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-   -   Winnipeg Jets Top 20 Prospect Rankings (2013 edition) - #11 (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1467095)

Hank Chinaski 07-11-2013 09:34 AM

Winnipeg Jets Top 20 Prospect Rankings (2013 edition) - #11
 
1. Jacob Trouba
2. Mark Scheifele
3. Josh Morrissey
4. Adam Lowry
5. Zach Redmond
6. Nic Petan
7. Paul Postma
8. Eric O'Dell
9. Connor Hellebuyck
10. Ivan Telegin

truck 07-11-2013 09:45 AM

Went with Lodge.

I generally chill on such boom of bust players, but I have been talking about him for months. Hopefully he can beef up a little and keep improving. He will have to carry his team a bunch next year.

DEANYOUNGBLOOD17 07-11-2013 09:52 AM

I think I am going to vote for Ivan Tealgins Twin brother who is also named Ivan telegin..... or maybe we should edit the poll so we do not have a repeat of ovechkin named an all star at both lw and rw:laugh:

DEANYOUNGBLOOD17 07-11-2013 10:03 AM

I voted Comrie....... I am usually not big on such a young Goaler ....but seeing that he has just been invited to Canadas WJC this summer ..... I am voting his way and hoping he can earn a spot on Canadas team this year........:yo:

Hank Chinaski 07-11-2013 10:28 AM

Jeez, I accidentally included Telegin in the poll. That's what happens when you try and do this while distracted at work. It's been fixed.

Holden Caulfield 07-11-2013 10:45 AM

I guess this poll is hugely on how you evaluate talent. I take the guy who has proven #5/6 talent with potential to be #3/4 (shutdown Malkin/Datysuk in Russia if you watched him) rather than the much longer shot #1 goalie, but that's just me.

Guerzy 07-11-2013 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield (Post 69070263)
I guess this poll is hugely on how you evaluate talent. I take the guy who has proven #5/6 talent with potential to be #3/4 (shutdown Malkin/Datysuk in Russia if you watched him) rather than the much longer shot #1 goalie, but that's just me.

This I really have to disagree with. I know you're a Kulda fan but come on, a proven 5/6? When did he do that? at some point over the last 3 seasons and whopping 15 NHL games at the age of 25 in a couple weeks? Kulda is as much of an NHL'er right now as your average AHL'er with a glimmer of hope but he has yet to crack the bigs.

And the whole shutting down Datsyuk/Malkin in Russia, good God, I guess 29 NHL GM's missed that star gazing fact when he was passed over and unclaimed on waivers.

I get you like Kulda and I admire your knowledge and passion, and I do like Kulda to an extent myself, but let's not build him up to something is clearly isn't at this point.

BigTuna49 07-11-2013 10:55 AM

A proven borderline NHLer is still better then a goalie that might neer even make the AHL....

Holden Caulfield 07-11-2013 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guerzy (Post 69070557)
This I really have to disagree with. I know you're a Kulda fan but come on, a proven 5/6? When did he do that? at some point over the last 3 seasons and whopping 15 NHL games at the age of 25 in a couple weeks? Kulda is as much of an NHL'er right now as your average AHL'er with a glimmer of hope but he has yet to crack the bigs.

He has only not gotten the games since Noel stupidly will not give them to him. He was arguably (although not really that arguably IMO) the most consistant defender we had in the winning streak of December 2011. He is smart safe and makes all the right plays in his own zone during that time (and every time he is on the ice for). He does not have top end potential, but during that time he more than convinced me he would be no worse at very least than Clitsome. Maybe Jets management disagrees, but you could easily slot him in over 50-60 defenders in the NHL, IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guerzy (Post 69070557)
And the whole shutting down Datsyuk/Malkin in Russia, good God, I guess 29 NHL GM's missed that star gazing fact when he was passed over and unclaimed on waivers.

Your timeline needs work ;)

Let's not forget Matt Moulson (signed with the only team that wanted him at league minimum on a two-way), Danny Briere, Steve Sullivan, Chris Kunitz, etc, etc...

DEANYOUNGBLOOD17 07-11-2013 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guerzy (Post 69070557)
This I really have to disagree with. I know you're a Kulda fan but come on, a proven 5/6? When did he do that? at some point over the last 3 seasons and whopping 15 NHL games at the age of 25 in a couple weeks? Kulda is as much of an NHL'er right now as your average AHL'er with a glimmer of hope but he has yet to crack the bigs.

And the whole shutting down Datsyuk/Malkin in Russia, good God, I guess 29 NHL GM's missed that star gazing fact when he was passed over and unclaimed on waivers.

I get you like Kulda and I admire your knowledge and passion, and I do like Kulda to an extent myself, but let's not build him up to something is clearly isn't at this point.

I agree .... I like Kulda but I will not vote for him at all in this poll(even at #20). The reason being this is a poll of rating Jet prospects and how they will benefit the Jets in the future........Kulda is a good depth player at this time but his window is rapidly closing and I predict (givin how the Jets handled him so far).......He does not play another game for the Jets and becomes a UFA next July......

Hank Chinaski 07-11-2013 11:02 AM

Meh. Kulda is basically where Ben Maxwell was last year. Borderline for being considered a prospect and with no clear path to the NHL.

Guerzy 07-11-2013 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke89 (Post 69070671)
A proven borderline NHLer is still better then a goalie that might neer even make the AHL....

In my opinion it goes deeper than just being a borderline NHL'er in these rankings. But, that's just my opinion. If you're a borderline NHL'er, you can be found at a dime a dozen rate. I like to consider many things in these rankings, but I do value potential over just being a borderline NHL'er. That isn't exactly a big seller for me in rankings that is in general projecting the future.

What about a proven borderline NHL'er in Machacek a year ago being better than, say, Telegin? because that didn't happen in last years rankings nor would I value Machacek over Telegin right now. Many viewed Telegin as a top 6-9 prospect based on potential in that pole, while Machacek was viewed as a bottom 6 guy and at that time penciled in as an NHL'er on our roster. Telegin slotted #3 last summer with 46 votes while Machacek (borderline proven NHL'er who finished the season quite well) finished with 2 votes in that 3rd round.


Flip to this pole, and Comrie is viewed as a potential 1-2 NHL quality goaltender (hard to tell yet, yes I agree), where as Kulda is a borderline NHL'er, run of the mill, dime a dozen depth defenseman. I guess it all depends on how you personally view these rankings.

Holden Caulfield 07-11-2013 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 69070977)
Meh. Kulda is basically where Ben Maxwell was last year. Borderline for being considered a prospect and with no clear path to the NHL.

I wish Kulda the same as I wish Machacek. A real chance with a team willing to give him a chance. I see Kulda succeeding hugely in the same way Hainsey did, with a new team that takes the chance to give him meaningful minutes rather than be stuck in their ways (how did Francis Boullion do? Was he really worth Hainsey?).

truck 07-11-2013 11:14 AM

I like Kulda, but I have no faith that he will ever play a major role for the Jets.

I am waiting a little on him.

Hank Chinaski 07-11-2013 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield (Post 69070861)
He has only not gotten the games since Noel stupidly will not give them to him. He was arguably (although not really that arguably IMO) the most consistant defender we had in the winning streak of December 2011. He is smart safe and makes all the right plays in his own zone during that time (and every time he is on the ice for). He does not have top end potential, but during that time he more than convinced me he would be no worse at very least than Clitsome. Maybe Jets management disagrees, but you could easily slot him in over 50-60 defenders in the NHL, IMO.

Playing easily the most shielded minutes on the team. And I don't know about all the right plays, granted I didn't many Randy Jones style **** ups, but Kulda seemed to be out of position quite a bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield (Post 69071475)
I wish Kulda the same as I wish Machacek. A real chance with a team willing to give him a chance. I see Kulda succeeding hugely in the same way Hainsey did, with a new team that takes the chance to give him meaningful minutes rather than be stuck in their ways (how did Francis Boullion do? Was he really worth Hainsey?).

Fair enough. Someone picking him up on waivers would be a good start. ;)

Holden Caulfield 07-11-2013 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 69071621)
Playing easily the most shielded minutes on the team.

Not his fault.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 69071621)
And I don't know about all the right plays, granted I didn't many Randy Jones style **** ups, but Kulda seemed to be out of position quite a bit.

Completely 100% disagree but ok.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 69071621)
Fair enough. Someone picking him up on waivers would be a good start. ;)

Again, he had not nearly proven as much as he has now, IMO.

Guerzy 07-11-2013 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield (Post 69070861)
He has only not gotten the games since Noel stupidly will not give them to him. He was arguably (although not really that arguably IMO) the most consistant defender we had in the winning streak of December 2011. He is smart safe and makes all the right plays in his own zone during that time (and every time he is on the ice for). He does not have top end potential, but during that time he more than convinced me he would be no worse at very least than Clitsome. Maybe Jets management disagrees, but you could easily slot him in over 50-60 defenders in the NHL, IMO.



Your timeline needs work ;)

Let's not forget Matt Moulson (signed with the only team that wanted him at league minimum on a two-way), Danny Briere, Steve Sullivan, Chris Kunitz, etc, etc...

Indeed, my timeline with waivers was off. Still, do you really think Kulda, who as you favorably claim was shutting down Malkin and Datsyuk was all that damn worthy that some other team wouldn't have seen him shutting down those elite stars and traded for him? Unless of course you believe Chevy has made it his mission to hide Kulda from the rest of the hockey world.

Your examples are good (Moulson, Danny Briere, Steve Sullivan, Chris Kunitz), and I agree to an extent with those guys, but those type of guys in my opinion are more the exception rather than the rule, and the number proves that in terms of borderline NHL'ers (quality AHL'ers) who never pan out in the big leagues.

I like Kulda, I think he has some nice tools, but he needs to **** or get off the pot here at some point given his age and experience as a pro.

takehisheadoff 07-11-2013 11:33 AM

I voted Lipon. And come about November after Scheifele and Trouba make the team. Petan will be our number 1 prospect even over Morrissey. And that is not a knock in anyway on Morrissey. I think both those 2 will make team Canada for WJ's. I seen Petan play a few times live this year and wow. When I seen after the first we got Petan, Comrie, Lipon, AND KITCHTON.
WE won the draft. :yo::yo:

Rheged 07-11-2013 11:34 AM

Voted Kulda, add Kichton.

Quote:

Originally Posted by truck (Post 69071503)
I like Kulda, but I have no faith that he will ever play a major role for the Jets.

I tend to agree, but that doesn't make him less of a quality prospect does it?

truck 07-11-2013 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rheged (Post 69072453)
I tend to agree, but that doesn't make him less of a quality prospect does it?

No, but it lessens his likely impact here.

Hank Chinaski 07-11-2013 11:45 AM

Just curious, why haven't I heard a peep about Patrice Cormier?

Has played more NHL games than Kulda, and is two years younger to boot.

Holden Caulfield 07-11-2013 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guerzy (Post 69072081)
Indeed, my timeline with waivers was off. Still, do you really think Kulda, who as you favorably claim was shutting down Malkin and Datsyuk was all that damn worthy that some other team wouldn't have seen him shutting down those elite stars and traded for him? Unless of course you believe Chevy has made it his mission to hide Kulda from the rest of the hockey world.

I don't think people have been hugely overwhelmed by Kulda due to lack of experience, but he will shine if given a chance. That's all he needs. He will eventually be a coveted player if given a chance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guerzy (Post 69072081)
Your examples are good (Moulson, Danny Briere, Steve Sullivan, Chris Kunitz), and I agree to an extent with those guys, but those type of guys in my opinion are more the exception rather than the rule, and the number proves that in terms of borderline NHL'ers (quality AHL'ers) who never pan out in the big leagues.

That's the tricky thing with the NHL, we all like to believe that the best players all eventually get there and prove their worth, but MANY MANY players just never have the right opportunity to show their stuff and that's what seperates the Matt Moulson, Rob Scuderi, Danny Briere, Steve Sullivan, Dustin Penner's of the world from the Arturs Kulda, Aleksey Morozov, Tony Martensson, Jori Lehtera, Tomas Zaborsky's of the world.

We see this all time when a roster of Flavien Conne, Paul Di Pietro, Romano Lemm, Martin Pluss beats the heralded stars of Team Canada.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guerzy (Post 69072081)
I like Kulda, I think he has some nice tools, but he needs to **** or get off the pot here at some point given his age and experience as a pro.

Again, I do think that is at all his fault. It's the fault of the organization to give him the chance, IMO. The Islanders in recent years are showing that talent can be uncovered from unheralded players (Thomas Hickey, Matt Moulson, Brad Boyes, Brian Strait, Michael Grabner, Andrew MacDonald, Colin McDonald). We need to start giving these guys a REAL chance. That team is lower salary and keeps uncovering gems with nobodies since they play players to their strength and give them a REAL shot to show their talent level.

YWGinYYZ 07-11-2013 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 69073005)
Just curious, why haven't I heard a peep about Patrice Cormier?

Has played more NHL games than Kulda, and is two years younger to boot.

For me, other than his face off prowess he has demonstrated next to no additional upside at the pro level when called up. He's been given a number of opportunities, and either can't or won't kick the door down and force the organization to keep him up. His game should be one of a feisty, hard to play against checking winger / centre that throws the body. This was his modus operandi during his junior years, but he seems to have gotten away from this game, unfortunately.

I think this will be a telling season for Cormier one way or the other - I believe that he's waiver eligible this year, yes?

Rheged 07-11-2013 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 69073005)
Just curious, why haven't I heard a peep about Patrice Cormier?

Has played more NHL games than Kulda, and is two years younger to boot.

He should have made the team out of camp this past season, the opportunity was there but the team felt the need to bring in players from other organizations, that really lowers my expectations for him.

Kulda's role / results on a team in a very strong league give me more hope for him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holdern Caulfield
Again, I do think that is at all his fault. It's the fault of the organization to give him the chance, IMO. The Islanders in recent years are showing that talent can be uncovered from unheralded players (Thomas Hickey, Matt Moulson, Brad Boyes, Brian Strait, Michael Grabner, Andrew MacDonald, Colin McDonald). We need to start giving these guys a REAL chance. That team is lower salary and keeps uncovering gems with nobodies since they play players to their strength and give them a REAL shot to show their talent level.

It's funny that you mention this, because it seems to me that the Jets have really tried to follow this sort of philosophy, looking for underutilized players via waivers and cheap trades and attempting to use them in bigger roles.

So far of course this hasn't really worked out for us, maybe Pro scouting needs an overhaul?

Guerzy 07-11-2013 12:01 PM

I can indeed agree with you here on many of your points, Holden. With a chance comes opportunity but also with an opportunity comes a chance. Perhaps you are right and that is all Kulda needs, much like we gave Redmond and Postma this season.

I still have my doubts about Kulda, but I wouldn't be upset if he was given a chance by any means. We'll see. Not counting him out completely, I just think he needs to show something here at some point to open the eyes of management so they give him a chance. Step up and make a nice hard hit along the boards/at the blueline a few times. If it were me, there comes a time when just being average and 'safe' may not be good enough to get recognized, so you gotta step up and do something to catch the eyes of the people watching you. Make them notice you, demand they look at you.


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