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-   -   What ever happened to grandfathering? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=148539)

LeeIs 06-28-2005 04:02 AM

What ever happened to grandfathering?
 
Well, whatever happened to the notion of easing in whatever deal is signed (if ever)?

I haven't heard anyone talking about that for so long. Was it a figment of our imagination (or mine)? Are we gonna hit hard from day one or do we still have a chance to ease in to this new CBA?

I gather there are only a few teams that may be affected by this idea anyway. What are your thoughts?

Bruwinz37 06-28-2005 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeIs
Well, whatever happened to the notion of easing in whatever deal is signed (if ever)?

I haven't heard anyone talking about that for so long. Was it a figment of our imagination (or mine)? Are we gonna hit hard from day one or do we still have a chance to ease in to this new CBA?

I gather there are only a few teams that may be affected by this idea anyway. What are your thoughts?

Bettman said from day 1 that there would be no grandfathering. Time to pay the piper.

LeeIs 06-28-2005 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruwinz37
Bettman said from day 1 that there would be no grandfathering. Time to pay the piper.

Damn, I missed that. You know the realization that the world is beyond you, you know that feeling? well I feel that right now. no wonder the whole world stopped talking about grandfathering and yet here I am wondering about something that would never be. :shakehead

Oh well, I'm glad I wasn't following much of that nonesense anyways. Probably saved me a few hairs in the long run.

mooseOAK* 06-28-2005 08:27 AM

There'll be ways for teams to maneuver their committed money somehow. Otherwise, who's going to sign all those free agents out there?

Christ 06-28-2005 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruwinz37
Bettman said from day 1 that there would be no grandfathering. Time to pay the piper.

You mean that Bettman actually intends to follow through on one of his early statements. Good God. Ladies and gentleman, get out your skates, hell has officially frozen over :p: .

I mean seriously, early in the "negotiations" between Bettman and the PA, Bettman's goals for the NHL appeared to be a moving target (there was going to be a salary cap, then there was not going to be a salary cap...his position on a salary cap seemed to vary with the newscrew who was interviewing him). I still believe that Bettman did not want the NHL to play last season as I think he believed that it would give him leverage with the fans and thus something to beat the players over the heads with. How effective this was still remains a mistery as a new deal has yet to be signed.

As far as I can see, Bettman's lockout has only had a negative impact on fan support for the NHL. Even many of the fans who fully supported the owners from the start, are now questioning their intentions behind the lockout and many people I know have sworn to stop watching the NHL as they find both the players and the owners to be too greedy. This lockout has to end now.

ULF_55 06-28-2005 09:46 AM

Sounds like buy-outs that don't count against the cap are the closest thing to relief teams are going to get.

According to Dowbiggins' sources, Holik would be one of the targets for a buy-out.

There could be some really good deals with these bought out players.

RangerBoy 06-28-2005 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULF_55
Sounds like buy-outs that don't count against the cap are the closest thing to relief teams are going to get.

According to Dowbiggins' sources, Holik would be one of the targets for a buy-out.

There could be some really good deals with these bought out players.

Both the New York Post and New York Daily News have reported the Rangers will/might/most likely will buy out Bobby Holik.Darius Kasparaitis is another Ranger who will probably be bought out

ULF_55 06-28-2005 10:13 AM

How many years are left on Yashin's deal?

Two questions:

1. Can the Isles afford to buy-out Yashin
2. Can the Isles afford to keep Yashin

Under the expect cap?

Bruwinz37 06-29-2005 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christ
You mean that Bettman actually intends to follow through on one of his early statements. Good God. Ladies and gentleman, get out your skates, hell has officially frozen over :p: .

I mean seriously, early in the "negotiations" between Bettman and the PA, Bettman's goals for the NHL appeared to be a moving target (there was going to be a salary cap, then there was not going to be a salary cap...his position on a salary cap seemed to vary with the newscrew who was interviewing him). I still believe that Bettman did not want the NHL to play last season as I think he believed that it would give him leverage with the fans and thus something to beat the players over the heads with. How effective this was still remains a mistery as a new deal has yet to be signed.

As far as I can see, Bettman's lockout has only had a negative impact on fan support for the NHL. Even many of the fans who fully supported the owners from the start, are now questioning their intentions behind the lockout and many people I know have sworn to stop watching the NHL as they find both the players and the owners to be too greedy. This lockout has to end now.


From what I have seen Bettman has followed up on everything he said he was going to do. Perhaps you didnt follow closely enough.

ULF_55 06-29-2005 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruwinz37
From what I have seen Bettman has followed up on everything he said he was going to do. Perhaps you didnt follow closely enough.

CBA has been signed?

I obviously missed it. You'd have thought some news agency would have picked it up.

Christ 06-29-2005 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruwinz37
From what I have seen Bettman has followed up on everything he said he was going to do. Perhaps you didnt follow closely enough.

:biglaugh: Oh God. Too funny. Thanks, I needed a good laugh. :biglaugh:

Bruwinz37 06-29-2005 07:29 PM

Leave it to Leafs fans to not have the ability to deal with reality.

Ok, if you wish to believe that there will be grandfathering allowed, go for it. It is common knowledge to everyone else that it wont be.

Christ 06-29-2005 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruwinz37
Leave it to Leafs fans to not have the ability to deal with reality.

Ok, if you wish to believe that there will be grandfathering allowed, go for it. It is common knowledge to everyone else that it wont be.

Now I must ask you where did you get the idea that all Leaf fans though that grandfathering would be allowed? Grandfathering was a concept spread by the media as a potential solution for problems that some teams with large payrolls would have with the new CBA. That does not make it a concept that Leaf fans assumed would be introduced as a part of the new CBA, it simply was an interesting idea that appealed to some (not all mind you) of us.

As for having trouble dealing with reality, I am still having trouble trying to figure out where you got the idea that "Bettman has followed up on everything he said he was going to do". So far the little monkey has done nothing of the sort. There is no CBA in place so whatever he has said regarding the new CBA is mute. Heck he has not even been all that clear in what he wants for the new CBA in the first place, a great example was the constant flip-flops over the issue of the salary cap issue that he fired out in the first months of "negociations". Don't tell me that you can't remeber that far back, a "knowledgable" fan like you would certainly have no trouble remembering this.

In truth I can't see why Bettman has as much support as he does. I mean what has that little ferret done for the NHL or for the betterment of hockey in general? His expansion has definitly not gone as he planned. Opening new markets to the NHL has not produced the revenue that Bettman envisioned and has in fact been the cheif reason why the league is having money problems now. He did nothing to try and counter rampant spending by owners. The television deals that he covets in the US have gone no where either. From a financial standpoint his managing of the sport has been an horrible failure.

The Bettman led "improvements" to the game seem to have had the opposite effect on hockey that was intended as well. They changed hockey from a great free flowing, high scoring and fast game to a game where defense comes before offense, clutch and grab is king and where scoring has a become rare thing. I can go on with what he has done wrong but really need I bother? The guy is the anti-Christ of hockey. Only an easily brainwashed individuals would think otherwise :p:

Volcanologist 06-29-2005 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruwinz37
Leave it to Leafs fans to not have the ability to deal with reality.

Ok, if you wish to believe that there will be grandfathering allowed, go for it. It is common knowledge to everyone else that it wont be.

Based on your projected Bruins lineups over on your board, I'd say you're the one who isn't dealing with reality.

Bruwinz37 06-30-2005 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepNCheese
Based on your projected Bruins lineups over on your board, I'd say you're the one who isn't dealing with reality.

That is not my "projected" lineup, that is what I would do if I were the running the team. It was just some fun we were having. Good try though.

Bruwinz37 06-30-2005 08:23 AM

Quote:

As for having trouble dealing with reality, I am still having trouble trying to figure out where you got the idea that "Bettman has followed up on everything he said he was going to do". So far the little monkey has done nothing of the sort. There is no CBA in place so whatever he has said regarding the new CBA is mute.
I will assume you mean "moot", but I digress. When I said that Bettman has followed up on everything he said he was going to do (regarding the lockout) I am basing it on the projected salary cap. From all indications the cap will be close to where he wanted it to be. He did not give in to the players and followed through on what he said he was going to do.

I am not a fan of him at all. I hope he no longer is the commissioner once this is over and done, but I was simply pointing out that he has followed up on his plan.

ULF_55 06-30-2005 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruwinz37
I am not a fan of him at all. I hope he no longer is the commissioner once this is over and done, but I was simply pointing out that he has followed up on his plan.

What was his plan and how has he followed up with it?

Volcanologist 06-30-2005 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruwinz37
That is not my "projected" lineup, that is what I would do if I were the running the team. It was just some fun we were having. Good try though.

Nice deflection.

ULF_55 06-30-2005 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruwinz37
I will assume you mean "moot", but I digress.

Perhaps he means mute:

I haven't heard anything about a new CBA being done. ;)


3 : remaining silent, undiscovered, or unrecognized

Bruwinz37 06-30-2005 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULF_55
What was his plan and how has he followed up with it?

Cost certainty, salary cap, no grandfathering. It has all happened. I dont care if you want to believe it or not, but you will soon see how the new landscape will be.

Bruwinz37 06-30-2005 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepNCheese
Nice deflection.

You have added nothing to this discussion. If you have a personal matter, take it to PM. If you want to get actively involved in the conversation then take a stand and speak up.

mooseOAK* 06-30-2005 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruwinz37
Cost certainty, salary cap, no grandfathering. It has all happened. I dont care if you want to believe it or not, but you will soon see how the new landscape will be.

I don't see the landscape littered with NHLPA members without jobs because the richest teams have been blocked from signing them.

Bruwinz37 06-30-2005 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooseOAK
I don't see the landscape littered with NHLPA members without jobs because the richest teams have been blocked from signing them.

I never said that would be the case. These players will just sign for a lot less. Where did I ever suggest that people would be out of jobs?

mooseOAK* 06-30-2005 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruwinz37
I never said that would be the case. These players will just sign for a lot less. Where did I ever suggest that people would be out of jobs?

Which players? I imagine that top notch free agents will still be signing for the market price before the new CBA, less the 24%, which is still going to make them more expensive than a lot of teams can afford.

ULF_55 07-01-2005 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruwinz37
Cost certainty, salary cap, no grandfathering. It has all happened. I dont care if you want to believe it or not, but you will soon see how the new landscape will be.

There is no cba.

The last comments we got from Bettman was, that no cap had been agreed to.

He has said no grandfathering.

Please show where this stuff has happened.

I agree most of it WILL happen, but see no evidence it has happened.


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