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-   -   Player Discussion: Koon and Duper Over the Last Two Seasons: Is This the New Normal? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1478871)

Crafton 08-01-2013 12:51 PM

Koon and Duper Over the Last Two Seasons: Is This the New Normal?
 
PlayerGPGAPPPGP Rank+/-
Chris Kunitz13048651130.87846
Pascal Dupuis1304552970.752549

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points

i'd like to step away from two particular 'issues': (1) obviously these two are benefiting tremendously from playing with Crosby (and in the case of Kunitz, playing last year with Malkin and Neal) and (2) KCD is a post-season plague that will doom this team...

now that we got those two thoughts out of the way, do you think the level of production that these two have shown over the last two seasons is representative of a genuine 'new level' of play or are we witnessing an extended aberration?

Rowdy Roddy Peeper 08-01-2013 01:04 PM

I think last year will be their career years. But we can at least count on Kunitz to stay a ~60 point guy and Dupes to stay a ~50 point guy for the next couple seasons so long as they stay on scoring lines. Still great deals.

Shady Machine 08-01-2013 01:13 PM

I think Kunitz had a career year and will settle back into 60 points over 82 games. Duper is hard to tell since prior to 11-12, his career high was 48 points with a bunch of lower seasons around it. I expect him somewhere in the 45-55 range but who knows.

Til the End of Time 08-01-2013 01:16 PM

dont really care about their regular season numbers, i just know the sooner dupuis is off sid's line the better this team will be.

Ogrezilla 08-01-2013 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Til the End of Time (Post 69836177)
dont really care about their regular season numbers, i just know the sooner dupuis is off sid's line the better this team will be.

you can say that about every player in the league if you assume that the reason they are moving off of the line is because they are being replaced by a better player.

BlindWillyMcHurt 08-01-2013 01:56 PM

No, sorry... it's not the new normal.

They are both fine players but we shouldn't expect the same production that we've seen for even the first halves of their new contracts. Who knows about the second half.

Nietzsche Zone Play 08-01-2013 02:21 PM

Dupuis is creating a lot more on his own, as evidenced by his team-leading (by far) iFenwick. he shot the puck towards the net 60 more times than any other Pen. I don't see the other areas of his game (speed, tenacity, willingness to go to difficult areas, and feel for his linemates) declining just yet so as long as his shooting keeps improving he should maintain his production.

Kunitz is bound to regress a bit thanks to a ridiculous sh% last year, but not by much.

Age is obviously a factor in the coming seasons, but considering their career arcs (esp Dupuis) relative to what general expectations are for almost any player, it's safe to say that predicting a decline from here on out might not be the safest bet.

Human 08-01-2013 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Til the End of Time (Post 69836177)
dont really care about their regular season numbers, i just know the sooner dupuis is off sid's line the better this team will be.

I agree with this.

that line leaves a lot to be desired come playoffs time.

Ogrezilla 08-01-2013 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nietzsche Zone Play (Post 69838221)
Dupuis is creating a lot more on his own, as evidenced by his team-leading (by far) iFenwick. he shot the puck towards the net 60 more times than any other Pen. I don't see the other areas of his game (speed, tenacity, willingness to go to difficult areas, and feel for his linemates) declining just yet so as long as his shooting keeps improving he should maintain his production.

Kunitz is bound to regress a bit thanks to a ridiculous sh% last year, but not by much.

Age is obviously a factor in the coming seasons, but considering their career arcs (esp Dupuis) relative to what general expectations are for almost any player, it's safe to say that predicting a decline from here on out might not be the safest bet.

Can you find that fenwick stat for the playoffs only? I think Dupuis is a great player for Sid against most defenses honestly. Its when the other team is able to focus on defending that line so well that it needs broken up. To me Dupuis just seems to struggle against top defenders. In general, he is good at creating his own offense and driving the play in our direction. That is exactly why I think he would have been so good on our 3rd line. I think a Dupuis-led 3rd line would have given Boston fits.

Darth Vitale 08-01-2013 05:48 PM

They're approaching their mid-30s. No, it's not the new normal but they may produce at similar levels the next year or two before tapering off.

Crafton 08-01-2013 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale (Post 69843539)
They're approaching their mid-30s. No, it's not the new normal but they may produce at similar levels the next year or two before tapering off.

if their production is at a similar level for two more seasons wouldn't that necessarily mean that this level of production is the 'new normal' for them? that would mean that the pens got four seasons of a 70 point-pace Koon and four seasons of a 60 point-pace Duper...

Jacob 08-01-2013 06:09 PM

They're fine. Scoring isn't an issue for this team, the Bs series not withstanding, and the overall wing situation is the best it's been in the Crosby era.

Al Smith 08-01-2013 06:31 PM

I could see Dupuis producing for a couple-three more years; I think Kunitz will fall off sooner than Dupuis. I think they could produce at the same pace next year, but that will be it.

Aiastelmon 08-01-2013 09:51 PM

I expect them to each perform well during the term of their contracts, with the KCD line broken up when Bennett shows he's clearly ready to be Sid's full time winger. At that point I expect to see Bennett on the right side of Sid, with Dupuis on the left, and Kunitz back with Malkin and Neal.

With those lines, Dupuis would continue to score at the same PPG as he has in the past two seasons, and Kunitz will decline some, but the Malkin line will benefit greatly.

I think those lines can be effective for 3-4 years, with both Sid and Malkin each pushing 50g's per season, Kunitz around 15/45, and Dupuis around 25/25. Each of Kunitz and Dupuis will anchor their lines defensively, Sid's line will become defensively dominant, and Geno's will improve to average to slightly above average depending on Malkin's personal commitment to defensive hockey.

Nietzsche Zone Play 08-02-2013 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogrezilla (Post 69841473)
Can you find that fenwick stat for the playoffs only?

not easily... it would take compiling a lot of data.

besides, OP explicitly stated he wants to get away from the supposed playoff "issue" with this line.

gordie 08-02-2013 01:51 PM

Pens are falling into a very bad trap of keeping 30+ veterans who they're comfortable with instead of getting younger players who might be raw but might remove the level of complacency that has set in with this team as well as the management and coaching staff.;)

Jacob 08-02-2013 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordie (Post 69869853)
Pens are falling into a very bad trap of keeping 30+ veterans who they're comfortable with instead of getting younger players who might be raw but might remove the level of complacency that has set in with this team as well as the management and coaching staff.;)

We'd all prefer 22 year old high-upside wingers but the fact remains they're not in the system or on the open market.

Pens Junky 08-03-2013 06:37 PM

Unloading our picks on fails like Iggy and bMo don't help either. I guess it's the gamble you take when you go for it. It took the Pens two years to load up the blue line... I think if we shift our focus to skilled forwards we should be alright.

Hopefully BB steps his game up next year...

If we could hit on a guy like Blueger, Guentzel or Sundqvist that would be sweet.

At the end of the day though, Sid enjoys playing with Dups and Kunny... I'd give it another year before we shake the boat. One healthy season would be nice. See what that line is really made of.

SEALBound 08-03-2013 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob (Post 69844025)
They're fine. Scoring isn't an issue for this team, the Bs series not withstanding, and the overall wing situation is the best it's been in the Crosby era.

I disagree. I think 08 was better. Dupuis-Hossa, Malone-Sykora was better.

Jacob 08-03-2013 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEALBound (Post 69905027)
I disagree. I think 08 was better. Dupuis-Hossa, Malone-Sykora was better.

That was a Dupuis that'd be lucky to hit 30 points in a season, of course.


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