HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Edmonton Oilers (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=38)
-   -   Most Valuable Oiler #5 (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1467711)

Mc5RingsAndABeer 07-11-2013 08:20 PM

Most Valuable Oiler #5
 
Who do you think is the fifth most valuable Oiler going forward?

Consider age, contract, injury history, positional value, leadership, potential, etc... One way of thinking of it would be: in a trade to a neutral team, who would bring the greatest return?

1. Taylor Hall (75%)
2. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (70%)
3. Nail Yakupov (65%)
4. Jordan Eberle (65%)

AlowlyMcOilersfan 07-11-2013 08:20 PM

edit: JS, obviously

No option for NS? Come on!

Jazzy B 07-11-2013 08:22 PM

I want to say Laddy Smid, but nah. J Schultz

SeriousBusiness 07-11-2013 08:43 PM

I've voted Schultz the last three polls. Eventually he'll get his due.

Delicious Pancakes 07-11-2013 09:03 PM

Wow, I voted Klefbom and thought there would be more people voting for him as well. Schultz is great but I think he's a lot more limited in terms of his potential compared to Klefbom and he's 3 years older than Klefbom. Offense is great but I believe Klefbom will develop into an all-around defenseman who is more valuable than Schultz.

TheFadedLine 07-11-2013 09:25 PM

Justin Schultz is absolutely brilliant. After this years NHL experience and a full proper NHL off season he is going to dummy people all year long.

CantHaveTkachev 07-11-2013 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delicious Pancakes (Post 69110089)
Wow, I voted Klefbom and thought there would be more people voting for him as well. Schultz is great but I think he's a lot more limited in terms of his potential compared to Klefbom and he's 3 years older than Klefbom. Offense is great but I believe Klefbom will develop into an all-around defenseman who is more valuable than Schultz.

I'll wait till he plays an NHL game before I denote him an MVP-type player

McFlyingV 07-11-2013 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delicious Pancakes (Post 69110089)
Wow, I voted Klefbom and thought there would be more people voting for him as well. Schultz is great but I think he's a lot more limited in terms of his potential compared to Klefbom and he's 3 years older than Klefbom. Offense is great but I believe Klefbom will develop into an all-around defenseman who is more valuable than Schultz.

While I think Klefbom has top pairing potential, I also think J schultz does as well however he has much better offence and is way more nhl ready. He looked great at times last year and I think this season could be a break out season for Schultz. I think his defensive game will improve especially playing with ference or smid and his offence could take off (think potentially 15 goal 50-60 pt season)

McPuritania 07-11-2013 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delicious Pancakes (Post 69110089)
Wow, I voted Klefbom and thought there would be more people voting for him as well. Schultz is great but I think he's a lot more limited in terms of his potential compared to Klefbom and he's 3 years older than Klefbom. Offense is great but I believe Klefbom will develop into an all-around defenseman who is more valuable than Schultz.

It was between Schultz and Klefbom for me. Klefbom has the potential to be the best Dman we have, and a rock on the first pairing, the thing is, he hasn't had the opportunity to play and be evaluated. Schultz has, and the glimpses we saw have been fan-bloody-tastic. For that reason I had to go with Schultz.

Replacement* 07-12-2013 12:01 AM

I'm late arriving to the party but how is it that a player that hasn't ever played a single game for the Oilers be considered a "most valuable oiler" even if using the term "going forward". Its a stretch. Which lends itself to the fantasy of what a player could be...vs whatever already is.

Something in that needs constant explaining or something.

My own take is that bird in hand ought to have more merit then flights of fancy. jmo

The Nuge 07-12-2013 12:26 AM

Klefa for me. Schultz is obviously the much safer option, but I don't think he ends up as good

I am the Liquor 07-12-2013 12:33 AM

People are actually voting for Gagner?

Lol wut?:laugh:

Bangers 07-12-2013 12:58 AM

Now it's getting tough.

In terms of who is the best player now, I would go with Perron.

In terms of who I think would return the most in a trade, I would go with Schultz.

Who would hurt the team the most if he went down with injury? Dubnyk.

Highest upside? (Probably) Nurse. Or Klefbom.

In the end, I went with Schultz because he's probably the best combination of all of the above categories - high upside, good positional value (puck-moving defenceman), already a good offensive defenceman, and he's got a pretty unique skill set for the team.

JoeCool16 07-12-2013 01:40 AM

Next vote will be the interesting one, as JSchultz has clearly got this by a country mile.

402 07-12-2013 01:54 AM

To me every poll as been super obvious so far but it should get interesting after this one

Bangers 07-12-2013 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 402 (Post 69119335)
To me every poll as been super obvious so far but it should get interesting after this one

Well, we know what the return was for Perron.

The question is: Would any of the other players on the list return a 22-year old former top ten pick with 150+ GP/50+ points, as well as a 2nd round pick?

Pajicz 07-12-2013 05:47 AM

Justin Schultz.

Next poll, please.

Hoogaar23 07-12-2013 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am the Liquor (Post 69117339)
People are actually voting for Gagner?

Lol wut?:laugh:

People are actualy voting for Klefbom? Lol wut? :laugh: The poll is most valuable Oiler - Klefbom is not even technically an Oiler is he?

LaGu 07-12-2013 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 (Post 69122107)
People are actualy voting for Klefbom? Lol wut? :laugh: The poll is most valuable Oiler - Klefbom is not even technically an Oiler is he?

I think he's been an Oiler for about a year now, didn't he sign up last July?

Anyway, imo it all depends on how you consider this question. If you ask me which one is of most value to this team I will give you one answer, but if you ask which one will give me the biggest return in a trade the answer may be different.

For example, I bet that MacKinnon is one of the most valuable players in Colorado in terms of return but I would call him the most valuable for the team as of yet seeing as he hasn't done anything yet.

Hoogaar23 07-12-2013 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaGu (Post 69122313)
I think he's been an Oiler for about a year now, didn't he sign up last July?

Anyway, imo it all depends on how you consider this question. If you ask me which one is of most value to this team I will give you one answer, but if you ask which one will give me the biggest return in a trade the answer may be different.

For example, I bet that MacKinnon is one of the most valuable players in Colorado in terms of return but I would call him the most valuable for the team as of yet seeing as he hasn't done anything yet.

He has never been on the Oilers' active roster, so he has never technically been an Oiler has he? Oilers property, yes. Oiler? Not sure - don't think so. Semantics, but whatever - the guy has never played a game for the Oilers or any other NHL team and it's OK for him to get votes, but people find it funny that a 23 year old 6 year NHL veteran who is 2nd in scoring from his draft class is getting votes. :huh:

My vote in this one was Schultz. Next one will be Gagner.

Replacement* 07-12-2013 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaGu (Post 69122313)
I think he's been an Oiler for about a year now, didn't he sign up last July?

Anyway, imo it all depends on how you consider this question. If you ask me which one is of most value to this team I will give you one answer, but if you ask which one will give me the biggest return in a trade the answer may be different.

For example, I bet that MacKinnon is one of the most valuable players in Colorado in terms of return but I would call him the most valuable for the team as of yet seeing as he hasn't done anything yet.

I'll just respond to your post because I already raised what Hoogaar raised.

People have an odd view in terms of what represents potential. Of what represents possible return.
The natural way to look at this is in terms of stock value. Which company holds higher value? The close to blue chip stock from a firm with proven track record, with attractive quarterly statements, returns, that are actually established and selling a reputable product and that is traded in all the big stock floors. Or the upstart prospective stock based on a potential play, a potential return, and not yet traded, not earning, and not going to be even traded on the markets for a considerable time.

Which stock do you buy now? Which stock do you hold. Which stock do you think has the greater probability of return now, and in the future.

People really underestimate how much better the established play is. Some more Warren Buffet reading would be in order. He values good established stocks, always has, and has always been a great investor.


Man this board is in love with prospects. Theres a whole lot of bre-X trading going on.:D


What this plays on is that the fantasy thought of what a player could be, i.e. a prospect, is sexier than what is actually in hand. Even if the player in hand holds considerable value. Even if the player in hand went 28 games scoring 28pts. Or had an 8pt NHL game. Its odd that that player holds no value, holds no prospect of increased value, by many posters in this thread, even though his value is established and clearly rising.

The whole poll suggests hive thought and everybody rushing to buy the same stock.

OneMoreAstronaut 07-12-2013 09:08 AM

Wow, I expected this poll to be a lot closer with at least a few of the options left. Schultz will be great, but he is only the most valuable Oiler on that list in fans' minds.

Mc5RingsAndABeer 07-12-2013 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 (Post 69123387)
He has never been on the Oilers' active roster, so he has never technically been an Oiler has he? Oilers property, yes. Oiler? Not sure - don't think so. Semantics, but whatever - the guy has never played a game for the Oilers or any other NHL team and it's OK for him to get votes, but people find it funny that a 23 year old 6 year NHL veteran who is 2nd in scoring from his draft class is getting votes. :huh:

My vote in this one was Schultz. Next one will be Gagner.

IMO players who aren't in the league yet can easily have more value than guys who are.

I'd move Smid/Gagner just for the rights to draft McDavid in 2 years. I'd also move either of them for any of the top 4 this past draft.

McCupofOil 07-12-2013 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneMoreAstronaut (Post 69125109)
Wow, I expected this poll to be a lot closer with at least a few of the options left. Schultz will be great, but he is only the most valuable Oiler on that list in fans' minds.

Who left on that list is more valuable than J. Schultz? I would argue that he's more valuable than Eberle and even Yakupov.
I have little doubts that this kid is going to be a consistent 50-60 pt scorer and I think he has more potential defensively than some here give him credit for.
Defensemen like this are a rare breed and we were incredibly lucky to land him for free.

Replacement* 07-12-2013 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer (Post 69125607)
IMO players who aren't in the league yet can easily have more value than guys who are.

I'd move Smid/Gagner just for the rights to draft McDavid in 2 years. I'd also move either of them for any of the top 4 this past draft.



Generally your opinion would be wrong.

Lets phrase it in simplest terms. Gagner and Smid are actual NHL players of actual NHL value and worth. Lets say you're an agent. You have a choice between making 10% cut off of these players contracts or deferring several years to make a future cut off some kid thats years away. What agent would defer 10% of say 8M annual income starting immediately for the prospect of an income that won't be able to achieve that annual rate of return even optimally for about 10yrs? Given best case scenario. Worst case being never making a dime off that player. Then consider all the years you waited for that prospect to give you any foreseeable return and how much behind you are on accrued value.

Present established value trumps prospective value except in very special instances. Connor Mcdavid may prove to be that exception. But Klefbom and J Schultz are not likely in that prospective league.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:07 AM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.