HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Buffalo Sabres (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=18)
-   -   Ryan Miller: Over/underrated? Would you want him as the starter going forward? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1479133)

jBuds 08-01-2013 11:45 PM

Ryan Miller: Over/underrated? Would you want him as the starter going forward?
 
We're clearly having a tough time dealing Miller. The market isn't exactly ideal, and you can certainly deduce without much argument that Regier has demands that aren't "chump change" status.

BUT AS AN ASIDE....

After this past season, in which Miller certainly didn't play close to an All-World goaltender's level yet played behind a pretty porous defense...do you think he's overrated? Underrated? Aptly rated?


edit: to clarify a bit...I'm trying to get a feel for what we think of him as a goaltender at this very moment in time. Is he still a top of the line guy who got a bad shake of it last year due to team in front of him? Is he just not that good anymore? Was he? That kind of thing....again in an attempt to quantify

edit2: if circumstances allowed it from both parties (which at this point seems hypothetical and unrealistic, yes), would you be okay with Ryan Miller being the team's goaltender for the next 3-5 years?

Old Navy Goat 08-02-2013 12:00 AM

I think the answer is neither. Sabres fans appreciate him for his ability, league wide he's under appreciated by the other fan bases. He'll win some games by himself, will let in the occasional gaff that makes you shake your head.

TCRF 08-02-2013 12:12 AM

Just right. I really like him though. Is spectacular at times... sometimes he's rank with softies.

kirby11 08-02-2013 12:13 AM

Miller's salary dictates that he should stop literally everything. -Mike Harrington
In all seriousness, he's still pretty good, but not as good as he was in the insane Olympic year. That was an outlier, IMO.

jBuds 08-02-2013 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirby11 (Post 69856409)
Miller's salary dictates that he should stop literally everything. -Mike Harrington
In all seriousness, he's still pretty good, but not as good as he was in the insane Olympic year. That was an outlier, IMO.

Unfortunately, there's no way around the bolded - it's true.

But the question I'm digging at is, outlier aside, where does he stand as a goalie?

In an insane alternate universe, somehow it's figured out by Miller that his value on the open market wouldn't be anything astronomical. If he's willing, are you willing to bring him back at a decent price to be the starting goaltender for the next 5 years?

kirby11 08-02-2013 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jBuds (Post 69856867)
Unfortunately, there's no way around the bolded - it's true.

But the question I'm digging at is, outlier aside, where does he stand as a goalie?

In an insane alternate universe, somehow it's figured out by Miller that his value on the open market wouldn't be anything astronomical. If he's willing, are you willing to bring him back at a decent price to be the starting goaltender for the next 5 years?

I'd say no, personally. I'd rather roll with Hackett/Enroth, see what they bring, see what Makarov can do (later on in the proposed time span, of course) and, if we're icing a competitive team but need improved goaltending...sign a decent one in free agency.

I'm against building a team from the net out, cause there's only so much one player can do. Let's say that your team defense sucks...there's only so many pucks a goalie can stop before flubbed clears/loose rebounds/other things that can be reasonably deemed outside of his control turn into goals.

Conversely, there's LA from the past year. Quick and their D were, for the most part, up until the WCF, remarkably good, but their offense provided them with little to no support and couldn't bail them out as chicago did for crawford against the red wings and bruins

Rivet52 08-02-2013 01:58 AM

I voted underrated. I still think Miller is a top-ten goalie in the NHL.

He's not been as good as the Vezina year and quite frankly it's going to be hard to match that season. He was phenomenal in 09-10. However, he's gotten a lot of undeserved beef from the fans and media. He's still an extremely good goaltender and he faced the most shots in the League last season, I believe. If not, close to it. He can single-handedly win games by himself, that hasn't changed. For a contender with questionable goaltending he could be the difference between Cup and no Cup. If not considering elite anymore, he's still in the upper tiers for goalies.

I'd be pretty comfortable having Miller re-signed and him being here for the foreseeable future. Enroth showed some good stuff last season and Hackett's a decent prospect but we really don't have any spectacular goalie prospect like a John Gibson, Jake Allen, or Jacob Markstrom to take over in a year. We could go the free-agent or trade route but as far as what we already have in the organization, there is no one I would be comfortable giving the starting job to at this point. Even though Miller has been part of the problem (a small part but a part nonetheless since he's part of the team) I firmly believe he can be a part of the solution too and the same goes for Vanek. I really think Regier feels the same way. Ryan Miller has the ability to be a key player on a Cup-winning team.

Push Dr Tracksuit 08-02-2013 03:41 AM

He's your standard competitive starter. He's good for 5 wins by himself and can keep you around in the playoffs. As long as we aren't talking a significant raise he's not hurting anything but the tank.

Clock 08-02-2013 06:36 AM

I think he's generally valued appropriately. As ONG said, he'll occasionally steal games and occasionally frustrate.

I don't see too many of our fanbase claim that he's the top goalie in the league or the worst. That counts for something. I think.

Jame 08-02-2013 07:07 AM

overrated

anyone still calling him a "top 10 goalie" is living in the past

Wherever you rank Jonas Hiller in some overall goalie rankings or whatever label you give him.... that's where Miller belongs

Jacob582 08-02-2013 07:11 AM

I'm ready to move on from Miller.

I think this team gets farther from the Stanley Cup if they sign him long term for a high cap hit.

WhoIsJimBob 08-02-2013 07:23 AM

I went with overrated.

He's good, but not as good as his paycheck nor his reputation amongst some would lead you to believe.

I'd keep him around if the price were right.

tsujimoto74 08-02-2013 08:55 AM

I think he's underrated by other teams fans, at least on HF, but Id like to see him go. We're rebuilding. We don't need him stealing a few games and keeping us from finishing dead last. Plus we've got Enroth and Hackett to hand the starts to.

struckbyaparkedcar 08-02-2013 09:02 AM

Circumstances allowing Miller to be brought back means that he gets to step away from the stupid ****ing "leadership role" he's carved out for himself, and that's my biggest issue with the guy. Still, I'd just like to move on.

On aggregate, he's about appropriately valued.

BowieSabresFan 08-02-2013 09:04 AM

At worst, he is rated appropriately. Folk forget that his even strength save % last year was just about equal to the Vezina year. I also find the comment that his Vezina year was an outlier rather interesting. Of course it was. If it wasn't he would have won the Vezina a couple more times. That's an outlier for most upper level goaltenders. Miller behind a decent defense still can be a top ten goaltender.

If Miller could be signed for a reasonable offer, I have no problems with him being the goaltender for the next few years. You have a known quantity/quality in Miller. I'm still not convinced with anyone else in the system.

It still provides a conundrum. The goalie market, as we all know, is bad. Do you get rid of Miller for the equivalent of a bag of pucks, or try to sign him for a reasonable contract?

Der Jaeger 08-02-2013 01:04 PM

I think he's appropriately valued. I like this "wins added" study as the basis of that opinion. Miller is one of only two goalies to be in the top ten for wins added between 2009-2012: Rinne all four times, and Miller three times. So he's consistent.

I'm waiting for Hockey Outsider to put together 2013. Should be interesting. I want to work the math on Miller for 2013, but I'm in Kabul and have plenty to do already, so I'm probably not going to get to it.

Myllz 08-02-2013 01:28 PM

As a straight up goaltender, I'd be fine with him staying as the starter. It's the "voice of the locker room" leader or whatever you want to call it that I want to move on from. I like him as a goaltender, but I don't like his personality and the vibe he gives off.

Jacob582 08-02-2013 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myllz (Post 69868921)
As a straight up goaltender, I'd be fine with him staying as the starter. It's the "voice of the locker room" leader or whatever you want to call it that I want to move on from. I like him as a goaltender, but I don't like his personality and the vibe he gives off.

That's what I was trying to say.

(I also don't like his cap hit, though)

TheWook 08-02-2013 03:08 PM

I think hes a solid goalie. He gets a bad rep among other teams fans that dont watch him enough. That said, I wouldnt want him here in the future and the sooner we trade him the better, good return or not. Get something for him, instead of him walking for nothing.

barcs 08-02-2013 03:26 PM

He's not a top 10 goalie.

Then again, I was unaware people were still calling him a top 10 goalie. So I may change my vote to overrated.

Elum 08-02-2013 04:50 PM

His .932 SV% and 2.05 GAA in his last 31 games after coming back from the concussion the other year shows he's easily still a top 10 goalie.

As for wanting him here for the next 3-5 years...probably not. It's time to move on.

hizzoner 08-02-2013 06:49 PM

There is not in my respectful opinion any goalie on the Sabres or Amerks roster who is more talented than Miller. Further he is no worse than middle of the nhl pack of starting goalies because they all have brain farts from time to time. He can and does win games by himself. His team mates have confidence in him--sometimes too much. All that aside we need to develop a couple of younger goalies and I truly dislike Miller's rants. I would sign him if we got him on a discounted basis, or if it was understood Buffalo would trade him to one of his preferred locations as soon as a reasonable deal could be made. I believe that doing the latter would initially weaken our team so would want a piece back that would help.

Jame 08-02-2013 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elum (Post 69875687)
His .932 SV% and 2.05 GAA in his last 31 games after coming back from the concussion the other year shows he's easily still a top 10 goalie.

As for wanting him here for the next 3-5 years...probably not. It's time to move on.

that's a convenient choice

ZZamboni 08-03-2013 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jame (Post 69879187)
that's a convenient choice

That's exactly what I thought :laugh:



I think crunching the numbers on the last 3 seasons is a reasonable indication of his future trend and also his ranking among other goalies who has played the same 3 years as a starter. Like Quick, Lundqvist, Hiller, Brzygalov, Kiprusoff etc... :dunno:



I don't know if I'm right but I would guess Miller falls just outside the top 10 in the league when combining ALL worthy stats. Sure he may have a stat or two better than most, but consider all the stats, not just the ones convenient to ones argument.

jBuds 08-03-2013 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZZamboni (Post 69885639)
That's exactly what I thought :laugh:



I think crunching the numbers on the last 3 seasons is a reasonable indication of his future trend and also his ranking among other goalies who has played the same 3 years as a starter. Like Quick, Lundqvist, Hiller, Brzygalov, Kiprusoff etc... :dunno:



I don't know if I'm right but I would guess Miller falls just outside the top 10 in the league when combining ALL worthy stats. Sure he may have a stat or two better than most, but consider all the stats, not just the ones convenient to ones argument.

You are arguing against Miller by saying he's an across-the-board top 10 goalie? I'd call that high praise, no?


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:42 AM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.