was a joke and I took it literally.

Royal Canuck 07-08-2013 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0bjectiveC0mput0r (Post 68947205)
Bozak sticks out like a sore thumb on that line.
Not sold on Bozak whatsoever.

Raymond-like with a bit more consistency.

Awesome guy though.

LPH 07-08-2013 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem (Post 68942461)
I pretty much agree with you about the contract. I remember Panger (I think) said on the panel earlier this year "...and 20 goals a season is a lot of goals."

However, Bernier adds competition to a crease that needs it now. Worst case scenario is they both play up to their potential, one of them gets traded for a more significant return than Frattin, Scrivens + 2nd, which isn't really that much to begin with. For example, I'd take a 9th overall pick over that package. Bernier simply wasn't getting the games in LA to have a pedigree like Schneider has.

Wouldn't worst case scenario be that neither live up to their potential?

If Bernier and Reimer are on decent contracts with no NTCs I would argued that both living up to their potential would be best case scenario. They would have one very good goalie, and a package greater than the one they gave up for Bernier

ddawg1950 07-08-2013 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by me2 (Post 68945729)
Best 3rd line in the league

Bozak-Bolland-Clarkson

At nearly 13 million bucks, they should be.

Reverend Mayhem 07-08-2013 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by live playoff hockey (Post 68947607)
Wouldn't worst case scenario be that neither live up to their potential?

If Bernier and Reimer are on decent contracts with no NTCs I would argued that both living up to their potential would be best case scenario. They would have one very good goalie, and a package greater than the one they gave up for Bernier

No, I call that the 'lol' scenario.

But you pretty much explained what my expectations are with that trade right there.

mrmyheadhurts 07-08-2013 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royal Canuck (Post 68947429)
Raymond-like with a bit more consistency.

Awesome guy though.

Does a decent job in the face-off circle as well. Grabo is a better player but I understood why they pushed to keep Bozak by overpaying a bit. Obviously has good chemistry with Kessel who I'm sure also pushed for the signing. It's not that dissimilar to B. Morrison, who was a better player than Bozak but was also playing way above his head and flanked by two star wingers. Chemistry is a funny, fickle thing.

I would have been furious if the Canucks gave Bozak that contract, but I get it from a Leaf point of view.

me2 07-08-2013 08:06 PM

Nonis needs sign a guy starting with a vowel. Struggling to add Clarkson and Grabovski to LACK. GLACCK?


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