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-   -   OT: Philadelphia Phillies (MLB): Wheels and Sarge out. (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1486559)

FLYguy3911 08-18-2013 06:34 PM

Philadelphia Phillies (MLB): Wheels and Sarge out.
 
As per request.

I've rambled on about my thoughts in previous threads. There's not much left to say.

In short, this team is in deep ****.

:baghead:

_____________________

Prior thread -- http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...449261&page=40

usahockey22flyers 08-18-2013 08:24 PM

"Is it over yet"

Sounds about right.

FlyersFan61290 08-18-2013 08:58 PM



Sorry Rambo, this time I think it is. :laugh:

DrinkFightFlyers 08-19-2013 08:53 AM

This draft class is supposedly pretty strong, isn't it?

Broad Street Elite 08-19-2013 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers (Post 70328189)
This draft class is supposedly pretty strong, isn't it?

I hope so. I'm hoping we can bottom out and re-stock. Going to be a tough few years watching some of these aging legends (Rollins, Utley, Howard) hobble to the end.

That said, looking at some farm system reviews... Our 2013 draft class is playing out of their minds almost across the board and we've got some serious organizational depth developing. We need some serious prospect development in the OF, but with Revere and Brown likely entrenched there already, we have some time.

Maikel Franco may be able to help sometime next season. Kid looks like a star.

Protest 08-19-2013 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite (Post 70328949)
I hope so. I'm hoping we can bottom out and re-stock. Going to be a tough few years watching some of these aging legends (Rollins, Utley, Howard) hobble to the end.

That said, looking at some farm system reviews... Our 2013 draft class is playing out of their minds almost across the board and we've got some serious organizational depth developing. We need some serious prospect development in the OF, but with Revere and Brown likely entrenched there already, we have some time.

Maikel Franco may be able to help sometime next season. Kid looks like a star.

I want Franco up as soon as possible, so that he can be exposed to MLB pitching because apparently his swing is long and he has poor pitch recognition. If that's true then minor league pitchers don't have the velocity or command to expose what some of the people scouting him see. The description Keith Law gave of him makes him seem like a similar player to the current version of Ryan Howard, but with the arm to play 3B.

flyersguy33* 08-19-2013 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protest (Post 70329447)
I want Franco up as soon as possible, so that he can be exposed to MLB pitching because apparently his swing is long and he has poor pitch recognition. If that's true then minor league pitchers don't have the velocity or command to expose what some of the people scouting him see. The description Keith Law gave of him makes him seem like a similar player to the current version of Ryan Howard, but with the arm to play 3B.

Phuture Phillies ‏@PhuturePhilz 1h
Maikel Franco thru 200AB's for Reading: .342/.366/.540; 9HR 38RBI; 8% k rate

to have an 8% k rate at any level, you have to have a pretty good pitch recognition

Protest 08-19-2013 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schenntacular Duo (Post 70330397)
Phuture Phillies ‏@PhuturePhilz 1h
Maikel Franco thru 200AB's for Reading: .342/.366/.540; 9HR 38RBI; 8% k rate

to have an 8% k rate at any level, you have to have a pretty good pitch recognition

He is supposed to have good bat speed and coordination which allows him to make contact, but AA pitching is not MLB pitching. If he can't recognize pitches his bat speed won't make up for it at the MLB level since he has a long swing. It'll lead to weak contact. I've read a few scouting reports now that have stated he swings the same way for everything.

http://phuturephillies.com/2013/07/2...maikel-franco/

Quote:

The concern is that at the major league level if he continues to be as indiscriminate at the plate as he has been it is not going to show in strikeout rate but in a high percent of poor contact. He at times seems to have made up his mind pre-pitch about whether he will swing or not. That is something that he will not be able to get away with in the majors.
http://philliesnation.com/archives/2...ort-on-franco/

Quote:

His approach, however, is a disaster right now — not only does he struggle to recognize off-speed stuff, especially changeups, but he’s only interested in pitches he can crush, making no adjustments to where the pitch is located or to its type. If you signal that you’re just trying to murder fastballs, you’re not going to see many fastballs in the zone. That approach shows up in his lack of patience, with just one walk in Reading, on June 23, but it will show up soon enough in his batting average, as well.
EDIT: I'm not saying I agree. I just want to see him against MLB pitching so we can find out for sure if he needs to adjust his swing or work on his approach. I get leery of guys developing bad habits in lower levels because one of their abilities is beyond their league so it makes up for their deficiencies.

JDinkalage Morgoone 08-19-2013 11:20 AM

I don't think the team is as ****ed as everyone wants to think. It'll be bad but I don't see it being horrible for too long.

Hiesenberg 08-19-2013 11:23 AM

Its super early, but the early reports out of low ball was that JP Crawford looks ridiculous. They bumped him up to Lakewood for the rest of the year. Nice to see.

FreshPerspective 08-19-2013 12:59 PM

I know it's just me but as a hockey fan I find it baffling how a hockey fan can be a baseball fan. The game is soooooo boring/slow and the season so damn long..way worse than preseason hockey on the boredom spectrum in particular despite what Howard Eskin thinks....

I will say that playoff baseball gets my interest a little more but it was only when the Phillies were good. Now the Phillies remind me of when I would try to get into them in the Von Hayes era..ugh! :help:

Protest 08-19-2013 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt (Post 70333979)
I know it's just me but as a hockey fan I find it baffling how a hockey fan can be a baseball fan. The game is soooooo boring/slow and the season so damn long..way worse than preseason hockey on the boredom spectrum in particular despite what Howard Eskin thinks....

I will say that playoff baseball gets my interest a little more but it was only when the Phillies were good. Now the Phillies remind me of when I would try to get into them in the Von Hayes era..ugh! :help:

Bad baseball is impossible to watch. The game is inherently slow, and when your team sucks its just really difficult to watch it and stay glued to it because of the pace of the game. I actually prefer to listen to it on the radio while I'm doing something else. When the Phils were very good though most games were pretty fun to watch. Lots of good offense, and then later on lots of dominant pitching.

Playoff baseball is pure nerve racking awesomeness though.

SolidSnakeUS 08-19-2013 01:47 PM

I grew up playing baseball, and it was my favorite sport, until hockey came along. Baseball is still 2nd to hockey, but I love baseball nonetheless. When the game is good, either offensively or defensively/pitching, it can be a real treat to watch. Playoffs are nerve racking mainly because literally every pitch counts.

JDinkalage Morgoone 08-19-2013 02:28 PM

I appreciate every nuance of baseball from having played it. Maybe that's the difference.

jml87 08-19-2013 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt (Post 70333979)
I know it's just me but as a hockey fan I find it baffling how a hockey fan can be a baseball fan. The game is soooooo boring/slow and the season so damn long..way worse than preseason hockey on the boredom spectrum in particular despite what Howard Eskin thinks....

I will say that playoff baseball gets my interest a little more but it was only when the Phillies were good. Now the Phillies remind me of when I would try to get into them in the Von Hayes era..ugh! :help:

Bad baseball does suck but I still enjoy the sport as much as hockey. Does anyone besides me watch hockey and baseball at the same time when both seasons are going on? Lol, it's mind blowing. A good exercise for your brain I think.

Also Keith law is an idiot. Most annoying analyst in baseball. He manages to hide all the times he's gotten things wrong, somehow. Like just recently when he thought Puig was going to be a bust.

SolidSnakeUS 08-19-2013 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone (Post 70336337)
I appreciate every nuance of baseball from having played it. Maybe that's the difference.

Even if the game may be slow, but to be good at it is WAY harder than it seems. Funny, at least the game runs more in real time than ****ing football does.

FLYguy3911 08-19-2013 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone (Post 70331273)
I don't think the team is as ****ed as everyone wants to think. It'll be bad but I don't see it being horrible for too long.

I'll have what you're having.

JDinkalage Morgoone 08-19-2013 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 (Post 70337383)
I'll have what you're having.

Maybe I'm too optimistic, maybe you're too pessimistic. I think it'll all work out. No way of really knowing.

FlyersFan61290 08-19-2013 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone (Post 70336337)
I appreciate every nuance of baseball from having played it. Maybe that's the difference.

Same. I played Baseball through my first two years of HS then hockey the following two yrs, Football all four years. Ironically enough it goes Hockey first, Baseball second and Football 3rd. :laugh:

Back on topic though. I think playing baseball even if only for fun like I did makes you really appreciate the game and makes it pretty easy to watch. I'm not gonna sit here and say it can't be boring but it's much better to watch then Basketball for example.

SolidSnakeUS 08-19-2013 03:15 PM

If you were still playing today, what position would you be? For me, probably a pitcher, because I'm not very good at hitting baseballs that go fast :laugh:.

Broad Street Elite 08-19-2013 03:19 PM

The Phillies could turn it around quickly, but they needed to do what the Red Sox did which was a purge and on the fly rebuild. They moved on from AGon, but managed to send out some bad contracts in Beckett and Crawford.

I don't know that the Phillies had the same opportunity for a deal like that, but not moving Lee or Utley is certainly going to extend the losing a little while longer.

Howard is one of the worst contracts in baseball, so the goal should be to be set-up to take the next step when that money gets freed up in 4 years. Should take us at least 2 seasons to start heading in the right direction again.

SolidSnakeUS 08-19-2013 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite (Post 70337785)
The Phillies could turn it around quickly, but they needed to do what the Red Sox did which was a purge and on the fly rebuild. They moved on from AGon, but managed to send out some bad contracts in Beckett and Crawford.

I don't know that the Phillies had the same opportunity for a deal like that, but not moving Lee or Utley is certainly going to extend the losing a little while longer.

Howard is one of the worst contracts in baseball, so the goal should be to be set-up to take the next step when that money gets freed up in 4 years. Should take us at least 2 seasons to start heading in the right direction again.

Trade Howard to Houston. I'm sure they need power hitters :laugh:.

JDinkalage Morgoone 08-19-2013 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS (Post 70337689)
If you were still playing today, what position would you be? For me, probably a pitcher, because I'm not very good at hitting baseballs that go fast :laugh:.

I play first base in softball but I played 3B and P in high school, not sure.

montreal 08-19-2013 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers (Post 70328189)
This draft class is supposedly pretty strong, isn't it?

yes although a lot can change between now and June. The phils are in a dog fight for a top 4 pick, they went into yesterdays game in a 3 way tie for 4th with the Cubs/Brewers as each had 69 losses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite (Post 70328949)
That said, looking at some farm system reviews... Our 2013 draft class is playing out of their minds almost across the board and we've got some serious organizational depth developing. We need some serious prospect development in the OF, but with Revere and Brown likely entrenched there already, we have some time.

Maikel Franco may be able to help sometime next season. Kid looks like a star.

It's been a really tough year for the farm system outside of Franco and Crawford. Going into this season, BA had the phils in the bottom 10 of the league for prospect systems but they got a lot of high praise for their draft in June. They could have 3 top 100 prospects when BA puts out next seasons rankings, but with several injuries to their top prospects (Morgan, Quinn, Watson, Joseph, LGJ, etc...) it means there's going to be a lot of question marks on how they bounce back next season.

As for OF prospects, I had hoped that Tyson Gillies would have had a better season, they changed his swing and it set him back but he's been much better of late. There's Kelly Dugan (AA) who recently got moved up to Reading after a good year in Clearwater (A+), he's shown good power and was a high pick in '09. Cameron Perkins is having a good year in Clearwater, he was having a great year until he got injured. In Lakewood (A-) there's the 17 year old Carlos Tocci, he's rail thin but fast and good in the field. There's also Dylan Cozens in the NY Penn League, he's showing some decent power but may end up at 1B since he's 19 and already has a huge frame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protest (Post 70329447)
I want Franco up as soon as possible, so that he can be exposed to MLB pitching because apparently his swing is long and he has poor pitch recognition. If that's true then minor league pitchers don't have the velocity or command to expose what some of the people scouting him see. The description Keith Law gave of him makes him seem like a similar player to the current version of Ryan Howard, but with the arm to play 3B.

Law doesn't seem to like Franco as much as others, but in the games I've seen him (Lakewood and Reading) he hasn't had problems with pitch recognition. The one thing that stood out was that he's not overly quick, but flashes impressive power. I have him as the phils top prospect and think he's going to be a good one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone (Post 70331273)
I don't think the team is as ****ed as everyone wants to think. It'll be bad but I don't see it being horrible for too long.

Perhaps, but they will need to do a 180 with the pitching, as it's been a really tough year at both the major and minor level for their pitchers. I don't know how they fix the bullpen but I'm not sure if they have an answer from the minors next season. Really disappointed that none of the young arms in the pen have stepped up, thought for sure one of them would but perhaps moving Ethan Martin to the pen would work.

FlyersFan61290 08-19-2013 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS (Post 70337689)
If you were still playing today, what position would you be? For me, probably a pitcher, because I'm not very good at hitting baseballs that go fast :laugh:.

I'm bigger then I was in HS so I'd probably have to play 1B but it's been I while since I hit a baseball so in all likelihood I'd be watching from the dugout. :laugh:


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