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-   -   Sean Couturier vs. Brayden Schenn (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1497683)

Azir 09-13-2013 10:02 PM

Sean Couturier vs. Brayden Schenn
 
What are your expectations for both players for this upcoming season and, which of the two will have the most productive season? And if the Flyers end up having a rough season all around could one of them be on the way out?

Spongolium* 09-14-2013 05:41 AM

Without Briere hampering every chance that he creates, I can really see Schenn having a productive season as long as he is kept in the middle. He doesn't really have the skill set suited to a winger. I really hope the flyers see this. If he's down the middle I think 60 points will be the minimum he will hit.

I think this is going to be a strong year for Couturier but in a different way. I think he's going to be top 3 selke votes. 40+ points, Selke level defense, strong +-, strong corsi.

DrinkFightFlyers 09-14-2013 09:06 AM

I think if Schenn is playing on the wing of VL like it is being talked about, Schenn will have a much better offensive season than Couturier, and that is pretty much a lock (barring any injury). He'll get more and better minutes than Couturier and will be playing with a top tier center. That being said, I think Couturier will likely have a bigger "impact" on the team this season. He'll be shutting down top lines and killing key penalties, while also putting in some points.

I'd say Schenn scores in the 50 point level, Couturier gets in the 30s (maybe 40s if he gets some PP time).

Azir 09-14-2013 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravyboatcaptn (Post 71093715)
Without Briere hampering every chance that he creates, I can really see Schenn having a productive season as long as he is kept in the middle. He doesn't really have the skill set suited to a winger. I really hope the flyers see this. If he's down the middle I think 60 points will be the minimum he will hit.

I think this is going to be a strong year for Couturier but in a different way. I think he's going to be top 3 selke votes. 40+ points, Selke level defense, strong +-, strong corsi.

I would love to see that but, that might be too optimistic.

Schenn is capable of doing what you said, and he should do well with Vinny and Simmonds, but I wonder how productive he will be at the wing.

I have heard Couts has put on over 10 pounds this summer so, I am really interested to see how he does. I would love see Couts get some PP and PK time. Maybe some PP time would spark some offensive production for him.

BillyShoe1721 09-14-2013 11:19 AM

I'm expecting about 55 points from Schenn as he continues to adjust to playing on the wing, likely with Lecavalier at center and Read or Simmonds at wing. For a 12 game stretch, 1/4 of the season, he was over a point a game with 14 points in that time. If last year was a full season, he would have had roughly 45 points. I don't think a 10 point increase is unrealistic. Their third year was when Richards, Carter, and Giroux broke out offensively(Carter more in his 4th year). And he's up for an extension, and I'm sure he would like to parlay that into a longer 4-5M contract instead of a 2 year bridge.

Azir 09-14-2013 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 (Post 71096983)
I'm expecting about 55 points from Schenn as he continues to adjust to playing on the wing, likely with Lecavalier at center and Read or Simmonds at wing. For a 12 game stretch, 1/4 of the season, he was over a point a game with 14 points in that time. If last year was a full season, he would have had roughly 45 points. I don't think a 10 point increase is unrealistic. Their third year was when Richards, Carter, and Giroux broke out offensively(Carter more in his 4th year). And he's up for an extension, and I'm sure he would like to parlay that into a longer 4-5M contract instead of a 2 year bridge.

When I said unrealistic I was mainly referring too the Couturier prediction. I just don't think he will be in the top 3 of selke voting.

DrinkFightFlyers 09-14-2013 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tpinheiro4 (Post 71097009)
When I said unrealistic I was mainly referring too the Couturier prediction. I just don't think he will be in the top 3 of selke voting.

Yeah I agree. Right or wrong, a lot of the Selke votes go to guys who will put up good numbers as well. Couturier scoring in the 30-40 point range likely won't crack the top three when guys like Toews, Bergeron, and Datsyuk are out there putting up those same numbers or better. That's my take anyway.

Beef Invictus 09-14-2013 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers (Post 71094835)
I think if Schenn is playing on the wing of VL like it is being talked about, Schenn will have a much better offensive season than Couturier, and that is pretty much a lock (barring any injury). He'll get more and better minutes than Couturier and will be playing with a top tier center. That being said, I think Couturier will likely have a bigger "impact" on the team this season. He'll be shutting down top lines and killing key penalties, while also putting in some points.

I'd say Schenn scores in the 50 point level, Couturier gets in the 30s (maybe 40s if he gets some PP time).

Sounds about right to me.

Spongolium* 09-14-2013 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers (Post 71097095)
Yeah I agree. Right or wrong, a lot of the Selke votes go to guys who will put up good numbers as well. Couturier scoring in the 30-40 point range likely won't crack the top three when guys like Toews, Bergeron, and Datsyuk are out there putting up those same numbers or better. That's my take anyway.

I think the winners have always had this trend. But top 3 has had some great defensive players there too. Manny Maholtra is one, John Madden another. I think if Couts hits 40 points and puts up the best Corsi and +-, he will easily make the top 3.

jd2210 09-14-2013 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers (Post 71094835)
I think if Schenn is playing on the wing of VL like it is being talked about, Schenn will have a much better offensive season than Couturier, and that is pretty much a lock (barring any injury). He'll get more and better minutes than Couturier and will be playing with a top tier center. That being said, I think Couturier will likely have a bigger "impact" on the team this season. He'll be shutting down top lines and killing key penalties, while also putting in some points.

I'd say Schenn scores in the 50 point level, Couturier gets in the 30s (maybe 40s if he gets some PP time).

I agree with this.

DrinkFightFlyers 09-14-2013 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beef Invictus (Post 71097781)
Sounds about right to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd2210 (Post 71099073)
I agree with this.

Ok this is getting weird.

BobbyClarkeFan16 09-14-2013 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers (Post 71097095)
Yeah I agree. Right or wrong, a lot of the Selke votes go to guys who will put up good numbers as well. Couturier scoring in the 30-40 point range likely won't crack the top three when guys like Toews, Bergeron, and Datsyuk are out there putting up those same numbers or better. That's my take anyway.

In fairness though, Bergeron, Toews and Datsyuk also play in top six roles and with considerably better linemates than Couturier.

As for Couturier, I don't think it's out of reach to expect a 20 goal, 40 to 45 point season out of him. I also think that when all is said and done, it won't surprise me if Vinny gets moved to the Giroux - Voracek line, Couturier becomes the number 2 center and Laughton slides into the 3rd line center spot at some point during the season.

sa cyred 09-14-2013 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers (Post 71099491)
Ok this is getting weird.

I was about to agree with you also.

Don't know what the worlds coming to. :sarcasm:

Beef Invictus 09-14-2013 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers (Post 71099491)
Ok this is getting weird.

I disagree.

flyersfan28 09-14-2013 02:28 PM

couturier 45points
schenn 55points
if laughton play how manny point he score?for me 30points

DrinkFightFlyers 09-14-2013 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beef Invictus (Post 71101283)
I disagree.

That's better.

dingbathero 09-14-2013 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 (Post 71100229)
In fairness though, Bergeron, Toews and Datsyuk also play in top six roles and with considerably better linemates than Couturier.

As for Couturier, I don't think it's out of reach to expect a 20 goal, 40 to 45 point season out of him. I also think that when all is said and done, it won't surprise me if Vinny gets moved to the Giroux - Voracek line, Couturier becomes the number 2 center and Laughton slides into the 3rd line center spot at some point during the season.

much like coots and schenn playing in the ahl together. didn't they play well too?

Embiid 10-17-2013 11:30 AM

Schenn, Couturier remain building blocks
 
Patience Flyers...patience!

Quote:

In identifying all the problems piling up for the reeling Philadelphia Flyers, the dramatic trades that sent Jeff Carter and Mike Richards away are getting lumped in with other mistakes made by management.

And the optics of those deals aren't good right now. Carter and Richards have gone on to win a Stanley Cup with the Kings, and are a big reason Los Angeles is expected to contend for another championship this season.

But one NHL scout, after recently watching two of the biggest pieces GM Paul Holmgren got back in those deals, warned against forming judgment too soon.

"It's still really early to evaluate," he said.

As Flyers fans look for any sign of good news in the midst of the Philadelphia free fall during a season that was supposed to include a return to the playoffs, they can take solace in the notion that people around the league continue to see progress in both Brayden Schenn and Sean Couturier.

"I'm a fan of both of them," said one NHL team executive. "The question on both of them really at the end of the day is how much offense is either one going to produce?"

http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/blog/...sean-couturier

tuckrr 10-17-2013 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt (Post 72757041)
Patience Flyers...patience!

agreed!

Its not that cooter/schenn can't score, the TEAM can't score right now :rant:

Schenn has quietly been one of our best forecheckers/energy guys and is very skill w/ the puck

Cooter is doing all of the right things, but is still too young. I see him get knocked down about 3 times a game, but that means he's pushing his limits. Those limits will get much more impressive as he bulks up, he's only 20 and he's 6'4 ...ever heard of the saying big guys are late bloomers? It's 100% true, especially when you play a physical game!

FlyersFanz 10-17-2013 02:00 PM

Right now the scale tips to Schenn. Schenn has scored goals, while Couts just looks out of place every game. I know that Couts is only 20yrs old but where is the grace and scoring touch he had 2 yrs ago? Schenn looks like he fits right in with Lecavalier on that 2nd line and when Vinny gets back I can see Schenn scoring a lot more goals.

BillDineen 10-17-2013 02:00 PM

Couts is a bit too much of a perimeter player for me. Likely only because he is concerned or arguably overly concerned about the defensive end. Schenn is stilll too slow with the puck on his stick, but has tremendous offensive instincts IMO. Both are longer term solutions rather than problems IMO.

Hiesenberg 10-17-2013 02:12 PM

I've seen promise with Couturier. His defensive prowess is back, which is great. Offense will come in time. Hopefully Raffl can bump Talbot down to the 4th when Vinny comes back.

Raffl/Couturier/Read I think can do some work.

blinds 10-17-2013 02:20 PM

I don't see the same thing that everyone who has been down on Couts this season is seeing. I think he's been fantastic in his role and his 2 assists is as much of a contribution as anyone is making. He lacks confidence in the offensive zone, but that will come with age and opportunity.

...And getting Talbot the hell off his line. Can't count the number of times he's been late to a rush, turns the puck over, positions himself wrong, or just anything to **** up the play. Guy can't hang on the 3rd line.

Beef Invictus 10-17-2013 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blinds (Post 72764495)
I don't see the same thing that everyone who has been down on Couts this season is seeing. I think he's been fantastic in his role and his 2 assists is as much of a contribution as anyone is making. He lacks confidence in the offensive zone, but that will come with age and opportunity.

...And getting Talbot the hell off his line. Can't count the number of times he's been late to a rush, turns the puck over, positions himself wrong, or just anything to **** up the play. Guy can't hang on the 3rd line.

Same here. I see his line constantly keeping the puck in the offensive zone, with Couturier being a driving factor in that, despite Talbot making it essentially a two man line.

FlyersFanz 10-17-2013 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blinds (Post 72764495)
I don't see the same thing that everyone who has been down on Couts this season is seeing. I think he's been fantastic in his role and his 2 assists is as much of a contribution as anyone is making. He lacks confidence in the offensive zone, but that will come with age and opportunity.

...And getting Talbot the hell off his line. Can't count the number of times he's been late to a rush, turns the puck over, positions himself wrong, or just anything to **** up the play. Guy can't hang on the 3rd line.

I love the guy but like I said he looks out of position on the ice and doesn't seem able to score. Couts, Schenn and Simmer really stepped up a while back when the Flyers were in the playoffs and I would really like to see that again, I do see it in Schenn but not in Couts. Simmer is a whole other story and thread.


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