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-   -   Arpon's Top 10 on NHL.Com (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1487111)

Matteus 08-20-2013 06:48 AM

Arpon's Top 10 on NHL.Com
 
I looked around to see if that had already been posted and couldn't see it, so here it is:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=680439

DAChampion 08-20-2013 07:28 AM

The top-6 of Beaulieu, Tinordi, Collberg, Fucale, De La Rose, and McCarron is probably everybody's top 6. We'd disagree on the order, but I think nearly all of us would have these as the top-6 prospects. It's what comes after that surprises me.

Basu selects Bournival, Bozon, Dietz, Hudon as 7,8,9,10. I don't get the love for Bournival or for Dumont for that matter... we have a potential forward shorter than 6 feet with 4th line upside who can play on the 3rd line when better players are injured, so what?

Louis Leblanc and Greg Pateryn are curious omissions from the top-10.

Sam I Am 08-20-2013 07:50 AM

This is Arpon's Top 10:

Beaulieu
Tinordi
Collberg
Fucale
De La Rose
McCarron
Bournival
Bozon
Dietz
Hudon

Off the top of my head, Tinordi is way closer to the NHL than Beaulieu. And I'd slot in Nygren in the 7th slot. Everybody seems to forget this guy...dunno why. And what about Thomas?

IMO it should go something like this:


Tinordi
Beaulieu
Collberg
De La Rose
McCarron
Fucale
Nygren
Hudon
Thomas
Pateryn

Impossible Glory 08-20-2013 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAChampion (Post 70354651)
The top-6 of Beaulieu, Tinordi, Collberg, Fucale, De La Rose, and McCarron is probably everybody's top 6. We'd disagree on the order, but I think nearly all of us would have these as the top-6 prospects. It's what comes after that surprises me.

Basu selects Bournival, Bozon, Dietz, Hudon as 7,8,9,10. I don't get the love for Bournival or for Dumont for that matter... we have a potential forward shorter than 6 feet with 4th line upside who can play on the 3rd line when better players are injured, so what?

Louis Leblanc and Greg Pateryn are curious omissions from the top-10.

Thomas looks like a bigger omission to me than these guys, given that he has a higher potential than arguably everybody from 7 to 10 and the 2 guys you mentionned. Also, I believe he is closer to being an NHLer than these guys. This obivously just my opinion though.

Monctonscout 08-20-2013 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matteus (Post 70354147)
I looked around to see if that had already been posted and couldn't see it, so here it is:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=680439

Top 10 looks very solid.

DAChampion 08-20-2013 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Impossible Glory (Post 70355163)
Thomas looks like a bigger omission to me than these guys, given that he has a higher potential than arguably everybody from 7 to 10 and the 2 guys you mentionned. Also, I believe he is closer to being an NHLer than these guys. This obivously just my opinion though.

I had the feeling I was forgetting someone :-)

FrontierPsyCHiatrist* 08-20-2013 09:44 AM

Just add Galchenyuk and Gallagher to that list...

Naoned 08-20-2013 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAChampion (Post 70354651)
The top-6 of Beaulieu, Tinordi, Collberg, Fucale, De La Rose, and McCarron is probably everybody's top 6. We'd disagree on the order, but I think nearly all of us would have these as the top-6 prospects. It's what comes after that surprises me.

Basu selects Bournival, Bozon, Dietz, Hudon as 7,8,9,10. I don't get the love for Bournival or for Dumont for that matter... we have a potential forward shorter than 6 feet with 4th line upside who can play on the 3rd line when better players are injured, so what?

Louis Leblanc and Greg Pateryn are curious omissions from the top-10.

Just a gut feeling, but I'm pretty sure Leblanc will have a good year and reclaim a top prospect status soon. A year from now, he'll be either back on our top 10 prospect list, or with the Habs.
A lot of people are writing him off way too early.

Ohashi_Jouzu 08-20-2013 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAChampion (Post 70354651)
Louis Leblanc and Greg Pateryn are curious omissions from the top-10.

Leblanc... maybe. Pateryn? I think he has run-of-the-mill AHL journeyman written all over him.

Big Lurk 08-20-2013 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu (Post 70357523)
Leblanc... maybe. Pateryn? I think he has run-of-the-mill AHL journeyman written all over him.

how come? I thought he looked solid, not outstanding, but solid in his nhl games, the type of dman we didnt have. (just asking).

Ohashi_Jouzu 08-20-2013 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Lurk (Post 70358987)
how come? I thought he looked solid, not outstanding, but solid in his nhl games, the type of dman we didnt have. (just asking).

He seems 1/2 step behind at all times. Hangs in there, no doubt, and can battle, but even at the AHL level he looks slow reacting and closing space to me. Really, really pedestrian puck skills, too. He's a collection of average skills that - even in aggregate - just doesn't amount to an NHLer in my book. More than 6 mins/night, against some of the better players in the league, and I think he'd get eaten for breakfast. I wouldn't be surprised if the Pateryn we see right now is the absolute best version that anyone sees over the rest of his career, and he doesn't look any closer to "graduation" to me.

Redux91 08-20-2013 11:05 AM

i think he absolutely nailed our top 10 , make thomas #11

Roulin 08-20-2013 11:24 AM

IMO the list gives too much weight to draft position, but the writeups are solid.

"Here are Montreal's top 10 prospects, according to NHL.com" - does that mean it's Basu's list, or a composite from a few writers' lists?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu (Post 70359347)
He seems 1/2 step behind at all times. Hangs in there, no doubt, and can battle, but even at the AHL level he looks slow reacting and closing space to me. Really, really pedestrian puck skills, too. He's a collection of average skills that - even in aggregate - just doesn't amount to an NHLer in my book. More than 6 mins/night, against some of the better players in the league, and I think he'd get eaten for breakfast. I wouldn't be surprised if the Pateryn we see right now is the absolute best version that anyone sees over the rest of his career, and he doesn't look any closer to "graduation" to me.

I agree with this, unfortunately. Hopefully Pateryn has a developmental burst left, but this point I don't think it's reasonable to expect.

jedimyrmidon 08-20-2013 03:39 PM

Been looking at EotP's Top 25 under Top 25, which is an interesting feature.

I have a feeling many of the members on the panel voting don't really know a lot about the prospects though. They have Fucale rather low (at #22), Thomas (#19) and De La Rose (#18) pretty low with Ellis (#16) being rated higher than all of them.

The thing I like about considering players under 25 is that guys like Pacioretty, Subban, Eller, Gallagher and Galchenyuk are included in the list, which definitely makes the future look all the more brighter (sadly Price is now too old).

overlords 08-20-2013 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedimyrmidon (Post 70368387)
Been looking at EotP's Top 25 under Top 25, which is an interesting feature.

I have a feeling many of the members on the panel voting don't really know a lot about the prospects though. They have Fucale rather low (at #22), Thomas (#19) and De La Rose (#18) pretty low with Ellis (#16) being rated higher than all of them.

The thing I like about considering players under 25 is that guys like Pacioretty, Subban, Eller, Gallagher and Galchenyuk are included in the list, which definitely makes the future look all the more brighter (sadly Price is now too old).

www.habseyesontheprize.com has a top 25 under 25 going right now. It's my favorite habs site. Really intelligent people there.

jedimyrmidon 08-20-2013 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overlords (Post 70369257)
www.habseyesontheprize.com has a top 25 under 25 going right now. It's my favorite habs site. Really intelligent people there.

Haha, yeah, EotP = Eyes on the Prize.

Smart people, yeah. Just not convinced that many of the members on the voting panel for the Top 25 under 25 have seen too much of the Habs prospects compared to some here on HFBoards, i.e., have been paying attention to their development before they were drafted/acquired by the Habs, which affects the rankings.

In terms of site opinions, it's great that they're skeptical about having a big team for the sake of having a big team, or about having too many grinders. At the same time, I think they underrate the role that players like Brandon Prust play on the team, and are almost dismissive of the need for character, grit and toughness.

And God forbid you disagree with something they write... As much as they are intelligent and enjoy debating, I find any sort of 'discussion' often devolves very quickly into something that can hardly be considered 'discussing'. I am under the clear impression that this is due to an often arrogant/abrasive way of communicating, and not because they are always right and the other side just can't accept it without being sore about it. I have seen other people write posts refuting someone else's point of view without it devolving into finger pointing and aggressive debating.

Big Lurk 08-20-2013 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu (Post 70359347)
He seems 1/2 step behind at all times. Hangs in there, no doubt, and can battle, but even at the AHL level he looks slow reacting and closing space to me. Really, really pedestrian puck skills, too. He's a collection of average skills that - even in aggregate - just doesn't amount to an NHLer in my book. More than 6 mins/night, against some of the better players in the league, and I think he'd get eaten for breakfast. I wouldn't be surprised if the Pateryn we see right now is the absolute best version that anyone sees over the rest of his career, and he doesn't look any closer to "graduation" to me.

Thanks for the insight! And thats why I love HF.

overlords 08-20-2013 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedimyrmidon (Post 70370119)
Haha, yeah, EotP = Eyes on the Prize.

Smart people, yeah. Just not convinced that many of the members on the voting panel for the Top 25 under 25 have seen too much of the Habs prospects compared to some here on HFBoards, i.e., have been paying attention to their development before they were drafted/acquired by the Habs, which affects the rankings.

In terms of site opinions, it's great that they're skeptical about having a big team for the sake of having a big team, or about having too many grinders. At the same time, I think they underrate the role that players like Brandon Prust play on the team, and are almost dismissive of the need for character, grit and toughness.

And God forbid you disagree with something they write... As much as they are intelligent and enjoy debating, I find any sort of 'discussion' often devolves very quickly into something that can hardly be considered 'discussing'. I am under the clear impression that this is due to an often arrogant/abrasive way of communicating, and not because they are always right and the other side just can't accept it without being sore about it. I have seen other people write posts refuting someone else's point of view without it devolving into finger pointing and aggressive debating.

Derp. not sure how I missed that. And man, this is me before I start my 50+ hour week :sarcasm:

I've never seen them get into disagreements, so I can't comment. I think most people will interpret the 'by the numbers' mentality as being elitist or pretentious, which I can understand.

I don't really know all their writers, but Berkshire, Cooper and Rice are my favorites.

As for toughness, sometimes it matters, sometimes it doesn't. A micro-stats approach doesn't discount toughness as being useless in the same way it doesn't really discount passing. It just bypasses those things and tries to express whether player, regardless of toughness, for example, is a positive or negative influence on his team and it's ability to keep control of the puck. It's a great tool for seeing the 'what' and not necessarily the 'how', imo. That's where actually watching the hockey and matching it up to any statistical analysis is imperative.

jedimyrmidon 08-20-2013 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overlords (Post 70370605)

I've never seen them get into disagreements, so I can't comment. I think most people will interpret the 'by the numbers' mentality as being elitist or pretentious, which I can understand.

I don't really know all their writers, but Berkshire, Cooper and Rice are my favorites.

Disagreements happen in the Comments section. In fact, you can see one in the Ellis article posted today.

overlords 08-20-2013 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedimyrmidon (Post 70371757)
Disagreements happen in the Comments section. In fact, you can see one in the Ellis article posted today.

Ah, I thought you meant on twitter. Gonna check that out.

On reading 90% of the comments section under Marc Dumont's article, I still don't really see what you mean. The writer handled all comments with class and intelligence and other writers even came in and offered their viewpoints. TBH I felt like I was at the mensa of comment sections compared with..uhh... the other places on the internet where I observe arguing hockey fans.

Frozenice 08-20-2013 06:39 PM

From thehabseyesontheprize:

POLL
Should the Habs offer sheet Kadri?

79% Yes, if only to piss off the Leafs
(111 votes)
21% No
(30 votes)
141 votes total

jedimyrmidon 08-20-2013 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overlords (Post 70371809)
Ah, I thought you meant on twitter. Gonna check that out.

On reading 90% of the comments section under Marc Dumont's article, I still don't really see what you mean. The writer handled all comments with class and intelligence and other writers even came in and offered their viewpoints. TBH I felt like I was at the mensa of comment sections compared with..uhh... the other places on the internet where I observe arguing hockey fans.

Alright, fair enough.

I agree that most of the time the discussions are quite good, and the average poster there is more likely to engage in these discussions without it becoming a flame war.

Another thing I like about that site: they definitely root for the Habs unlike many other sites where they supposedly cheer for the Habs, but also rip every player that doesn't fight, win an NHL award and the Stanley Cup to shreds.


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