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-   -   Bergevin needs to reinfornce the defense a.s.a.p. (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1500703)

WestIslander 09-20-2013 08:11 AM

Bergevin needs to reinfornce the defense a.s.a.p.
 
I am looking at the defense and the fact that Murray, Emelin, Bouillon and Drewiske are all injured now, Bergevin needs to add to this defense core a.s.a.p. and not with another 6th or 7th defenseman, we need a top 4 defenseman or else there is no way we are going to be better than Detroit, Ottawa or Boston this season and make the playoffs.

I would like to see Montreal go after Ryan Whitney, I think he's the type of defenseman we need, he had bad luck in Edmonton and his confidence went down when they pulled the "A" from his jersey, but he's still a good defenseman.

Any thoughts?

Zathronas 09-20-2013 08:20 AM

no need,

of the players you named only Emelin is a top 4. As for the rest Bouillon and Murray are day to day. Drewiske is easily replaceable by Tinordi or Pateryn.

I still think our D is suspect but not because of injuries.

Dr Gonzo 09-20-2013 08:26 AM

My thoughts are he's not a very good d-man.

In fact, Whitney is a pretty poor d-man. A #7 on the Blues, at best. So basically you don't want a #7, but you want a #7. ;)

I think it's a case of "the grass is always greener".

Lafleurs Guy 09-20-2013 08:28 AM

We definitely need a big shutdown guy. No doubt about it.

Whitney is not the answer though. And the problem is that by adding Birere we've kind of eaten up a lot of the cap space we had to do this. I don't see this problem being fixed anytime soon unfortunately. We're going in with what we've got. Our goalies are on their own.

GeorgeLebay 09-20-2013 08:29 AM

Hal Gill ? :sarcasm:

Craig71 09-20-2013 08:31 AM

Every great team is great defensively and we don't have a great defense.

Tuggy 09-20-2013 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy (Post 71329565)
We definitely need a big shutdown guy. No doubt about it.

Whitney is not the answer though. And the problem is that by adding Birere we've kind of eaten up a lot of the cap space we had to do this. I don't see this problem being fixed anytime soon unfortunately. We're going in with what we've got. Our goalies are on their own.

Definitely agree. This team is in desperate need of a big defensive defenseman that can play in the top 4. Tinordi will get there soon but he's not there yet IMO.

WhiskeySeven 09-20-2013 08:33 AM

He had all summer and didn't. He chose to extend Bouillon and Drewiskie needlessly and patch it up with Murray.

He made his bed, now we lie in it.

But keep defending this clown, "it's only been a year! Give him time!"

shutehinside 09-20-2013 08:35 AM

I think we're actually pretty good on defense. We have depth, size, mobility and offense for the first time in a long time.

Between PK, Markov, Gorges, Murray, Tinordi, Diaz, Bou, Beaulieu, Dietz, Pateryn and when Emelin gets back, what more do we need? Even with the injuries, we have a pretty good top 6 and when we start getting players back there's going to be a glut on D.

Markov Diaz
Gorges PK
Murray Tinordi
Bou Drew
Beaulieu Dietz
Pateryn

ZARTONK 09-20-2013 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zathronas (Post 71329417)
no need,

of the players you named only Emelin is a top 4. As for the rest Bouillon and Murray are day to day. Drewiske is easily replaceable by Tinordi or Pateryn.

I still think our D is suspect but not because of injuries.

I agree with this. Obviously we need a big shutdown guy, but that's another issue. MB won't be able to find one quickly.

hogtownhabsfan* 09-20-2013 08:42 AM

I'm not too worried about our D. Subban and Markov should be very good once again, Gorges should rebound, an Emelin will be back by the playoffs. Throw in Murray, Boullion, and developing players like Diaz, Tinordi, and Bealiaeu, and I think we're in good shape.

Ghetto Sangria 09-20-2013 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy (Post 71329565)
We definitely need a big shutdown guy. No doubt about it.

Whitney is not the answer though. And the problem is that by adding Birere we've kind of eaten up a lot of the cap space we had to do this. I don't see this problem being fixed anytime soon unfortunately. We're going in with what we've got. Our goalies are on their own.

who was this top 4 shutdown defenseman with size that the habs were supposed to sign this off season?

I don't like the Briere signing, but it's not as if that signing limited the habs to getting what they need. There was no one out there this off season (besides a bottom pairing big guy like murray). The only way Bergy could acquire a top 4 d would be through a trade, where salary would be replaced, not added.

Zathronas 09-20-2013 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven (Post 71329641)
He had all summer and didn't. He chose to extend Bouillon and Drewiskie needlessly and patch it up with Murray.

He made his bed, now we lie in it.

But keep defending this clown, "it's only been a year! Give him time!"

Fair enough, so tell me who should he have gotten and how much should he had paid for him?

Bergevin clearly wants to build from within and I think Pateryn and Tinordi will become great shutdown D's within a year or two. So he wouldn't sign anything more than 2 years.

Fan wants action but sometimes inaction is best. But with you guys he's damned if he did and damned if he don't.

Next year we have Markov, Diaz, Emelin, Murray and Bouillon UFA's. you think that's unintentional? at that point Pateryn and Tinordi will be in the lineup, Subban will be resigned probably Emelin too. That will leave 2 spots to fill, maybe Markov or if Beaulieu is ready he'll replace him and another preferably a right handed D.

Does that look like a plan to you?

Captain Smurf 09-20-2013 08:47 AM

Healthy D-core: "No room for Tinordi!"

Hurt D-Core: "We need more D-men!"

Our D-core is fine. even with the guys missing, I'd take it over any other in the Division, except Boston and Ottawa. Murray and Cube are not out long term and we have very good Defensive depth for just this reason. Drew is not a key piece and its not cheap to replace a Emelin, unless you want to move guys like Eller, Gallagher, Tinordi, McCarron and/or Beaulieu. Its not easy to "fix the D-core". Who was he supposed to get? Fistric? Hainsey? I'll say that I would have preferred either to Murray, but they aren't answers either. Bergevin did not have a great summer, but that has more to do with who he brought in, not who he didn't.

Let Tinordi and Pateryn fight for a spot. If you don't have faith in Bergy, have faith in the guys in the system, they may surprise you.

Monctonscout 09-20-2013 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestIslander (Post 71329277)
I am looking at the defense and the fact that Murray, Emelin, Bouillon and Drewiske are all injured now, Bergevin needs to add to this defense core a.s.a.p. and not with another 6th or 7th defenseman, we need a top 4 defenseman or else there is no way we are going to be better than Detroit, Ottawa or Boston this season and make the playoffs.

I would like to see Montreal go after Ryan Whitney, I think he's the type of defenseman we need, he had bad luck in Edmonton and his confidence went down when they pulled the "A" from his jersey, but he's still a good defenseman.

Any thoughts?

Drewiske is the #7 guy and will only miss about 5-6 games so it's not a big deal. Bouillon and Murray are day to day so they should not even be in the discussion.

Emelin is definitely a big loss, missing about 2 months, but unless you're ready to move a McCarron or another top young player, any solution coming in would be no better than guys like Murray-Bouillon-Tinordi.

The defense is not great, but skillwise it's up there with anybody in the NHL, it's not the biggest or baddest but neither was Chicago. If you control the puck 60% of the time it takes a lot of pressure off your d-men and you don't need a bunch of behemoths back there. You can have smart guys that use their hockey sense and instincts to break up plays and get the puck up ice. I think Murray will help a lot on PK and in matchups against big guys that love to park themselves in front, he'll make it not a whole lot of fun. Look at Lucic diring last weekend's game, didn't seem too enthusiastic about mixing it up with Murray.

Goldthorpe 09-20-2013 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez (Post 71329859)
who was this top 4 shutdown defenseman with size that the habs were supposed to sign this off season?

You don't understand - nobody cares if there was an available option or not. It was the job of MB to find a magic solution and if he couldn't then obviously it's because he sucks and must be replaced. That's how all GM in the last decades have been evaluated around here. Not going to change today. Welcome to entitlement land.

sharks9 09-20-2013 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan (Post 71329819)
I'm not too worried about our D. Subban and Markov should be very good once again, Gorges should rebound, an Emelin will be back by the playoffs. Throw in Murray, Boullion, and developing players like Diaz, Tinordi, and Bealiaeu, and I think we're in good shape.

I agree with this. Hopefully Tinordi will become the big, shutdown guy we need and we wont have to give up any assets for one.

As for the injuries, Bouillon and Murray are both only day-to-day and might be ready for opening day, or sometime in the first week of the season.

LePoche69 09-20-2013 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zathronas (Post 71329417)
no need,

of the players you named only Emelin is a top 4. As for the rest Bouillon and Murray are day to day. Drewiske is easily replaceable by Tinordi or Pateryn.

I still think our D is suspect but not because of injuries.

I agree with that.

And personnaly, I don't think Habs need a big shut down. I think they need a true #2 d-man who could play in any situation against any opposition. Markov isn't that d-man anymore (while I still like what he brings to the team). I'm thinking of a d-man who will be for Subban what Seabrook is for Keith.

Unfortunatly, I don't think there's one on the market except if Bergevin is ready to give someone like Gallagher in return, and I'm sure he won't. And there is no such d-man UFA.

Lafleurs Guy 09-20-2013 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez (Post 71329859)
who was this top 4 shutdown defenseman with size that the habs were supposed to sign this off season?

I don't like the Briere signing, but it's not as if that signing limited the habs to getting what they need. There was no one out there this off season (besides a bottom pairing big guy like murray). The only way Bergy could acquire a top 4 d would be through a trade, where salary would be replaced, not added.

Trade for one. **** free agency.

Estimated_Prophet 09-20-2013 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldthorpe (Post 71329973)
You don't understand - nobody cares if there was an available option or not. It was the job of MB to find a magic solution and if he couldn't then obviously it's because he sucks and must be replaced. That's how all GM in the last decades have been evaluated around here. Not going to change today. Welcome to entitlement land.

:handclap: Love this post!

Crimson Skorpion 09-20-2013 08:59 AM

- Bouillon and Murray are day-to-day, nothing serious.
- Drewiske will be ready within 2-3 weeks after the season has started.
- Tinordi can fill in.
- So can Pateryn, albeit on more of a part-time basis.

No need to panic.

WhiskeySeven 09-20-2013 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldthorpe (Post 71329973)
You don't understand - nobody cares if there was an available option or not. It was the job of MB to find a magic solution and if he couldn't then obviously it's because he sucks and must be replaced. That's how all GM in the last decades have been evaluated around here. Not going to change today. Welcome to entitlement land.

The whole point of being a GM is to be proactive and find solutions even when they seem difficult.

Nabbing Diaz and Emelin, two immediate NHLers, in one offseason was a stroke of genius - but hardly anybody cared because Gauthier was vegan and referred to everyone as mister.

Bergevin's idea of proactive was to sign and extend Bouillon and trade for and extend Drewiskie - two borderline NHLers - and sign Murray in August. But he wears nice suits and at least he's not that awful LAST GM we had!! Give Bergevin some time!!!

This fanbase has Stockholm Syndrome. Most expensive tickets but continuously and incessantly served the sloppiest management and coaching. Just once it would be nice to have actual visionaries at the helm instead of racist jerkwads who'd rather sign a broken down smurf than look at other options.

Monctonscout 09-20-2013 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy (Post 71329565)
We definitely need a big shutdown guy. No doubt about it.

Whitney is not the answer though. And the problem is that by adding Birere we've kind of eaten up a lot of the cap space we had to do this. I don't see this problem being fixed anytime soon unfortunately. We're going in with what we've got. Our goalies are on their own.

Isn't that the point of having Emelin and developing Tinordi?

Plus a guy like Pateryn is also close and in that mold as is Gorges.

Estimated_Prophet 09-20-2013 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven (Post 71330269)
The whole point of being a GM is to be proactive and find solutions even when they seem difficult.

Nabbing Diaz and Emelin, two immediate NHLers, in one offseason was a stroke of genius - but hardly anybody cared because Gauthier was vegan and referred to everyone as mister.

Bergevin's idea of proactive was to sign and extend Bouillon and trade for and extend Drewiskie - two borderline NHLers - and sign Murray in August. But he wears nice suits and at least he's not that awful LAST GM we had!! Give Bergevin some time!!!

This fanbase has Stockholm Syndrome. Most expensive tickets but continuously and incessantly served the sloppiest management and coaching. Just once it would be nice to have actual visionaries at the helm instead of racist jerkwads who'd rather sign a broken down smurf than look at other options.

Gauthier was a terrible GM and this comment clearly displays your lack of knowledge and credibility on the topic.

LePoche69 09-20-2013 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven (Post 71330269)
The whole point of being a GM is to be proactive and find solutions even when they seem difficult.

Nabbing Diaz and Emelin, two immediate NHLers, in one offseason was a stroke of genius - but hardly anybody cared because Gauthier was vegan and referred to everyone as mister.

Bergevin's idea of proactive was to sign and extend Bouillon and trade for and extend Drewiskie - two borderline NHLers - and sign Murray in August. But he wears nice suits and at least he's not that awful LAST GM we had!! Give Bergevin some time!!!

This fanbase has Stockholm Syndrome. Most expensive tickets but continuously and incessantly served the sloppiest management and coaching. Just once it would be nice to have actual visionaries at the helm instead of racist jerkwads who'd rather sign a broken down smurf than look at other options.

I'm not as agressive or harsh as you are, but I kinda agree with you up to a point.

I'm ready to give another full year to Bergevin (season and offseason), but to me, the honeymoon is over and he must starts answering for his moves and non-moves.

Like I wrote higher, Habs need a true #2 d-man in the Seabrook mold, and nothing like it is developping in Hamilton, and there's none in the UFA market. So it's maybe time for Bergevin to let go a beloved youngster to trade for such a valuable asset. I'm not saying it's easy, but at one point, a GM has to make a bold move that fix what needs to be fixed. And I believe that "point" will be reached whithing the next 12 months.


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