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-   -   Savard, Goloubef & Waivers (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1488961)

EspenK 08-24-2013 09:10 AM

Savard, Goloubef & Waivers
 
I'm still a bit confused about Savard & Goloubef and waivers. I'm not sure they are subject to them. I've been reading the CBA and here is what (I think) it says:

For purposes of this Article, "age 18" means a Player reaching his eighteenth
birthday between January 1 next preceding the Entry Draft and September 15
next following the Entry Draft, both dates included; "age 19" means a Player
reaching his nineteenth birthday in the calendar year of the Entry Draft;


Savard was drafted in 2009 and didn't sign an ELC until 2010 (before his 20th birthday) so the way I read it he is considered to be a 19 yr old for waiver purposes because his birthday is October 10, 1990.

The CBA goes on to say that a 19 yr old is exempt for 4 years or until 160 games are played (I think whichever comes first although I couldn't see that specifically written)

It then says that whenever a 19 yr old plays more than 11 NHL games in a season his exemption period starts and is reduced to 3 yrs. And the following 2 seasons are years 2 & 3 regardless if he plays in the NHL or not.

Savard's first NHL season was 2011-2012 when he played 31 games.

The way I read it his next two exempt from waiver years are 2012-2013 & 2013-2014.

So to me he is not subject to waivers until after this upcoming season.

Goloubef was also drafted as a 19 yr old; didn't sign until 2010 and still hasn't played 11 games in a season. I think he is still okay too.

This is all a bit confusing and I'm not an attorney but I think this is what the CBA says.


I just double checked this on CapGeek and it says he has one year of exemption left. if you want to double check just make sure you check NO about whether he played any games in 2010-11 after signing his contract. CapGeek however considers his playing AHL in 2010 as a year off his exemption. I don't see in the CBA that this is right. I sent them an email for clarification.

Where is this wrong? Inquiring and hopeful minds want to know.

Samkow 08-24-2013 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EspenK (Post 70478239)
I'm still a bit confused about Savard & Goloubef and waivers. I'm not sure they are subject to them. I've been reading the CBA and here is what (I think) it says:

For purposes of this Article, "age 18" means a Player reaching his eighteenth
birthday between January 1 next preceding the Entry Draft and September 15
next following the Entry Draft, both dates included; "age 19" means a Player
reaching his nineteenth birthday in the calendar year of the Entry Draft;


Savard was drafted in 2009 and didn't sign an ELC until 2010 (before his 20th birthday) so the way I read it he is considered to be a 19 yr old for waiver purposes because his birthday is October 10, 1990.

The CBA goes on to say that a 19 yr old is exempt for 4 years or until 160 games are played (I think whichever comes first although I couldn't see that specifically written)

It then says that whenever a 19 yr old plays more than 11 NHL games in a season his exemption period starts and is reduced to 3 yrs. And the following 2 seasons are years 2 & 3 regardless if he plays in the NHL or not.

Savard's first NHL season was 2011-2012 when he played 31 games.

The way I read it his next two exempt from waiver years are 2012-2013 & 2013-2014.

So to me he is not subject to waivers until after this upcoming season.

Goloubef was also drafted as a 19 yr old; didn't sign until 2010 and still hasn't played 11 games in a season. I think he is still okay too.

This is all a bit confusing and I'm not an attorney but I think this is what the CBA says.


I just double checked this on CapGeek and it says he has one year of exemption left. if you want to double check just make sure you check NO about whether he played any games in 2010-11 after signing his contract. CapGeek however considers his playing AHL in 2010 as a year off his exemption. I don't see in the CBA that this is right. I sent them an email for clarification.

Where is this wrong? Inquiring and hopeful minds want to know.

They're subject to them. You're missing 2 key parts.

From Section 13.4

"The first season in which a Player who is age 20 or older plays in one (1) or more Professional Games shall constitute the first year for calculating the number of years he is exempt from Regular Waivers."

"For Players age 20 or older, Professional Games include NHL Games, all minor league regular season and playoff games and any other professional games, including but not limited to, play in European leagues when Player is on Loan to such club, and while Player is party to an SPC."

So Savard's 2010-11 counts as a season for waiver purposes.

And from Section 8.10

"Age of Players. As used in this Article, "age 18" means a Player reaching his eighteenth birthday between January 1 next preceding the Entry Draft and September 15 next following the Entry Draft, both dates included; "age 19" means a Player reaching his nineteenth birthday by no later than September 15 in the calendar year of the Entry Draft; "age 20" means a Player reaching his twentieth birthday by no later than December 31 in the calendar year of the Entry Draft; "age 21" means a Player reaching his twenty-first birthday by December 31 in the calendar year of the Entry Draft; and "age 22" means a Player reaching his twenty-second birthday by December 31 in the calendar year of the Entry Draft."

Meaning that Savard was considered 20 when he signed his contract. I agree, it's really odd that the definition of age changes like that.

EspenK 08-24-2013 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samkow (Post 70478351)
They're subject to them. You're missing 2 key parts.

From Section 13.4

"The first season in which a Player who is age 20 or older plays in one (1) or more Professional Games shall constitute the first year for calculating the number of years he is exempt from Regular Waivers."

So Savard's 2010-11 counts as a season for waiver purposes.

And from Section 8.10

"Age of Players. As used in this Article, "age 18" means a Player reaching his eighteenth birthday between January 1 next preceding the Entry Draft and September 15 next following the Entry Draft, both dates included; "age 19" means a Player reaching his nineteenth birthday by no later than September 15 in the calendar year of the Entry Draft; "age 20" means a Player reaching his twentieth birthday by no later than December 31 in the calendar year of the Entry Draft; "age 21" means a Player reaching his twenty-first birthday by December 31 in the calendar year of the Entry Draft; and "age 22" means a Player reaching his twenty-second birthday by December 31 in the calendar year of the Entry Draft."

Meaning that Savard was considered 20 when he signed his contract. I agree, it's really odd that the definition of age changes like that.

The way I read the waiver section is to mean that the age doesn't change, it only matters what your age is when the draft occurs and that stays constant throughout all calculations of waiver exemptions . In other words for this whole waiver thing Savard is considered 19. Age as defined in other sections doesn't matter. ???

I think Section 8 only applies to the draft and how long you retain rights. ???

Samkow 08-24-2013 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EspenK (Post 70478485)
The way I read the waiver section is to mean that the age doesn't change, it only matters what your age is when the draft occurs and that stays constant throughout all calculations of waiver exemptions . In other words for this whole waiver thing Savard is considered 19. Age as defined in other sections doesn't matter. ???

I think Section 8 only applies to the draft and how long you retain rights. ???

Copied the wrong definition!

What I meant to copy.

"1. For purposes of this Article, a "year" of exemption shall mean a playing season.
2. For purposes of this Article, "age 18" means a Player reaching his eighteenth birthday between January 1 next preceding the Entry Draft and September 15 next following the Entry Draft, both dates included; "age 19" means a Player reaching his nineteenth birthday in the calendar year of the Entry Draft; "age 20" means a Player reaching his twentieth birthday in the calendar year of the Entry Draft; and "age 21" means a Player reaching his twenty-first birthday in the calendar year of the Entry Draft."

So "Years from Signing NHL" is a hell of a misnomer.

So Savard qualifies, on account of having 4 playing seasons.

Double-Shift Lassť 08-24-2013 09:54 AM

Good and important topic. But I don't pretend to understand this stuff. They either are or they aren't and that's for someone to tell me, not the other way around. Good luck getting it sorted out.

EspenK 08-24-2013 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samkow (Post 70478575)
Copied the wrong definition!

What I meant to copy.

"1. For purposes of this Article, a "year" of exemption shall mean a playing season.
2. For purposes of this Article, "age 18" means a Player reaching his eighteenth birthday between January 1 next preceding the Entry Draft and September 15 next following the Entry Draft, both dates included; "age 19" means a Player reaching his nineteenth birthday in the calendar year of the Entry Draft; "age 20" means a Player reaching his twentieth birthday in the calendar year of the Entry Draft; and "age 21" means a Player reaching his twenty-first birthday in the calendar year of the Entry Draft."

So "Years from Signing NHL" is a hell of a misnomer.

So Savard qualifies, on account of having 4 playing seasons.

I think where we are differing is that I think once age is established-during draft year-it doesn't change and you seem to be letting it change based upon other events.

As I read this mumbo jumbo I think Savard has only played 2 years since his first NHL season was 2011-2012 (31 games),2012-13 was 2 and this coming year is 3.

Look at this excerpt

For purposes of Regular Waivers, the five (5) year exemption for an 18 year old
skater and the four (4) year exemption for a 19 year old skater shall both be reduced to three (3)
years commencing the first season that the 18 or 19 year old skater plays in eleven (11) NHL
Games or more. The next two (2) seasons, regardless of whether the skater plays any NHL
Games in either season, shall count as the second and third years toward satisfying the exemption


Maybe DSL is right- we should let someone else tell us :laugh:

Mayor Bee 08-24-2013 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EspenK (Post 70479363)
I think where we are differing is that I think once age is established-during draft year-it doesn't change and you seem to be letting it change based upon other events.

For the purpose of draft re-entry players this year (2013), the terms of the CBA under which the player was drafted (2011) applied. This was important because there was a distinction between retention of rights for European players that was changed in the new CBA.

Quote:

Maybe DSL is right- we should let someone else tell us :laugh:
Let's ask Jay Feaster; he's a lawyer who clearly has a firm grasp of the CBA.:sarcasm:

pete goegan 08-24-2013 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť (Post 70478705)
Good and important topic. But I don't pretend to understand this stuff. They either are or they aren't and that's for someone to tell me, not the other way around. Good luck getting it sorted out.

I'm with you.

Samkow 08-24-2013 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EspenK (Post 70479363)
I think where we are differing is that I think once age is established-during draft year-it doesn't change and you seem to be letting it change based upon other events.

I mean, it says right in the part I quoted that the definition of "age" changes...Not sure what you're looking for proof wise.

EspenK 08-24-2013 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samkow (Post 70480903)
I mean, it says right in the part I quoted that the definition of "age" changes...Not sure what you're looking for proof wise.

I don't think age "changes" regarding this section. I think it is established based on the age at the time of the entry draft year which in Savard's case was 2009 making him 19 for all purposes for all parts of section 13.

I think that is where we have a difference.

Maybe as Mayor suggested his determination is based on the old CBA.? Just checked the old CBA it looks the same.

Samkow 08-24-2013 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EspenK (Post 70481729)
I don't think age "changes" regarding this section. I think it is established based on the age at the time of the entry draft year which in Savard's case was 2009 making him 19 for all purposes for all parts of section 13.

I think that is where we have a difference.

Maybe as Mayor suggested his determination is based on the old CBA.? Just checked the old CBA it looks the same.

Like I said, it defines the ages in the waivers section.

Not sure how I can convince you otherwise. Fancy an avatar bet? :D


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