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s7ark 08-26-2013 09:24 AM

Official Eskimos and CFL 2013 season thread Part 3: Eskies 3-9, I ain't even mad now
 
Last one passed 1000. Continue here

Replacement 08-26-2013 09:46 AM

Lets hope this thread is better luck than the last one.

:banghead::headache::pcheer:

IV XIV XCI 08-26-2013 12:12 PM

Who has a longer leash in Edmonton:

Kavis Reed or Devan Dubnyk?

IV XIV XCI 08-26-2013 12:13 PM

If there is one thing to take away from this season it is that we have a warrior of a QB who is, eventually, going to win us a lot of games.

Maybe our defense can hold a team to less than 30 points in a game at some point. That would be swell.

Valhallis 08-26-2013 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IV XIV XCI (Post 70527577)
If there is one thing to take away from this season it is that we have a warrior of a QB who is, eventually, going to win us a lot of games.

If he's still alive at the end of the season... :sarcasm:

I'd agree it is VERY encouraging to see that at least. Maybe management got at least one thing right this year??

joestevens29 08-26-2013 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IV XIV XCI (Post 70527577)
If there is one thing to take away from this season it is that we have a warrior of a QB who is, eventually, going to win us a lot of games.

Maybe our defense can hold a team to less than 30 points in a game at some point. That would be swell.

If he makes it through the season and doesn't retire because of injuries

Tyrolean 08-26-2013 01:56 PM

Goodbye Reed, Marshall, most of the defence and Rhodes.

dustrock 08-26-2013 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IV XIV XCI (Post 70527543)
Who has a longer leash in Edmonton:

Kavis Reed or Devan Dubnyk?

It blows my mind that the head coach of a team who is 1-7 in a short (i.e. not 82) game season is still running the club.

Too many poor decisions/lack of preparation going back to last year.

I'd can Reed before giving up on the D.

Stoneman89 08-26-2013 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IV XIV XCI (Post 70527543)
Who has a longer leash in Edmonton:

Kavis Reed or Devan Dubnyk?

Trick question.


Kevin Lowe!

Stoneman89 08-26-2013 07:16 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
Only this isn't Toronto or Milanovich or an experienced saavy QB like Ricky Ray. Reed needs to recognize what he has and use the safest way for his rookie QB and team to be successful. Throwing the house at the run means there also can be some over-runs and missed gaps, resulting in an easy touchdown. Anyone knows that a run is less treacherous than a pass, and with only 2 yards to paydirt and 3 chances to do it, it isn't rocket science.
You must not be watching many games.

Teams are getting stuffed at the goal line left right and center. Always have. Even 2-3 plays in a row. Going straight up the gut there against a stacked D with everybody on the line is straight up stupid. On a 55yd wide field with 20yd deep endzones any of the OTHER options are imminently preferable. Smart teams generally figuring this out."


Interesting. Because I could swear on most short yardage plays, teams send in their "heavy packages" to do what you say is "stupid". Or maybe you and I aren't watching the same things?

Replacement 08-26-2013 07:39 PM

^ I think we are definitely seeing different things. Theres an ongoing notion in football that you should be able to run it in from a few yds out. If you're talking 70's, 80's, 90's teams would say things like if you can't run that sucker in with 2 or 3 tries you don't deserve the TD. Go big or go home being the motto. You're correct there.

But for around the last dozen or more years I've seen more of an acknowledgement that theres some monster defenders in the CFL that make a living stuffing things like this out. Starting with a guy like Montford the tables really did change where teams would opt to around, or pass, rather than trying to go through the pretty quick monsters.

What you say is conventional wisdom and I can certainly see how you would get the impression. But I think a lot of clubs are mixing it up more and more and looking for the easy score with a guy thats not covered in the endzone. Good teams seem to pick that out these days.

That said we're not a good team so what am I talking about. ;)

Stoneman89 08-26-2013 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Replacement (Post 70541011)
^ I think we are definitely seeing different things. Theres an ongoing notion in football that you should be able to run it in from a few yds out. If you're talking 70's, 80's, 90's teams would say things like if you can't run that sucker in with 2 or 3 tries you don't deserve the TD. Go big or go home being the motto. You're correct there.

But for around the last dozen or more years I've seen more of an acknowledgement that theres some monster defenders in the CFL that make a living stuffing things like this out. Starting with a guy like Montford the tables really did change where teams would opt to around, or pass, rather than trying to go through the pretty quick monsters.

What you say is conventional wisdom and I can certainly see how you would get the impression. But I think a lot of clubs are mixing it up more and more and looking for the easy score with a guy thats not covered in the endzone. Good teams seem to pick that out these days.

That said we're not a good team so what am I talking about. ;)

But I'm talking about this year as well, and not just end zone situations. Check out what happens when teams needs any type of short yardage. The "heavy units" come out, many times with the teams young developing QB. And I bet 8 times out of 10, they will run the ball, either by a sneak, or through the line somewhere. Again, if you see a multitude of passes and sweeps being constantly run in these situations, you and I must be watching different games, because I'm not seeing it. And of course, it's one more excuse for Reed to get his buddy Joseph some playing time, which is pathetic.

Cloned 08-26-2013 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrolean (Post 70530797)
Goodbye Reed, Marshall, most of the defence and Rhodes.

Honestly, most of that is Hervey's fault.

Still can't believe he decided not to re-sign Weldon Brown.

Replacement 08-26-2013 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoneman89 (Post 70541379)
But I'm talking about this year as well, and not just end zone situations. Check out what happens when teams needs any type of short yardage. The "heavy units" come out, many times with the teams young developing QB. And I bet 8 times out of 10, they will run the ball, either by a sneak, or through the line somewhere. Again, if you see a multitude of passes and sweeps being constantly run in these situations, you and I must be watching different games, because I'm not seeing it. And of course, it's one more excuse for Reed to get his buddy Joseph some playing time, which is pathetic.

Oh I meant endzone situations specifically. I find that teams really try to shore it up there for the big goal line stands and see that as being fairly typical. The big hoggies get out there and its like running in quagmire.

In other short yardage situations I agree with you. Just thought we were talking goal line stands.

Moonlapse Vertigo 08-26-2013 11:18 PM

It's cute how all of the football analysts keep repeating that the Eskimos deserve a better record and a better fate this season. Dave Randorf was the latest to chime in about that today.

Their defense is repugnant garbage and so is their coaching staff so they deserve their record and their playoffless fate. Period.

Gord 08-27-2013 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo (Post 70547405)
It's cute how all of the football analysts keep repeating that the Eskimos deserve a better record and a better fate this season. Dave Randorf was the latest to chime in about that today.

Their defense is repugnant garbage and so is their coaching staff so they deserve their record and their playoffless fate. Period.

I think a business can be a reflection of ownership and upper management.
so the esks have a team that represents the quality of Rhodes leadership.

Stoneman89 08-27-2013 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gord (Post 70552849)
I think a business can be a reflection of ownership and upper management.
so the esks have a team that represents the quality of Rhodes leadership.


Hey come on. The guys' strengths are in marketing and entertainment, not football. Who can forget his brilliant move to bring in Vanilla Ice for an unforgettable game day concert!:laugh::sarcasm:

joestevens29 08-27-2013 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo (Post 70547405)
It's cute how all of the football analysts keep repeating that the Eskimos deserve a better record and a better fate this season. Dave Randorf was the latest to chime in about that today.

Their defense is repugnant garbage and so is their coaching staff so they deserve their record and their playoffless fate. Period.

Whoever was on yesterday morning was saying much the same, except he said when it comes down to it your record of 1-7 means a lot more than being so close in most games.

Stoneman89 08-27-2013 11:18 AM

In the words of the great ex-coach Bill Parcells...

"We are what our record says we are."

Beerfish 08-27-2013 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo (Post 70547405)
It's cute how all of the football analysts keep repeating that the Eskimos deserve a better record and a better fate this season. Dave Randorf was the latest to chime in about that today.

Their defense is repugnant garbage and so is their coaching staff so they deserve their record and their playoffless fate. Period.

They don't seem to understand that the team with any semblance of coaching could very well have 3 more wins and that dubious coaching decisions have cost them, not bad luck.

Stoneman89 08-27-2013 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beerfish (Post 70556945)
They don't seem to understand that the team with any semblance of coaching could very well have 3 more wins and that dubious coaching decisions have cost them, not bad luck.

I know, but some on here would prefer to blame the QB and say that the coaching decisions have not been that bad.

joestevens29 08-27-2013 12:11 PM

I think what's worse is they are taking the whole "the players can only win the game" too far. Granted I don't know that we'd have more wins if Reed didn't make some of the calls he did, but he just isn't giving the team the best opportunity to win.

Red Deer Rebel 08-27-2013 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoneman89 (Post 70557445)
I know, but some on here would prefer to blame the QB and say that the coaching decisions have not been that bad.

Such types also used to attack Ricky Ray when he was here. Yet Ray has enjoyed nothing but success since leaving here, marching his team up and down the field, winning a championship, and putting on a passing clinic week after week.

Yet, when he was here, he was ripped for being unable to move the team, and for his lack of mobility - which were deemed to be fatal flaws in his game making him unfit for the CFL. :laugh:

Having said this, I like Mike Reilly as a replacement for Ray. But beyond Stamps and Chambers (developing kid), I don't see much out there in terms of weapons for him to use.

HotToddy 08-27-2013 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoneman89 (Post 70557445)
I know, but some on here would prefer to blame the QB and say that the coaching decisions have not been that bad.

Can we blame both??

Every game in your mind boils down to one play call, where you and your superior analysis from the couch would have nailed it

You never consider, play calling in the game as a whole, personal or execution

I to think the coaching has been poor this year; bad scheme for the personal available, little or no discipline in regards to penalties and general confusion from the sidelines in key moments

But Kerry Joseph has touched the ball 7 times in the Red Zone this year and scored twice

Were you going bat-#$#$ crazy when Josepgh flipped to MaCarty on the option for a TD against Hamilton

And again, you can't throw INT in the endzone in pro ball, terrible throw which in all likelyhood cost us the win.

Stoneman89 08-27-2013 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotToddy (Post 70562319)
Can we blame both??

Every game in your mind boils down to one play call, where you and your superior analysis from the couch would have nailed it

You never consider, play calling in the game as a whole, personal or execution

I to think the coaching has been poor this year; bad scheme for the personal available, little or no discipline in regards to penalties and general confusion from the sidelines in key moments

But Kerry Joseph has touched the ball 7 times in the Red Zone this year and scored twice

Were you going bat-#$#$ crazy when Josepgh flipped to MaCarty on the option for a TD against Hamilton

And again, you can't throw INT in the endzone in pro ball, terrible throw which in all likelyhood cost us the win.

When you lose by a total of 12 points in 4 games, each of those likely come down to one or 2 key plays, so I'm going to stick with my theory that some if not all of those were winnable games. There may be a half decent game plan, which is the coaches responsibility, and for the most part, that seems to be coming around. I am more concerned about how Reed reacts under fire during the heat of the moment during critical situations. Far too many times this year, he has made these mistakes, then frantically tried to change them. Last year we sent out the punt team without a punter. We dressed 3 starting running backs and played one of them. Reed could not count or organize his unit under pressure during a Grey Cup game. This stuff isn't fabricated from a couch. Earlier in the year, you kept blaming it on the players only, absolving the coaches of any responsibility. Good to see you've at least changed your tune somewhat. I have never said that our personnel does not need to be upgraded/changed as well. Our defensive backfield is a mess. Our return game, outside of Cary Koch's miracle TD has been virtually non-existent. Grant Shaw cannot kick a timely field goal if his life depended on it.

And Kerry Joseph scoring while in the Red Zone twice out of 7 times should be nothing to get yourself excited about, considering all of those times likely are from inside the 4 or 5 yard lines. The last game, they had two chances with him at the controls in short yardage. The first time was the completely predictable sweep option, which seems to be the only play they have for him now. That ended in a loss, as Saskatchewan unfortunately has access to previous game film. The second time was going to be the same play by the looks of it, until the ball was fumbled, again for a loss. So, it appears everyone in league seems to have the book on this vaunted short yardage play of ours at this point.

Throwing INT's are never a good thing, but with an inexperienced, rookie QB still finding his way and getting his feet wet in this league,, sometimes you need to protect him a bit and not put every single decisive play on his arm, and let the running game play a part to help him out, especially on first down and short. And throwing in an ice cold Kerry Joseph is not the answer to that question, as is being proven time and again as the season wears on. Reed's overall coaching record is not impeccable, and in case you didn't notice, we are 1-7 this year. I think that leaves plenty of room for criticism for both hacks like me and experts alike.


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