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-   -   Proposal: Leafs - Flames (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1493497)

Johnny Hoxville 09-04-2013 02:42 PM

Leafs - Flames
 
To Toronto:

:leafs

Mikael Backlund
Greg Nemisz
Chris Butler

To Calgary:

:flames

Jake Gardiner
JML

Thoughts?

This address the Leafs cap issues and gives Calgary a legitimate top 4 dman that becomes part of their new core for a long time.

Fearless Leaf* 09-04-2013 02:43 PM

:laugh: horrible. leafs laugh all the way to the bank.

InfinityIggy 09-04-2013 02:43 PM

Leaf fans won't like giving up Gardiner for that package. This trade makes the Flames situation at center even more dire.

re5piration 09-04-2013 02:44 PM

Why would the Leafs give up one of their promising young dmen just to dump Liles contract?

Johnny Hoxville 09-04-2013 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfinityIggy (Post 70788749)
Leaf fans won't like giving up Gardiner for that package. This trade makes the Flames situation at center even more dire.

It does for next season, but it addresses a greater organizational need long term. We would need to sign a remaining FA for next season.

Johnny Hoxville 09-04-2013 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kulie (Post 70788753)
Why would the Leafs give up one of their promising young dmen just to dump Liles contract?

To resign Kadri and Franson. Also, Backlund is a very good, young top 6 center. He looked fantastic last season.

TheHudlinator 09-04-2013 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVW (Post 70788859)
To resign Kadri and Franson. Also, Backlund is a very good, young top 6 center. He looked fantastic last season.

Your overselling Backlund. He hasn't proven being a top 6 center, he had a promising 32 games last year but until he can duplicate it over a full season he isn't anything more than a #3 center. This is a poor trade for TO I think a better deal would be to go after Franson + JML.

LeafsNation149 09-04-2013 02:52 PM

Make it franson and liles and you got a deal

Johnny Hoxville 09-04-2013 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHudlinator (Post 70788933)
Your overselling Backlund. He hasn't proven being a top 6 center, he had a promising 32 games last year but until he can duplicate it over a full season he isn't anything more than a #3 center. This is a poor trade for TO I think a better deal would be to go after Franson + JML.

There's lots of players in the NHL that are being talked about in a very high regard because of their performance from this past shortened season. Everything Backlund showed me last season was that of a top 6 player.

CaptainCrunch67 09-04-2013 03:20 PM

Calgary hangs up the phone, they aren't going to move Backlund, and JML is of no use to them.

Calgary is going to try and develop their own blueline prospects.

And oh yeah, JML does nothing for the Flames.

BlueBaron 09-04-2013 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeafsNation149 (Post 70788987)
Make it franson and liles and you got a deal

Don't think we all agree trading our biggest and only right shooting defensemen is the best idea. Seriously I don't see us trying to move anyone but Liles from that position.

BlueBaron 09-04-2013 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch67 (Post 70789895)
Calgary hangs up the phone, they aren't going to move Backlund, and JML is of no use to them.

Calgary is going to try and develop their own blueline prospects.

And oh yeah, JML does nothing for the Flames.

You guys are rebuilding, I doubt there is any trade between our two teams that make sense unless it's a playoff rental for prospect/picks kind of thing at the deadline.Don't kid yourself, JML would be high in your depth chart but just doesn't make sense for your team at this stage. Franson would but we'd regret trading him too much . Off hand I can't think of anyone on Calgary's roster that they would trade that is worth Franson and we aren't in the market for picks and prospects unless it's for Liles.

Our teams just aren't compatible.

Dutchy09* 09-04-2013 04:15 PM

Solid deal for both sides.

HighLifeMan 09-04-2013 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHudlinator (Post 70788933)
Your overselling Backlund. He hasn't proven being a top 6 center, he had a promising 32 games last year but until he can duplicate it over a full season he isn't anything more than a #3 center. This is a poor trade for TO I think a better deal would be to go after Franson + JML.

...and what has Jake Gardiner proven at the NHL level for an extended period of time, Hudlinator?

In addition to that Gardiner is also only a year younger than he Backlund, so it's not exactly like there is a huge discrepancy here in terms of where these players are at in their development.

I pass on this trade from a Calgary standpoint. Taking on Liles while losing Backlund in the process is simply not worth it.

Paper 09-04-2013 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVW (Post 70789419)
There's lots of players in the NHL that are being talked about in a very high regard because of their performance from this past shortened season. Everything Backlund showed me last season was that of a top 6 player.

Except he didn't even play in the top 6. He didn't get the ice-time of a top 6 player, he didn't get the offensive opportunities of a top 6 player and with the exception of possibly Hudler he didn't have top 6 linemates. He wasn't a top 6 player last year. He was also only 23 last year and has more than enough potential to develop into a top 6 player, but let's hold up on calling him a "very good, young top 6 center" until he's proven to be a top 6 center.

With that said, I think until another prospect outside of Monahan looks to have more potential as a top 6 center all this does for the Flames is fill one hole by creating another.

cyris 09-04-2013 04:32 PM

Pass for me.

Backlund is a nice young player but doesn't really fill a need.
I also have zero interest in the idea of trading Gardiner to keep Franson. IMO Gards will be the better player.

I would rather retain a some of Liles' salary and trade him than move someone like Gardiner to do it. I dont think Liles at 2.5 - 2.8M a season would be to hard to move if the team didn't expect any value in return.

Johnny Hoxville 09-04-2013 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan (Post 70792163)
...and what has Jake Gardiner proven at the NHL level for an extended period of time, Hudlinator?

In addition to that Gardiner is also only a year younger than he Backlund, so it's not exactly like there is a huge discrepancy here in terms of where these players are at in their development.

I pass on this trade from a Calgary standpoint. Taking on Liles while losing Backlund in the process is simply not worth it.

That was hard for me to in proposing this, but the fact is the Leafs need to dump him. I also view Liles as an upgrade over Butler, so while we take on more cap, we upgrade our D at both positions with Gardiner and Liles.

My hopes would be to play Liles and basically showcase him to flip next offseason or at the deadline again for more assets. He would get the minutes he needs on our team to improve his game.

Maplelaughs97 09-04-2013 04:35 PM

Gardiner is far an away the most valuable piece...just not realistic....What has he proven? How about the all rookie team over an entire season? Had a sophomore slump/concussion issues last season but was money in the playoffs; huge potential...Leafs hang up and block the number...

Canadian Game 09-04-2013 04:40 PM

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Mikael Backlund somewhat of a bust, or is there still hope for him to break out? I had some hopes for the guy and thought he would be a decent player, but it seemed like he fizzled more than anything.

HighLifeMan 09-04-2013 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVW (Post 70792383)
That was hard for me to in proposing this, but the fact is the Leafs need to dump him. I also view Liles as an upgrade over Butler, so while we take on more cap, we upgrade our D at both positions with Gardiner and Liles.

My hopes would be to play Liles and basically showcase him to flip next offseason or at the deadline again for more assets. He would get the minutes he needs on our team to improve his game.

Well if that's how you personally see things, then I can understand where you are coming from.
I personally don't agree with that statement myself as the last thing this defensive unit needs is another smallish, soft, one dimensional defender. Additionally Liles is on the older side of things, has regressed significantly over the past two years, and is overpaid for another two years.

Butler may have his warts but he is positionally sound, and actually showed some nice progression in terms of his physicality as the season wore on.

InfinityIggy 09-04-2013 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian Game (Post 70792519)
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Mikael Backlund somewhat of a bust, or is there still hope for him to break out? I had some hopes for the guy and thought he would be a decent player, but it seemed like he fizzled more than anything.

He has been great when healthy. The problem is he has had several freak injuries recently. If he has a healthy season 50 points isn't unrealistic.

blankall 09-04-2013 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfinityIggy (Post 70792829)
He has been great when healthy. The problem is he has had several freak injuries recently. If he has a healthy season 50 points isn't unrealistic.

Backlund also appears to have pretty good chemistry with Sven. Backlund has really improved his defensive and physical games over the last few years as well. I'm partial to keeping him. Gardiner looks like Ian White Part 2 to me.

Right now, this deal is lopsided towards the Flames, but, in a year with no injuries and quality chances, Backlund has a solid chance of emerging as the better asset.

Maplelaughs97 09-04-2013 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blankall (Post 70793043)
Backlund also appears to have pretty good chemistry with Sven. Backlund has really improved his defensive and physical games over the last few years as well. I'm partial to keeping him. Gardiner looks like Ian White Part 2 to me.

Right now, this deal is lopsided towards the Flames, but, in a year with no injuries and quality chances, Backlund has a solid chance of emerging as the better asset.

They couldn't be more dissimilar.

Drew311 09-04-2013 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan (Post 70792163)
...and what has Jake Gardiner proven at the NHL level for an extended period of time, Hudlinator?

In addition to that Gardiner is also only a year younger than he Backlund, so it's not exactly like there is a huge discrepancy here in terms of where these players are at in their development.

I pass on this trade from a Calgary standpoint. Taking on Liles while losing Backlund in the process is simply not worth it.

Gardiner at least had a full season as an effective top 4 defenseman, as a rookie none the less. He was also arguably the Leafs best defenseman in the playoffs. It was only 7 games, but proving himself on that type of stage against a top team is impressive.

Backlund has played twice as many games as Gardiner to prove himself as a top six forward in the NHL, and hasn't done so to date.

No chance the Leafs do this deal. Kadri and Franson will be signed to short term deals and will go into camp with 21 players if need be. Definitely no need to give up a top asset to get under the cap, they aren't that desperate.

blueNwhite89 09-04-2013 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blankall (Post 70793043)
Backlund also appears to have pretty good chemistry with Sven. Backlund has really improved his defensive and physical games over the last few years as well. I'm partial to keeping him. Gardiner looks like Ian White Part 2 to me.

Right now, this deal is lopsided towards the Flames, but, in a year with no injuries and quality chances, Backlund has a solid chance of emerging as the better asset.

Why?


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