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-   -   Ranking Top 6, Bottom 6, and D (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1468183)

notloilersfan 07-12-2013 04:32 PM

Ranking Top 6, Bottom 6, and D
 
Since it sounds like MacT is mostly done for the off-season, I decided to go through all 29 rosters around the league, and decide if they are better or worse than us in the three categories: Top 6 Forwards, Bottom 6 Forwards, D-core.

Top 6 Forwards:

Oilers : Hall, RNH, Eberle, Yakupov, Gagner, Perron

Ranking: 4th

Who Was Better: Boston, Chicago, Pittsburgh.

Notes: Pittsburgh got there because of Crosby and Malkin, but I might still like the potential balance of our attack more. (if we're coached right)

Who Was Worse: The following teams were worth being in the discussion... Colorado, Detroit, San Jose, Philly, Vancouver

Bottom 6 Forwards

Oilers: Gordon, Hemsky, Jones, Smyth, Lander, Joensuu, Brown

Ranking: 26th

Who Was Worse: Carolina, New Jersey, Tampa, Vancouver

Who Was Better: I wasn't crazy on Dallas, Florida, or Winnipeg

Notes: I thought we'd be 30th here. It's still very bad compared to the good teams out there though.

Defense

Oilers: Petry, Smid, J. Schultz, Ference, N. Schultz, Belov, Kelfbom, Potter.

Ranking: 19th

Who Was Better: Anaheim, Boston, Chicago, Columbus, Florida, Los Angeles, Minnesota, Montreal, Nashville, Rangers, Ottawa, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Toronto, Vancouver, Washinton

Notes: I liked the top pairing of Minny and Tampa... but I might like our depth more than those teams. Their top pairings were too good though.

Who Was Worse: Buffalo, Calgary, Carolina, Colorado, Dallas, Detroit, New Jersey, Islanders, Philadelphia, San Jose, Winnipeg

Notes: Cases can be made here for Wings, Sharks, Jets and Islanders.



So what do you think? Am I way off? Do you disagree in certain areas? Flame away, I was just bored :)

Trafalgar Law 07-12-2013 04:36 PM

Umm San Jose and LA clearly have better top 6s than us... Tampa's is probably better simply because of Stamkos/St Louis as well. No team in the NHL, besides maybe Calgary has a worse bottom 6 than us. Boyd Gordon and Ryan Jones are the only "good bottom 6 players". (I consider Hemsky a negative in the bottom 6 because he can't do anything expected of a bottom 6 forward)

notloilersfan 07-12-2013 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law (Post 69143517)
Umm San Jose and LA clearly have better top 6s than us...

I'll take your argument on the Sharks. Way better down the middle, but I think their top 4 wingers don't come close to our firepower.

LA struggled offensively in the playoffs. They have a strong top 6, but I like ours better.

6 God 07-12-2013 04:42 PM

On the bright side, having a trash bottom 6 is a better problem than having a trash top 6.

Trafalgar Law 07-12-2013 04:43 PM

If the Oilers top 6 were to play against the Sharks/Kings top 6, we would get manhandled. We'll probably get more points out of our players, but that doesn't necessarily make us better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAY Z (Post 69143691)
On the bright side, having a trash bottom 6 is a better problem than having a trash top 6.

:laugh: True that, we could also be Calgary and have a trash bottom 6 and a trash top 6.

Panda Bear 07-12-2013 04:43 PM

I don't think San Jose has a better top six than us. Thornton and Marleau continue to slow down, while Havlat is nowhere near the player he used to be. You can prefer their centre depth, but our wings are definitely better--and actually fill out a genuine top six.

I'm willing to concede LA for this upcoming season, but that's taking into account defensive acumen and physical play. I don't think they're as offensively talented nor as fast as we are.

gqmixmaster 07-12-2013 04:44 PM

I like our team better on paper closer to what your saying they are now just in a few years when these players have developed more.

I think this coming year though our D will be top 10

Our bottom 6 fwd's and inconsistent goaltending will be our problem

Toydarian 07-12-2013 04:46 PM

Did you create rankings based on quantifiable stats or just personal preference/opinion?

Panda Bear 07-12-2013 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toydarian (Post 69143835)
Did you create rankings based on quantifiable stats or just personal preference/opinion?

I'm confident in saying that they're his personal opinion, which is why he's welcoming people to debate the rankings.

I think he did a bang up job, too.

notloilersfan 07-12-2013 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gqmixmaster (Post 69143783)
I like our team better on paper closer to what your saying they are now just in a few years when these players have developed more.

I think this coming year though our D will be top 10

Our bottom 6 fwd's and inconsistent goaltending will be our problem

Petry, Klefbom, and J. Schultz have the potential to move us past 5-10 of the teams I ranked ahead of us for sure. I ranked us with them being good, not great. If they play to their potential, our D core does not look bad at all.

notloilersfan 07-12-2013 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toydarian (Post 69143835)
Did you create rankings based on quantifiable stats or just personal preference/opinion?

Just personal preference/opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panda Bear (Post 69143867)
I'm confident in saying that they're his personal opinion, which is why he's welcoming people to debate the rankings.

I think he did a bang up job, too.

Thanks!

RisingSun 07-12-2013 04:49 PM

There's no way our forward group is 4th in the league. It's not realistic to base our team on potential and other teams on past preformance because potential isn't quantifiable.

Toydarian 07-12-2013 04:50 PM

I'm not criticizing. I'm just curious and wasn't sure.

As someone else pointed out, the standard stats don't tell us everything.

notloilersfan 07-12-2013 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeRadicals (Post 69143937)
There's no way our forward group is 4th in the league. It's not realistic to base our team on potential and other teams on past preformance because potential isn't quantifiable.

Hall and Eberle were both top 10 in NHL scoring during their healthiest seasons. RNH and Gagner, while being picked on in size, are two very good playmaking centers. Yakupov, when put on the right side and with good linemates, was only outscored by Ovechkin (beast mode) down the stretch. Perron is a very good complimentary player to that core who can skate, hit and score.

If that top six is healthy, I am not basing it on potential.

RisingSun 07-12-2013 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notloilersfan (Post 69144029)
Hall and Eberle were both top 10 in NHL scoring during their healthiest seasons. RNH and Gagner, while being picked on in size, are two very good playmaking centers. Yakupov, when put on the right side and with good linemates, was only outscored by Ovechkin (beast mode) down the stretch. Perron is a very good complimentary player to that core who can skate, hit and score.

If that top six is healthy, I am not basing it on potential.

Fair enough, but the question is can they tie it all together into one product. Personally I can't wait to find out in October.

notloilersfan 07-12-2013 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeRadicals (Post 69144083)
Fair enough, but the question is can they tie it all together into one product. Personally I can't wait to find out in October.

Agreed

Trafalgar Law 07-12-2013 05:45 PM

I personally rank us based on: can we outplay these guys at even strength. On paper, the Sharks are actually worse than us, but every time we played them last year, we got pushed around by Thornton/Marleau/Couture/Burns and it just looked like men playing against kids. The addition of David Perron isn't enough strength to help us take them down. This goes the other way around too. The Avs on paper have an approximately equal top 6 as us, but every time Hall/RNH/Eberle played against Landeskog/Duchene/Parenteau, they dominated possession, scoring chances, cycles, and made the Avs forwards look like peewees. The addition of MacKinnon isn't going to help them beat out a confident Yakupov/Perron.

notloilersfan 07-12-2013 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law (Post 69145619)
I personally rank us based on: can we outplay these guys at even strength. On paper, the Sharks are actually worse than us, but every time we played them last year, we got pushed around by Thornton/Marleau/Couture/Burns and it just looked like men playing against kids. The addition of David Perron isn't enough strength to help us take them down. This goes the other way around too. The Avs on paper have an approximately equal top 6 as us, but every time Hall/RNH/Eberle played against Landeskog/Duchene/Parenteau, they dominated possession, scoring chances, cycles, and made the Avs forwards look like peewees. The addition of MacKinnon isn't going to help them beat out a confident Yakupov/Perron.

Fair assessment. Like I said before, I didn't go that in depth with it. I wasn't thinking how we would do playing against that team. I was thinking how effective will that group be playing against all teams in an 82 game season.

Bank Shot 07-12-2013 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notloilersfan (Post 69144029)
Hall and Eberle were both top 10 in NHL scoring during their healthiest seasons. RNH and Gagner, while being picked on in size, are two very good playmaking centers. Yakupov, when put on the right side and with good linemates, was only outscored by Ovechkin (beast mode) down the stretch. Perron is a very good complimentary player to that core who can skate, hit and score.

If that top six is healthy, I am not basing it on potential.

I think you are undervaluing the defenisve ability of other team's top six. Like Detroit who has perrenial Selke candidate Pavel Datsyuk. Even with an injury Detroit has better top six centers as they have Zetterberg capable of playing the middle. Frazen is basically a 30 goal scorer the last 3 seasons. All in all Detroit's top six is better until proven otherwise.

All in all I think you have overvauled the Oilers in each category by 4-5 slots.

pcanuck 07-12-2013 08:41 PM

I think macT isn't done yet. I could see him moving Hemsky for help on the 4th line or Coburn. Could be both ... he wants a far better checking line and D.

macT has already said he's getting impatient. I see another trade VERY soon. If they can't get Coburn for Hemsky - I could see Gagner in the mix then it becomes a larger trade. Could also be a sign and trade too.

Usual_Suspect 07-12-2013 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcanuck (Post 69150701)
I think macT isn't done yet. I could see him moving Hemsky for help on the 4th line or Coburn. Could be both ... he wants a far better checking line and D.

macT has already said he's getting impatient. I see another trade VERY soon. If they can't get Coburn for Hemsky - I could see Gagner in the mix then it becomes a larger trade. Could also be a sign and trade too.

Why do you think a Coburn deal would involve Hemsky? Philly wants to move salary not add it. Pretty sure the speculation at the draft was Coburn for 1 or both 2nd rd picks.

MacT said he is impatient months ago. Saying it and making something happen are 2 different things.

notloilersfan 07-12-2013 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bank Shot (Post 69146277)
I think you are undervaluing the defenisve ability of other team's top six. Like Detroit who has perrenial Selke candidate Pavel Datsyuk. Even with an injury Detroit has better top six centers as they have Zetterberg capable of playing the middle. Frazen is basically a 30 goal scorer the last 3 seasons. All in all Detroit's top six is better until proven otherwise.

All in all I think you have overvauled the Oilers in each category by 4-5 slots.

Fair opinion. Hopefully I didn't overvalue the bottom 6 by 5 spots. (only had 4 below us) :P

calvinguy 07-12-2013 09:36 PM

Individually our Top 6 is amazing, but together as a team we rank much lower. We have too much of the same type of players, small skilled forwards. Not to mention our top 2 centers can't win a face off to save their lives.

Six in O6 07-12-2013 09:38 PM

I'd say our top six is around 12th in the league due to a lack of experience, size and health over the last few years. Bottom six around 22nd or 23rd. Defense around the same, maybe a bit better at 20th, and goaltending about 16th. But none of this matters because we won't know until the end of the season how they really stack up.

thadd 07-13-2013 12:49 AM

Sadly, I fear that the OP overrates us a bit.

There are a few more teams with a better top six. Detroit comes to mind.

As for the D I think that's a fair rating... all depends on how good Klefbom is.


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