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-   -   Speculation: 2013-2014 Roster Discussion III (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1497553)

Telos 09-13-2013 02:30 PM

2013-2014 Roster Discussion III
 
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KingKopitar11* 09-13-2013 02:40 PM

Man I really hope toffoli makes it. It doesn't make any sense for him not to be a regular already on our team. We can use him a lot.

Herby 09-13-2013 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 (Post 71078233)
Man I really hope toffoli makes it. It doesn't make any sense for him not to be a regular already on our team. We can use him a lot.

He has to much skill for the Kings bottom lines, he wouldn't fit in. Plus he provides little help in the event of a bar fight.


Oh and Johnny Utah, you keep bringing up the toughness, the taming a tiger blah blah blah. The Kings 2012 team was anything but a goon squad, you act like they would never go with finesse players on the fourth line, when in reality they had Richardson and Gagne on the 4th line in the playoffs, while Clifford was scratched.

The Black1963 09-13-2013 02:53 PM

I wonder if TT will start out in Manchester as a LW...

Personally, I want him on our opening day roster, but I have to say with Frattin getting the first look as our 2LW and Sutter having a hard-on for Lewis as our 3RW, I guess, I shouldn't be surprised if he isn't on our opening day roster. Disappointed, yes, but not surprised.

KingCanadain1976 09-13-2013 02:54 PM

the only way it would make sence is because toffoli can go down without any risk of losing him to waviers and someone like Kozan would make the team because he would have to go on wavier to goto ahl. I honestly don't see this happening but its possible

Johnny Utah 09-13-2013 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herby (Post 71078643)
He has to much skill for the Kings bottom lines, he wouldn't fit in. Plus he provides little help in the event of a bar fight.


Oh and Johnny Utah, you keep bringing up the toughness, the taming a tiger blah blah blah. The Kings 2012 team was anything but a goon squad, you act like they would never go with finesse players on the fourth line, when in reality they had Richardson and Gagne on the 4th line in the playoffs, while Clifford was scratched.

Yes, but who was the winger opposite Richardson and Gagne? Jordan Nolan. Who had a great fight with Chris Stewart and was physical in every round.

Each Kings line in the playoff had a big, tough winger. King was playing phenomanel and had a fight with BJ Crombeen, Penner was a pain in the butt to all the Coyotoes. Clifford played in the first round until he got destroyed with that illegal check by Bitz.

Williams-Kopitar-Brown
Penner-Richards-Carter
King-Stoll-Lewis
Richardson/Clifford/Gagne-Fraser-Nolan

We had Brown, King, Richards, Penner, Nolan, Fraser, Greene and Mitchell...all of them could mix it up.

Last year, most of those guys struggled or were injured.

The Black1963 09-13-2013 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herby (Post 71078643)
He has to much skill for the Kings bottom lines, he wouldn't fit in.

How can you say that TT has too much skill to be a bottom 6, when you've been adamant about adding scorers to our bottom 6? Seems a bit contradicting, no?

I don't recall who but someone suggested that Lewis play 3LW opening up 3RW for TT.

Lewis-Stoll-TT

I'd be open to that.

KingKopitar11* 09-13-2013 03:03 PM

We can roll skilled 4 lines. He should play. You think Fraser knows how to fight? Fraser never fights, toffoli doesn't have to either.

DAkings20 09-13-2013 03:09 PM

Fraser fights, he just sucks at it like Greene. Kings need to focus on scoring goals and not about fighting. The days of the heavyweights are over and I am more than confident in the team toughness we have.

Gentle Ben Kenobi 09-13-2013 03:14 PM

Ziggy said this in the last thread

Quote:

Carcillo is the new Brad Richardson
I Fraser is are going to share the duty

Herby 09-13-2013 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black1963 (Post 71078913)
How can you say that TT has too much skill to be a bottom 6, when you've been adamant about adding scorers to our bottom 6? Seems a bit contradicting, no?

I don't recall who but someone suggested that Lewis play 3LW opening up 3RW for TT.

Lewis-Stoll-TT

I'd be open to that.

I was being sarcastic about him being to skilled for the bottom 6.

I would be fine with a Lewis-Stoll-Toffoli 3rd line also, that would atleast add a guy with 30 goal hands to that line because Stoll and Lewis are clearly not capable of doing anything offensively with who they have been given to date.

I just don't see how our bottom six doesn't look terrible again this season without TT (or Frattin) moving down there. Do people not realize Stoll finished last year with 1 goal in his final 32 games, and the lineups some people have posted would leave him as the Kings best offensive option in the bottom six.

The Kings did not get an ES goal from any of the bottom six forwards in 18 playoff games last year, it's clearly a problem, but some people don't want to acknowledge it and would rather have our bottom six be Stoll, Lewis and the Four Horseman.

Johnny Utah 09-13-2013 03:25 PM

Lewis-Stoll-Toffoli???

There is no size on that line and you just put Lewis on the LW, a position he rarely plays.

If anything it will be Clifford or King or Frattin or Carcillo with Stoll and Toffoli or Lewis.

Sutter and DL love having one big forward, one center, and one skilled winger.

Herby 09-13-2013 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Utah (Post 71079607)
Sutter and DL love having one big forward, one center, and one skilled winger.

Who plays the "skilled winger" part on our current bottom six if TT does indeed start in Manchester?

I don't see a single "skilled winger" in our bottom six, hell I don't see a single skilled player.

I don't really care about how tall someone is or a guys fight record (which means zero). I care about scoring goals, something we didn't get from our bottom six in three playoff rounds last year.

But hey, if people would rather see a 3rd line of Clifford-Stoll-Lewis that is their problem, it will be the same struggles we saw last year.

KingKopitar11* 09-13-2013 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Utah (Post 71079607)
Lewis-Stoll-Toffoli???

There is no size on that line and you just put Lewis on the LW, a position he rarely plays.

If anything it will be Clifford or King or Frattin or Carcillo with Stoll and Toffoli or Lewis.

Sutter and DL love having one big forward, one center, and one skilled winger.

True. But you make it sound like clifford and carcillo are massive. The product that the kings can put with a third line with toffoli is greater than a typical kings line.

The Black1963 09-13-2013 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Utah (Post 71079607)
Lewis-Stoll-Toffoli???

There is no size on that line and you just put Lewis on the LW, a position he rarely plays.

If anything it will be Clifford or King or Frattin or Carcillo with Stoll and Toffoli or Lewis.

Sutter and DL love having one big forward, one center, and one skilled winger.

Neither Brown or Williams is considered a "big forward" by hockey standards, so, there goes your theory on playing one big forward, one center and skilled winger.

As for Lewis, when he played 2LW, he actually played pretty well. I believe he scored a couple of goals in a handful of games.

Johnny Utah 09-13-2013 03:55 PM

Kings will keep Lewis at RW. There is now enough depth at both wings, they don't need him playing his off position.

I don't need to argue my points, just wait and see how the season starts and I guarantee you that if Toffoli makes it his oppositve winger is either King, Carcillo, Frattin or Clifford....And if not, it will be the same....one of those big forwards with Stoll-Lewis.

And Black1963....Brown, not a big forward? He was the most physical player in our Cup run. Two big hits turned two series around. He is considered one of the best power forwards in the game today even though he doesn't really fight, he can do it all.

BigKing 09-13-2013 04:29 PM

The answer to the Bottom 6 problem is the obvious shuffling of centers:

11
77
10
28

Or they can just keep on trying to force guys to play out of their natural positions.

Until that happens, which is probably never, scoring will be limited in the Bottom 6.

23-11-14
21-77-73
74-10-22
13-28-71

24, Carcillo

Richards still gets huge PP and PK time and there is actually a guy in the Bottom 6 with offensive skill. There is also a line with a lot of toughness with Stoll more than likely being even dirtier than usual with the two tough guys riding next to him.

Everyone wins except the Flyers expats who believe Carter/Richards need to play on the same line and sleep in bunk beds together every night. I could care less if Richards' even strength scoring numbers drop a bit if it increases those of whomever he plays with.

kingsholygrail 09-13-2013 04:34 PM

I'd rather Carter continue to score on the wing.

Kings4thecup 09-13-2013 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigKing (Post 71081399)
The answer to the Bottom 6 problem is the obvious shuffling of centers:

11
77
10
28

Or they can just keep on trying to force guys to play out of their natural positions.

Until that happens, which is probably never, scoring will be limited in the Bottom 6.

23-11-14
21-77-73
74-10-22
13-28-71

24, Carcillo

Richards still gets huge PP and PK time and there is actually a guy in the Bottom 6 with offensive skill. There is also a line with a lot of toughness with Stoll more than likely being even dirtier than usual with the two tough guys riding next to him.

Everyone wins except the Flyers expats who believe Carter/Richards need to play on the same line and sleep in bunk beds together every night. I could care less if Richards' even strength scoring numbers drop a bit if it increases those of whomever he plays with.

I like some resemblance to this, but I seem to be in the minority.

I think it a fallacy to think Carter can't score without Richards. Carter is a stud, and will fill the net with any solid players around him.

Herby 09-13-2013 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigKing (Post 71081399)
The answer to the Bottom 6 problem is the obvious shuffling of centers:

11
77
10
28

Or they can just keep on trying to force guys to play out of their natural positions.

Until that happens, which is probably never, scoring will be limited in the Bottom 6.

23-11-14
21-77-73
74-10-22
13-28-71

24, Carcillo

Richards still gets huge PP and PK time and there is actually a guy in the Bottom 6 with offensive skill. There is also a line with a lot of toughness with Stoll more than likely being even dirtier than usual with the two tough guys riding next to him.

Everyone wins except the Flyers expats who believe Carter/Richards need to play on the same line and sleep in bunk beds together every night. I could care less if Richards' even strength scoring numbers drop a bit if it increases those of whomever he plays with.

This is spot on, but sadly it doesn't seem like it's going to be tried.

That gives the Kings three lines capable of scoring, and matchup problems down the middle for every team we face and lets TT and Carter play their natural positions. But like you said, looks like it's not even going to get a sniff.

A bottom six of

King - Stoll - Lewis
Clifford - Fraser - Nolan

...Is really really really bad, nothing to be excited about with either of those lines.

Johnny Utah 09-13-2013 04:45 PM

That's why I see King or Fraser being moved to shuffle up the bottom 6 a bit.

Herby 09-13-2013 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Utah (Post 71081761)
That's why I see King or Fraser being moved to shuffle up the bottom 6 a bit.

And replaced with what?

Replacing King with Clifford on 3rd line LW is a lateral move at best, Clifford/Stoll/Lewis is still going to struggle to generate any kind of offense and there is a downgrade defensively from King to Clifford.

And putting Andreoff between Nolan and Carcillo still leaves the Kings with a hopeless fourth line situation.

The Kings need someone on the bottom six that can atleast keep opposing teams honest, like I said, our most skilled player on the bottom six has 1 goal in his last 32 games and 3 goals in 45 playoff games as a King, that is a major issue. As we saw in 2012 this team needs to be able to roll 4 lines, right now I don't think they can.

Richie10 09-13-2013 04:51 PM

Why anyone is opposed to at least LOOKING at some combination of XXXXX-Carter-Toffoli is beyond me. Those two clearly had chemistry last year in the playoffs with a lot on the line. They single handedly kept us in the Blackhawks series.

I know Richards is the auto-lock second line C, but I'm not opposed to looking at some different options there as long as we're calling the second line a scoring line.

And I echo what Herby said. Having guys like Lewis, King, Clifford, et al "ahead" of Toffoli on the depth chart isn't exactly the greatest thing in the world.

King'sPawn 09-13-2013 05:57 PM

I agree with the suggestion of having four lines centered by Kopitar, Carter, Richards, Stoll.

Ziggy Stardust 09-13-2013 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King'sPawn (Post 71083431)
I agree with the suggestion of having four lines centered by Kopitar, Carter, Richards, Stoll.

We did see the Kings try that during the playoffs, so I'd say it is a possibility to see that type of lineup if they feel the need to spread talent around every line.


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