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-   -   Speculation: Sergey Tolchinsky NYR Bound? [Nope! Signs with Canes 8/22] (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1474951)

Joey Bones 07-24-2013 04:19 PM

Sergey Tolchinsky NYR Bound? [Nope! Signs with Canes 8/22]
 
http://network.yardbarker.com/nhl/ar...radar/14111870

Thought this was really interesting. Obviously we can't do anything until we sign Stepan & Zucc, but wouldn't mind this at all.

-31- 07-24-2013 04:32 PM

Why would he only be able to sign with the Hurricanes and Rangers?

Tawnos 07-24-2013 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joey Bones (Post 69573619)
http://network.yardbarker.com/nhl/ar...radar/14111870

Thought this was really interesting. Obviously we can't do anything until we sign Stepan & Zucc, but wouldn't mind this at all.

No way is this guy getting a one-way deal, so Stepan and Zuccarellos situations have no bearing on it.

rmcg11 07-24-2013 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31- (Post 69574053)
Why would he only be able to sign with the Hurricanes and Rangers?

apparently its due to the fact that the rangers and canes signed him to tryout agreements for their development camps.

Clowes Line 07-24-2013 04:44 PM

Am I the only person saying, "Who the **** is Sergey Tolchinsky?"

Brodeur 07-24-2013 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31- (Post 69574053)
Why would he only be able to sign with the Hurricanes and Rangers?

I was curious about that as well. Writer might be making an incorrect assumption that Tolchinsky can only sign with teams with whom he attended camp. Albeit, that's usually how this happens. Usually we'll hear of a few undrafted guys that turn some heads at summer camps and earn contract offers. In particular, the Sharks signed Michael Sgarbossa a couple years back and he ended up winning the OHL scoring title in 2012. The Kings signed Martin Jones who went undrafted and later represented Canada at the WJC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tawnos (Post 69574155)
No way is this guy getting a one-way deal, so Stepan and Zuccarellos situations have no bearing on it.

Tolchinsky would be required to sign an ELC. He probably wouldn't be sniffing at an NHL roster spot for a couple seasons, so he'd be independent to anything involving Stepan/Zuccarello.

RangerBoy 07-24-2013 04:48 PM

Entry level SPCs are two way.

Jim Ramsay 07-24-2013 04:48 PM

A few weeks ago when there was the developmental camp, Tolchinsky stuck out every time I saw him on camera...he is very slippery as a player and seemed to make things happen with the puck every time.

Unfortunately he is VERY tiny and I don't know how he would maintain over the course of a professional season, but if there was any way that the rangers could make room to offer him a pro contract I would definitely be on board with giving him a chance.

It also helps that Kirk Muller called him one of the standouts of their camp as well....

-31- 07-24-2013 04:52 PM

I've never heard about an undrafted free agent having a limited number of teams that he can sign with.

If the Rangers were to sign him (and I'm not sure why he wouldn't have to go back into the draft) he wouldn't count towards the 50 contract limit unless he played in 10 NHL games.

Vagrant 07-24-2013 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur (Post 69574547)
I was curious about that as well. Writer might be making an incorrect assumption that Tolchinsky can only sign with teams with whom he attended camp. Albeit, that's usually how this happens. Usually we'll hear of a few undrafted guys that turn some heads at summer camps and earn contract offers. In particular, the Sharks signed Michael Sgarbossa a couple years back and he ended up winning the OHL scoring title in 2012. The Kings signed Martin Jones who went undrafted and later represented Canada at the WJC.



Tolchinsky would be required to sign an ELC. He probably wouldn't be sniffing at an NHL roster spot for a couple seasons, so he'd be independent to anything involving Stepan/Zuccarello.

The writer cited a twitter post from, what I suppose, is an expert on the matter that said "The TEAM (emphasis mine; as in singular) that has the player on a tryout agreement can sign him up until September". The problem here being that both Carolina as well as New York have had him on tryouts. Also something to note is the new CBA... which those examples were signed before.

I was under the impression that New York had contract concerns, as in too close to 50 total player contracts, to extend him an offer immediately. Carolina has no such issues, but as far as I know they have not extended him any kind of formal offer. Teams usually like to stay 2 or 3 contracts below the limit to facilitate trades during the season as well as to sign their own picks when the time is right. A little bubble for injury reasons too.

Tolchinsky tore it apart at Carolina's camp and scored 2 goals in our only scrimmage of the camp. He was dynamic.

It should be interesting to see which way it goes. I could as easily see one of our teams offering him as him going back to Soo and getting drafted in 2014.

Vagrant 07-24-2013 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31- (Post 69574753)
I've never heard about an undrafted free agent having a limited number of teams that he can sign with.

If the Rangers were to sign him (and I'm not sure why he wouldn't have to go back into the draft) he wouldn't count towards the 50 contract limit unless he played in 10 NHL games.

This list should help:

http://www.capgeek.com/rangers/reserve-list/

Cap Geek has NYR at 45 contracts, including ELC contracts, with Mashinter, Zucc, and Stepan pending. Entry Level contracts do actually count towards the 50 limit.

Joey Bones 07-24-2013 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tawnos (Post 69574155)
No way is this guy getting a one-way deal, so Stepan and Zuccarellos situations have no bearing on it.

Obviously not. Entry level contracts are two-way. I only said that because they should be our main focus & then go after Tolchinsky. Once that's done they could do whatever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmcg11 (Post 69574509)
apparently its due to the fact that the rangers and canes signed him to tryout agreements for their development camps.

Correct. No other team can grab him except for those two, but they have until the beginning of the OHL season to do so. Once that season starts, he is draft eligible where IMO he won't get passed over again.

bernmeister 07-24-2013 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Ramsay (Post 69574633)
A few weeks ago when there was the developmental camp, Tolchinsky stuck out every time I saw him on camera...he is very slippery as a player and seemed to make things happen with the puck every time.

Unfortunately he is VERY tiny and I don't know how he would maintain over the course of a professional season, but if there was any way that the rangers could make room to offer him a pro contract I would definitely be on board with giving him a chance.

It also helps that Kirk Muller called him one of the standouts of their camp as well....

Thought I read that number was 5'6". If so, I agree.

Still, maybe we can move Bourque who is a bit taller but not a great frame, and gamble on this guy, just in case.

-31- 07-24-2013 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vagrant (Post 69574943)
This list should help:

http://www.capgeek.com/rangers/reserve-list/

Cap Geek has NYR at 45 contracts, including ELC contracts, with Mashinter, Zucc, and Stepan pending. Entry Level contracts do actually count towards the 50 limit.

Entry level contracts "slide" to the next season if the player is under 20 and doesn't play in 10 NHL games. If they slide they don't count towards the 50 limit.

Joey Bones 07-24-2013 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernmeister (Post 69575053)
Thought I read that number was 5'6". If so, I agree.

Still, maybe we can move Bourque who is a bit taller but not a great frame, and gamble on this guy, just in case.

According to the article, he is listed at 5'8".

Vagrant 07-24-2013 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31- (Post 69575119)
Entry level contracts "slide" to the next season if the player is under 20 and doesn't play in 10 NHL games. If they slide they don't count towards the 50 limit.

True, but I don't think that means a team can exceed the limit at any point in time though right? I know that the clock on the ELC does not start until a player suits up professionally, but I don't think playing in the NHL is the criteria for the 50 player limit or it wouldn't even be a realistic concern for even the most injury plagued teams in history. I'm almost certain that the ELCs count towards the limit, with or without sliding.

Brodeur 07-24-2013 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31- (Post 69574753)
If the Rangers were to sign him (and I'm not sure why he wouldn't have to go back into the draft) he wouldn't count towards the 50 contract limit unless he played in 10 NHL games.

There was a new clause in the 2005 CBA which remains with the new one to the best of my knowledge (I think somebody on the prospect board verified this previously). There's a window during the summer (in a nutshell, before the player's junior season resumed in the fall) where a team can sign an undrafted player with remaining draft eligibility.

The only catch was that the player had to have played the previous season in North America. Sgarbossa/Jones were a couple semi-notable players who signed ELCs rather than re-entering the draft.

I think in 2009, Radko Gudas made quite an impression at the Kings summer camp. But because he played the previous season in the Czech Republic, LA couldn't sign him even though Gudas was going to go play in the WHL that fall. Gudas would then re-enter the 2010 Draft and get taken by Tampa.

The Flyers learned this rule the hard way a couple years later. They invited Tomas Hyka to their summer camp and signed him to a contract. The NHL rejected the deal since Hyka didn't play in North America the previous year. Hyka would re-enter the 2012 draft and get taken by the Kings.

Joey Bones 07-24-2013 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clowes Line (Post 69574511)
Am I the only person saying, "Who the **** is Sergey Tolchinsky?"

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K0pl_dqdxhI

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SCEnXaKaGHo

-31- 07-24-2013 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vagrant (Post 69575185)
True, but I don't think that means a team can exceed the limit at any point in time though right? I know that the clock on the ELC does not start until a player suits up professionally, but I don't think playing in the NHL is the criteria for the 50 player limit or it wouldn't even be a realistic concern for even the most injury plagued teams in history. I'm almost certain that the ELCs count towards the limit, with or without sliding.

If they count towards the limit, the Rangers had 51 contracts last season.

Championship* 07-24-2013 05:16 PM

Sounds impressive, hope we can get him.

-31- 07-24-2013 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur (Post 69575281)
There was a new clause in the 2005 CBA which remains with the new one to the best of my knowledge (I think somebody on the prospect board verified this previously). There's a window during the summer (in a nutshell, before the player's junior season resumed in the fall) where a team can sign an undrafted player with remaining draft eligibility.

The only catch was that the player had to have played the previous season in North America. Sgarbossa/Jones were a couple semi-notable players who signed ELCs rather than re-entering the draft.

I think in 2009, Radko Gudas made quite an impression at the Kings summer camp. But because he played the previous season in the Czech Republic, LA couldn't sign him even though Gudas was going to go play in the WHL that fall. Gudas would then re-enter the 2010 Draft and get taken by Tampa.

The Flyers learned this rule the hard way a couple years later. They invited Tomas Hyka to their summer camp and signed him to a contract. The NHL rejected the deal since Hyka didn't play in North America the previous year. Hyka would re-enter the 2012 draft and get taken by the Kings.

Thanks.

NYR2007 07-24-2013 05:31 PM

no more small guys please !!!!!!!!!!

Vagrant 07-24-2013 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31- (Post 69575419)
If they count towards the limit, the Rangers had 51 contracts last season.

I can't explain the basis of how that happened, but I do know what I said regarding two way contracts is true. If it weren't, the big market teams would just spend financially at will to sign every available prospect that wasn't drafted and not worry about the implications. The contract limit allows for competition.

I Eat Crow 07-24-2013 05:35 PM

Oh please, this guy brings skill, something our prospect pool is still bereft of. I don't care if he's Pee Wee Herman, if he keeps his head up and isn't a purely perimeter player, the guy has the skill to be a very good prospect for us

And yes, it would be a two way deal. He would go back to juniors for at least one more season.

-31- 07-24-2013 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vagrant (Post 69576099)
I can't explain the basis of how that happened, but I do know what I said regarding two way contracts is true. If it weren't, the big market teams would just spend financially at will to sign every available prospect that wasn't drafted and not worry about the implications. The contract limit allows for competition.

Except for when the two "slide" years are over, they would have a billion contracts.


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