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-   -   A Team Of Destiny... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1472633)

Rorschach 07-20-2013 02:36 PM

A Team Of Destiny...
 
...or an incredible series of coincidences, accidents and other extraordinary occurrences that assisted the Kings to be built into what we have today, at the hands of Dean Lombardi.

Dean Lombardi works so hard that when favorable accidents occur, he's right there to reap the rewards. He's the anti-Jay Feaster.

Here's my list, so far, of all the amazing occurrences that helped build this team into the powerhouse it is today. List yours too and also feel free to list the events that screwed our development too.

NYR draft Hugh Jessiman...Kings have to "settle" for Dustin Brown.

Anze Kopitar is born big and tall, just Al Murray's type, yet is born in Slovenia instead of any number of nearby, "also little" countries that hockey people consider hockey hotbeds, causing him to fall in the draft to us.

Ilya Kovalchuk picks NJ instead (leaves NHL a few years later).
Brad Richards picks NYR instead (turns into a 3rd line center a few years later).
Ales Hemsky costs way too much, Tambo the Clown (now worth a fraction).
Ryan Smyth suddenly is homesick and asks for a trade, taking his huge anchor of a salary and his size 40 skates with him (few years later, he is barely a NHL player).
Thus opening the situation, causing the need, and making room room for us to acquire Jeff Carter, the King with the biggest increase in fandom love in LA.

Kings win one game too many, get the best player (IMO), best defenseman and best winner with the 2nd pick from the 2008 draft, and not possibly drafting Steven "shoot first, see teammates after" Stamkos.

Ed Snyder owns the Flyers, a few "opportune" pics and a lucky occurrence in the playoffs causes Chicago to win the Cup and the owner to make his GM trade Mike Richards.

Justin Williams gets injured one too many times and is way undervalued, is dealt for a flawed prospect (and later a 2nd is added) to the Kings in a three way deal. Now seen by many as straight up robbery. Neither of the other two teams gets much from the deal.

Herby 07-20-2013 03:02 PM

The Kings also wanted Viktor Tikhonov in 2008, he was swiped up a few picks before Voynov.

2008 draft was really interesting, it goes down as a big big win for the Kings getting Doughty and Voynov, it could have easily have been a generational draft had the Kings taken pretty much anyone other than Teubert, and while it would be hard to call any draft that you end up with Drew Doughty a failure, the Kings would be in a tough spot had they wasted picks on Teubert and Tikhonov.

On O'Sullivan, he wasn't really a prospect, the year before he was traded he scored 50 points in the NHL and was playing well when he was traded. It's just something between the ears with O'Sullivan. I don't think it was the Kings giving up on POS, it was just the need for the Kings to acquire a "bridge" type veteran player to help out some of the younger kids. This is something Edmonton should be doing right now, looking back it was a brilliant move by Lombardi, one of his best.

The Smyth deal was obviously awful and Dean did get lucky he wanted to leave, the Kings probably do not win the cup without Smyth wanting out. Two of Dean's worst moves, the Blake signing and Smyth trade were made after striking out in UFA (with Chara and Gaborik), and were likely panic moves. I think DL has learned his lesson about bringing in guys in their mid 30's on big contracts, it's just a poor strategy in a cap era.

deeshamrock 07-20-2013 05:35 PM

Quote:

Dan Snyder owns the Flyers, a few "opportune" pics and a lucky occurrence in the playoffs causes Chicago to win the Cup and the owner to make his GM trade Mike Richards.
Ah, the mysterious Dan Snyder, who must be Ed Snider, the real owner of the Flyers, Evil twin.
And that Cup run was 2010, Richards was traded 2011 and for none of the reasons listed.
And Dan and Ed conitinue to butcher the Flyers, giving very good young players to other teams where some of them win Cups, Patick Sharpe, Jeff Carter . Dennis Seidenberg, Joffrey Lupol, JVR and Bobrovsky.
And it won't end there...they won't make the playoffs this year and someone else will go.

MynameisKing 07-21-2013 03:43 AM

Leave Philly....Win Cups!

Williams, Gagner, LeClair, Recchi, Richards, Carter, Forsberg, Sharp, Seidenberg, Carcillo, Hextall, Lombardi, Stevens.................

Edit: Handzus!!!!!!

Randart 07-21-2013 05:22 AM

That is Amazing & Sad...
 
All at the same time my jaw hit the floor I never thought about this! God to be a Flyers fan!!! We Kings thought we had it rough, as many of our stars left to win cups with other teams. Guess we trully were the Flyers west! LOL

Glad we got that particular Monkey off our backs. Great work by Deano in keeping the young core in place and adding so much to it! He gets alot of credit and deserves it too!

deeshamrock 07-21-2013 07:57 AM

Quote:

Leave Philly....Win Cups!

Williams, Gagner, LeClair, Recchi, Richards, Carter, Forsberg, Sharp, Seidenberg, Carcillo, Hextall, Lombardi, Stevens.................

Edit: Handzus!!!!!!d
and BRind'amour

santiclaws 07-21-2013 11:53 AM

Visnovsky suddenly having a lousy season and getting traded to Edmonton for Stoll and Greene before his big contract kicked in.

Blackhawkswincup 07-21-2013 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeshamrock (Post 69444455)
and BRind'amour

Eager came back to haunt the Flyers as well (Scored GWG of game 2 of SCF in 2010)

Eager was traded to Hawks for Jim Vandermeer (Who was really never that good)

CNS 07-21-2013 06:05 PM

You're also forgetting the fact that Carter "didn't want" to play in CBJ and didn't work out there so they traded him. I don't even know if we make the playoffs without getting Carter.

Also, Herby are you saying acquiring Smyth was a bad deal? We have up Quincey, Preissing, and a pick. None of those really hurt us to give up and Smyth for a while was not a bad player. His last year he was and I'm ecstatic he's an ******* and wanted to bail on us but overall, it wasn't a bad deal. Even trading Smyth away, we got a ton of cap space and Fraser anchored that 4th line for the cup win. I'd call trading him away a win too clearly.

kingsfan 07-21-2013 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rorschach (Post 69425401)
...or an incredible series of coincidences, accidents and other extraordinary occurrences that assisted the Kings to be built into what we have today, at the hands of Dean Lombardi.

Dean Lombardi works so hard that when favorable accidents occur, he's right there to reap the rewards. He's the anti-Jay Feaster.

Here's my list, so far, of all the amazing occurrences that helped build this team into the powerhouse it is today. List yours too and also feel free to list the events that screwed our development too.

NYR draft Hugh Jessiman...Kings have to "settle" for Dustin Brown.

Anze Kopitar is born big and tall, just Al Murray's type, yet is born in Slovenia instead of any number of nearby, "also little" countries that hockey people consider hockey hotbeds, causing him to fall in the draft to us.

Ilya Kovalchuk picks NJ instead (leaves NHL a few years later).
Brad Richards picks NYR instead (turns into a 3rd line center a few years later).
Ales Hemsky costs way too much, Tambo the Clown (now worth a fraction).
Ryan Smyth suddenly is homesick and asks for a trade, taking his huge anchor of a salary and his size 40 skates with him (few years later, he is barely a NHL player).
Thus opening the situation, causing the need, and making room room for us to acquire Jeff Carter, the King with the biggest increase in fandom love in LA.

Kings win one game too many, get the best player (IMO), best defenseman and best winner with the 2nd pick from the 2008 draft, and not possibly drafting Steven "shoot first, see teammates after" Stamkos.

Dan Snyder owns the Flyers, a few "opportune" pics and a lucky occurrence in the playoffs causes Chicago to win the Cup and the owner to make his GM trade Mike Richards.

Justin Williams gets injured one too many times and is way undervalued, is dealt for a flawed prospect (and later a 2nd is added) to the Kings in a three way deal. Now seen by many as straight up robbery. Neither of the other two teams gets much from the deal.

I'd imagine all teams can credit their 'fortune' to luck the way you've broke it down.

I mean you say we had to settle for Brown for example. Basically every team that drafts after 1st overall has to settle for someone. Everyone you get after the 1st round definately has an element of luck to it, since virtually every team has had a shot at drafting that player. I mean, how lucky is Detroit with Federov, Zetterberg and Datsyuk over the years, or even having to settle for Yzerman?

Also, don't you think there is a reason Kovalchuk didn't pick us? Maybe because we weren't going to offer him what NJ did. Hemsky isn't luck, it's DL recognizing he wasn't worth what Tambo wanted. That's just smart, not luck.

If you were to break down things for Chicago this year for example, they likely could point out just as much 'luck' in winning the cup this year, starting with them lucking into Niemi getting an arbitration award to high for them, forcing them to turn over the reins to Crawford who would win the Conn Smythe three years later.

Bottom line is often, the luck balances out and what makes a team a cup champ is skill, not luck.

Rorschach 07-22-2013 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeshamrock (Post 69431365)
Ah, the mysterious Dan Snyder, who must be Ed Snider, the real owner of the Flyers, Evil twin.
And that Cup run was 2010, Richards was traded 2011 and for none of the reasons listed.
And Dan and Ed conitinue to butcher the Flyers, giving very good young players to other teams where some of them win Cups, Patick Sharpe, Jeff Carter . Dennis Seidenberg, Joffrey Lupol, JVR and Bobrovsky.
And it won't end there...they won't make the playoffs this year and someone else will go.

I'm gonna fix that...as soon as I read it, I was like...oh yeah, FU Dany Heatley!

Rorschach 07-22-2013 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsfan (Post 69462959)
I'd imagine all teams can credit their 'fortune' to luck the way you've broke it down.

I mean you say we had to settle for Brown for example. Basically every team that drafts after 1st overall has to settle for someone. Everyone you get after the 1st round definately has an element of luck to it, since virtually every team has had a shot at drafting that player. I mean, how lucky is Detroit with Federov, Zetterberg and Datsyuk over the years, or even having to settle for Yzerman?

Also, don't you think there is a reason Kovalchuk didn't pick us? Maybe because we weren't going to offer him what NJ did. Hemsky isn't luck, it's DL recognizing he wasn't worth what Tambo wanted. That's just smart, not luck.

If you were to break down things for Chicago this year for example, they likely could point out just as much 'luck' in winning the cup this year, starting with them lucking into Niemi getting an arbitration award to high for them, forcing them to turn over the reins to Crawford who would win the Conn Smythe three years later.

Bottom line is often, the luck balances out and what makes a team a cup champ is skill, not luck.

What are you trying to say? lol

We should have gotten Kovalchuk. The owners in NJ suddenly went strange and for the only time in the Brodeur era of NJ history, they went after a superstar, probably at the great reluctance of Lou Lam.

And no, if you look at Chicago's thing, it's not anything like ours. :)

tigermask48 07-22-2013 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnshockey (Post 69459725)
Also, Herby are you saying acquiring Smyth was a bad deal? We have up Quincey, Preissing, and a pick. None of those really hurt us to give up and Smyth for a while was not a bad player. His last year he was and I'm ecstatic he's an ******* and wanted to bail on us but overall, it wasn't a bad deal. Even trading Smyth away, we got a ton of cap space and Fraser anchored that 4th line for the cup win. I'd call trading him away a win too clearly.

Herby has always hated that trade to an extreme. If I remember right he doesn't think Smyth brought anything to the Kings and was a detriment the whole time he was here. I think it was clear that he gassed badly towards the end of every season he was here, but I also think he did a lot of good while he was here. It's not like Quincey was that valuable of an asset and Preissing was an albatross of a contract and getting Smyth in return was a great recovery for a dumb signing. Plus I'd say Williams and Kopitar wouldn't have the chemistry that those two do right now if it wasn't partly for Smyth playing with those two. Both of those two really started clicking when they were put with Smyth.

People tend to forget how bad the 4th line was before Fraser was healthy. Before he made it into the lineup the Kings had probably the worst 4th line in the NHL that year cycling guys like Hunter, Moreau, Richardson, Clifford, and Westgarth on that line. None of them worked and that line was awful. Fraser was the spark that turned it into a great line once, that got even better once Nolan was thrown in there, it gave the Kings 4 consistent lines to roll against opponents. I thought that 4th line had some of the most memorable shifts of the playoffs. They used to get put out after penalties and powerplays and they almost always turned momentum in the Kings favor with their tenacious forecheck and speed. Just a great line that was a pain to play against, and hit everything that moved.

Quote:

We should have gotten Kovalchuk. The owners in NJ suddenly went strange and for the only time in the Brodeur era of NJ history, they went after a superstar, probably at the great reluctance of Lou Lam.
I honestly think that the Devs going after Kovi so hard and giving out that deal was them realizing that after Broduer was gone they had no one left to build a team around. Parise vanishes in big games, their pipeline didn't have much outside of very good 2nd and 3rd liners. No franchise player to be found anywhere. They needed Kovi, and had to be able to build around him for years. The team first concept that Jersey sells really only works when your team has a franchise guy that makes everyone better (see Brodeur,) they thought Kovi was that guy.

BigBrown 07-22-2013 09:20 AM

I think seen as a whole, acquiring Smyth was a good move. His production, outside of the first 25-ish games or so, wasn't great but he made up for it in the playoffs where he was one of the Kings' best players, especially that first year when the Kings made the playoff for the first time in forever.

Moving him out was an even better move though, he was on a serious decline and Fraser really gave the fourth line an identity and having Smyth of the books made room for greater things for the Kings.

kingsfan 07-22-2013 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rorschach (Post 69472981)

And no, if you look at Chicago's thing, it's not anything like ours. :)

How so?

jfont 07-22-2013 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsfan (Post 69462959)
If you were to break down things for Chicago this year for example, they likely could point out just as much 'luck' in winning the cup this year, starting with them lucking into Niemi getting an arbitration award to high for them, forcing them to turn over the reins to Crawford who would win the Conn Smythe three years later.

Crawford did not win the Conn Smythe trophy

Flour Child 07-22-2013 12:38 PM

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lf...w4f3o1_500.jpg

Rorschach 07-22-2013 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnshockey (Post 69459725)
You're also forgetting the fact that Carter "didn't want" to play in CBJ and didn't work out there so they traded him. I don't even know if we make the playoffs without getting Carter.

I thought about that but...
1) their motive to trade for him kinda made sense, center for Nash
2) it's not like it's strange for a star player to not want to wind up in CBJ, arguably the worst team in the league at the time
3) CBJ paid a lot and Carter was thought to be tradable...his deal was not shocking like the Richards deal

Rorschach 07-22-2013 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by santiclaws (Post 69448345)
Visnovsky suddenly having a lousy season and getting traded to Edmonton for Stoll and Greene before his big contract kicked in.

Good one! Do you have any details on why he had such a season...injury?

Rorschach 07-22-2013 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herby (Post 69426521)
The Kings also wanted Viktor Tikhonov in 2008, he was swiped up a few picks before Voynov.

2008 draft was really interesting, it goes down as a big big win for the Kings getting Doughty and Voynov, it could have easily have been a generational draft had the Kings taken pretty much anyone other than Teubert, and while it would be hard to call any draft that you end up with Drew Doughty a failure, the Kings would be in a tough spot had they wasted picks on Teubert and Tikhonov.

.

I'll add this as well when I get home.

I still feel that the Kings were trying to develop POS and it wasn't going well at all but he obviously had points like you said because the original deal was him straight up, only because it leaked did DL have to add a second.

kingsfan 07-22-2013 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfont (Post 69482687)
Crawford did not win the Conn Smythe trophy

My apologizes, got mixed up somehow.

Either way, my point still stands.


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