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-   -   Prospect Info: Rangers Prospects Poll: Summer 2013 Results (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1476755)

Beacon 07-28-2013 03:36 AM

Rangers Prospects Poll: Summer 2013 Results
 
After over a month of voting, we have our Summer Prospect Poll Results. This is one of the deepest lists we've had in a long time.


TOP PROSPECTS

1. LW Chris Kreider
2. C J.T. Miller
3. D Dylan McIlrath
4. C Oscar Lindberg
5. RW Jesper Fast


SECOND TIER

6. RW Danny Kristo
7. D Brady Skjei
8. C Cristoval Nieves
9. LW Marek Hrivik
10. C Michael St. Croix


PROJECTS

11. LW Andrew Yogan
12. LW Pavel Buchnevich
13. G Cam Talbot
14. D Sam Noreau
15. D Conor Allen


SUSPECTS

16. LW Anthony Duclair
17. D Calle Andersson
18. LW Adam Tambellini
19. C Steven Fogarty
20. RW Josh Nicholls


LONG SHOTS

21. RW Thomas Spelling
22. LW Ryan Bourque
23. D Ryan Graves
24. C Kyle Jean
25. G Jason Missiaen


HONORABLE MENTIONS

26. G Mackenzie Skapski
27. D Tommy Hughes
28. RW Michael Kantor
29. G Scott Stajcer
30. LW Jason Wilson


http://trueblueiamaranger.files.word...57cd4a17_o.jpg

I Eat Crow 07-28-2013 03:53 AM

We're not even close to the top 10. Closer to 15-20. No 1st and 2nd rounder this past year and a high number of graduations in recent years has left us weaker than we were 3 years ago.

The Islanders and Detroit in particular are quietly building juggernauts through the draft.

Beacon 07-28-2013 10:53 AM

The Islanders will need to figure out their goalie situation first. They will also need to get quite lucky with their defensemen prospects. They have a long way to.go before establishing themselves as consistent contenders.

RangersFan 07-28-2013 12:15 PM

closer to bottom 10 than top 10

BrooklynRangersFan 07-28-2013 12:42 PM

I dunno, I think it's a pretty good group. It's certainly a DEEP group and that's almost as important as having top end talent.

The key to me comes down to these guys:

Quote:

TOP PROSPECTS

1. LW Chris Kreider
2. C J.T. Miller
3. D Dylan McIlrath
4. C Oscar Lindberg
5. RW Jesper Fast



SECOND TIER

6. RW Danny Kristo
7. D Brady Skjei
8. C Cristoval Nieves
9. LW Marek Hrivik
10. C Michael St. Croix



PROJECTS

11. LW Andrew Yogan
12. LW Pavel Buchnevich
13. G Cam Talbot
14. D Sam Noreau
15. D Conor Allen


SUSPECTS

16. LW Anthony Duclair
17. D Calle Andersson
18. LW Adam Tambellini
19. C Steven Fogarty
20. RW Josh Nicholls


LONG SHOTS

21. RW Thomas Spelling
22. LW Ryan Bourque
23. D Ryan Graves
24. C Kyle Jean
25. G Jason Missiaen


HONORABLE MENTIONS

26. G Mackenzie Skapski
27. D Tommy Hughes
28. RW Michael Kantor
29. G Scott Stajcer
30. LW Jason Wilson
All of these guys have shown glimpses of being better than their draft positions. Can they keep developing?

We (think) we know what we've got with our D prospects and with Kreider and Miller, but for years we've decried the lack of top end offensive skill in our forward prospects. And, while we don't have any obvious MacKinnons or Yakupovs in the system, the highlighted players represent a SLEW of guys who look like they could be later round/undrafted gems at forward. If only one or two of them develops, that leapfrogs this group right up to the top of the pack.

We should have a much better read by this time next year - if not by the holidays. Unlike last season, this should be an exciting year to be a Rangers fan on HF...

Trxjw 07-29-2013 09:16 AM

I think it's a pretty balanced group of prospects. Still somewhat alarming that we're lacking a legitimate PMD prospect or a goalie with NHL starter potential.

Fogarty is way, way too low.

kovazub94 07-29-2013 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trxjw (Post 69723181)
I think it's a pretty balanced group of prospects. Still somewhat alarming that we're lacking a legitimate PMD prospect or a goalie with NHL starter potential.

Fogarty is way, way too low.

Fogarty should have done better offensively last season. This is a reason he's next to our current 3rd round picks.

Trxjw 07-29-2013 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kovazub94 (Post 69723847)
Fogarty should have done better offensively last season. This is a reason he's next to our current 3rd round picks.

The reason is simply that there are too many posters who emphasize offense above all else. The kid wound up on a tremendously deep Penticton team and instead of complaining about the depth, he established himself as the go-to defensive center on the team. He carried that role into UND where he was down the depth chart due to some very good upperclassmen in front of him. He's turned himself into a viable two-way center prospect after being initially pegged as not having the two-way game to be a center at the pro level. That's a significant progression in his development, but unfortunately it doesn't show up on the stat sheet and that's what the majority of posters around here care about and/or base their decisions on.

Beacon 07-29-2013 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trxjw (Post 69726257)
The kid wound up on a tremendously deep Penticton team

This is a false argument. "Tremendously deep" compared to what? Compared to the BCHL teams, which is a second-rate junior league. Yes, this team is comparatively deep, but the same squad in college or junior hockey, would've been below average.

N9Y4R 07-29-2013 11:50 AM

8 of our top 10 and 12 of our top 15 could be playing together in the A. Granted a couple could be in the show and a couple could be in the EC. A lot of solid prospects getting close.

Trxjw 07-29-2013 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beacon (Post 69727445)
This is a false argument. "Tremendously deep" compared to what? Compared to the BCHL teams, which is a second-rate junior league. Yes, this team is comparatively deep, but the same squad in college or junior hockey, would've been below average.

He found himself in a spot where he had to adapt to a new role because the team had several veteran players ahead of him at center. He did just that. Yet instead of being lauded for his mental strength, ability to adapt, and vastly improved defensive play, he gets pegged as a guy who couldn't beat out scrubs and score more points in a 'second rate' league.

Like it or not, that team had a lot of offensive skill and Fogarty simply wasn't the most skilled center on the team. Instead of whining about it he showed the determination and commitment to improve his game and turn himself into a well-rounded player. All while still putting up decent numbers and anchoring a line with two guys (Benik and Gervais) who had little idea what the defensive zone even looked like.

I'm pleased with the development he's shown. The offense has always been the least of my concerns and I expect that will be proven with a larger role with Notre Dame this season. So far I've seen nothing in his game that would make me even consider the notion of him having stalled out in his development.

Raspewtin 07-29-2013 12:45 PM

think we're a 11-15 ranked prospect system. We don't have any UNF players (it's not clear yet, at least) but we have serious depth at forward and defense. A lot of our forwards have very good potential. A lot of them are hitting their stride at the same time however (like 10 of the top 15 will play for the AHL this year :O) which might make it difficult.

PS I still want to know how Marek Hrivik was never drafted?

NYR Viper 07-29-2013 12:45 PM

I'm not sure I agree with Kantor being that low. Heart and Soul player who will drop the gloves, PK and hit? Skates pretty well too. His main knock is a lack of hockey sense/creativity with the puck. Sounds like a 4th liner to me.

NYR Viper 07-29-2013 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billyhauntswizards (Post 69729265)
think we're a 11-15 ranked prospect system. We don't have any UNF players (it's not clear yet, at least) but we have serious depth at forward and defense. A lot of our forwards have very good potential. A lot of them are hitting their stride at the same time however (like 10 of the top 15 will play for the AHL this year :O) which might make it difficult.

PS I still want to know how Marek Hrivik was never drafted?

Slow footspeed, never put up a ton of points in Junior, not overly flashy, was on a bad team and put in a defensive system.

He's a gem.

HockeyBasedNYC 07-29-2013 12:54 PM

The Rangers have done a good job of drafting, with the picks they've had.

I think they are smack dab in the middle 14-17 of the NHL in terms of rankings.

kovazub94 07-29-2013 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trxjw (Post 69726257)
The reason is simply that there are too many posters who emphasize offense above all else. The kid wound up on a tremendously deep Penticton team and instead of complaining about the depth, he established himself as the go-to defensive center on the team. He carried that role into UND where he was down the depth chart due to some very good upperclassmen in front of him. He's turned himself into a viable two-way center prospect after being initially pegged as not having the two-way game to be a center at the pro level. That's a significant progression in his development, but unfortunately it doesn't show up on the stat sheet and that's what the majority of posters around here care about and/or base their decisions on.

His improved two-way play at Penticton was reflected in his last season's ranking. IMHO he should have done more this year at ND and it's probably a general consensus.

Trxjw 07-29-2013 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kovazub94 (Post 69732759)
His improved two-way play at Penticton was reflected in his last season's ranking. IMHO he should have done more this year at ND and it's probably a general consensus.

At worst this year he stayed level against a higher level of competition, but I'm just going to disagree with the 'consensus' that ranked a kid who regressed in his draft year ahead of him and be done with it.

vipernsx 07-29-2013 03:06 PM

There are close to 10 guys who have legit NHL potential in the next 1-2yrs. Not many organizations have that kind of organizational depth. Although there are holes, PMD, Goalie, high end talent, I still rank the Rangers in the top10 because of the overall depth of truly potential NHL players.

Beacon 07-30-2013 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trxjw (Post 69728627)
He found himself in a spot where he had to adapt to a new role because the team had several veteran players ahead of him at center. He did just that. Yet instead of being lauded for his mental strength, ability to adapt, and vastly improved defensive play, he gets pegged as a guy who couldn't beat out scrubs and score more points in a 'second rate' league.


Because the fact remains that he COULD NOT beat out the scrubs in a second rate league. The argument that he was on a loaded team reminds me of the argument that Pashnin was drafted first overall in the KHL. In each case, the two of them were competing against low-end competition.

Foggy's team was loaded in comparison to a BCHL team. It was downright crappy in comparison to a college team.

If you had it right and he was a great player who was accidentally behind a few great players on a monstrous BCHL team, then upon going to college, he'd have been at least on par with a kid like Nieves, who's a year younger. But instead, he did what anyone does the year after being a BCHL third liner - he became an NCAA 4th liner.

Once again, there are excuses as if ND was some legendary team. It wasn't. It wasn't even the best college team, not even close. He was a 4th liner in the NCAA for the same reason he was a 3rd liner in the BCHL. And I don't want to hear that he's a freshman. He was 19 years old and (physically) a very well developed one too.

I hope he develops next year, but he's done absolutely nothing the previous two seasons to be happy about. There's absolutely nothing about his game that you look at and think, "yes, this is what he's excelling at". Instead, we keep hearing excuses about how good his BCHL and NCAA teams are, excuses that are ridiculous because neither of his teams was particularly legendary.

Beacon 07-30-2013 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vipernsx (Post 69733815)
There are close to 10 guys who have legit NHL potential in the next 1-2yrs. Not many organizations have that kind of organizational depth. Although there are holes, PMD, Goalie, high end talent, I still rank the Rangers in the top10 because of the overall depth of truly potential NHL players.


I think we have some of the best depth in the last 4-5 polls.

Zil 07-30-2013 12:49 AM

People keep saying we don't have a pmd prospect. What does that make Calle Andersson?

Trxjw 07-30-2013 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beacon (Post 69751727)
Because the fact remains that he COULD NOT beat out the scrubs in a second rate league. The argument that he was on a loaded team reminds me of the argument that Pashnin was drafted first overall in the KHL. In each case, the two of them were competing against low-end competition.

Foggy's team was loaded in comparison to a BCHL team. It was downright crappy in comparison to a college team.

If you had it right and he was a great player who was accidentally behind a few great players on a monstrous BCHL team, then upon going to college, he'd have been at least on par with a kid like Nieves, who's a year younger. But instead, he did what anyone does the year after being a BCHL third liner - he became an NCAA 4th liner.

Once again, there are excuses as if ND was some legendary team. It wasn't. It wasn't even the best college team, not even close. He was a 4th liner in the NCAA for the same reason he was a 3rd liner in the BCHL. And I don't want to hear that he's a freshman. He was 19 years old and (physically) a very well developed one too.

I hope he develops next year, but he's done absolutely nothing the previous two seasons to be happy about. There's absolutely nothing about his game that you look at and think, "yes, this is what he's excelling at". Instead, we keep hearing excuses about how good his BCHL and NCAA teams are, excuses that are ridiculous because neither of his teams was particularly legendary.

It really boils down to there's a seniority in NCAA hockey that you continue to refuse to acknowledge. Fogarty stepping onto a UND team with a chance to make some noise is far different than Nieves stepping onto a Michigan team that was a bottom feeder. He wasn't going to beat out Tynan or Lee for the top-two center spots, and Jackson played the hell out of his energy line that was centered by Gerths. There wasn't room. That kind of thing happens all the time to kids in the NCAA, even the ones with pedigree. The team doesn't have to be 'legendary' for that to happen.

He was also getting top-six minutes in the BCHL, and, as I said, was the defensive stalwart between two of their best offensive wingers. If you want to argue the merits of the league I can't stop you, but don't ignore the points that validate that the kid took a major area of concern and improved by leaps and bounds. Was he the best center they had offensively? No, but he was certainly the most well-rounded one. Something that could not be said about him during his draft year. Once again, that shows marked improvement.

Long and short, I've pointed out several times that his defensive game has improved tremendously and that makes him a more viable prospect, and all you can do is harp on the bit about the quality of competition. Just agree to disagree at this point. Tired of arguing in circles.

Trxjw 07-30-2013 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zil (Post 69752365)
People keep saying we don't have a pmd prospect. What does that make Calle Andersson?

We need a legitimate PMD prospect. Andersson is a project at best.

HatTrick Swayze 07-30-2013 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trxjw (Post 69757273)
It really boils down to there's a seniority in NCAA hockey that you continue to refuse to acknowledge. Fogarty stepping onto a UND team with a chance to make some noise is far different than Nieves stepping onto a Michigan team that was a bottom feeder. He wasn't going to beat out Tynan or Lee for the top-two center spots, and Jackson played the hell out of his energy line that was centered by Gerths. There wasn't room. That kind of thing happens all the time to kids in the NCAA, even the ones with pedigree. The team doesn't have to be 'legendary' for that to happen.

He was also getting top-six minutes in the BCHL, and, as I said, was the defensive stalwart between two of their best offensive wingers. If you want to argue the merits of the league I can't stop you, but don't ignore the points that validate that the kid took a major area of concern and improved by leaps and bounds. Was he the best center they had offensively? No, but he was certainly the most well-rounded one. Something that could not be said about him during his draft year. Once again, that shows marked improvement.

Long and short, I've pointed out several times that his defensive game has improved tremendously and that makes him a more viable prospect, and all you can do is harp on the bit about the quality of competition. Just agree to disagree at this point. Tired of arguing in circles.

Fully agreed. Not to mention Jeff Jackson does not run anything like the kind of high octane offense you see at say, BC. This forum would have the pitchforks out if he ran the NYR the way he runs ND. I do think its fair to rank Fogarty where he is because he hasn't taken that full next step offensively yet (I would argue this years 3rd rounders got a bit overhyped because we had no 1st/2nd but that's a different argument). He has to seize the opportunity in front of him this year. But I believe in the kid's talent. When he got PP looks he made some great plays.

ocarina 07-30-2013 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beacon (Post 69727445)
This is a false argument. "Tremendously deep" compared to what? Compared to the BCHL teams, which is a second-rate junior league. Yes, this team is comparatively deep, but the same squad in college or junior hockey, would've been below average.

BCHL a second-rate league? It's one of the best Junior A leagues out there next to the USHL. I did a quick look up of that Penticton team, twelve guys on that team either are now playing D-I or are committed to D-I schools. Of course it's a lower level than college hockey, but everything I've read about Fogarty is that he is continuing to progress and improve on his game, despite being on a very good and deep Notre Dame team.

I think these rankings are far too influenced on looking at a player's statsheet, and performances in minor things like development camps. There is no way a guy like Duclair, who regressed in his draft year and has more to prove, should be ranked higher than Fogarty. Same thing with Tambellini.


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