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ToMaLe 07-10-2005 12:43 PM

How Would You Do The Draft?
 
Not sure how the draft will be decided. probably some kind of a weighted system. Since we obviously cant go by last years stats how about this format. All teams that won the cup in the last 5 years gets 1 ball and every five year segment before that gets 1 more ball with a maximun of 5. So in other words:

1 ball = Tampa Bay, New Jersy, Detroit and Colorado
2 balls = Dallas
3 balls = New York Rangers, Montreal, Pittsburg and Edmonton
4 balls = Calgary
5 balls = All other teams

albathegreat* 07-10-2005 12:47 PM

Personally I would do it with 30 balls, give every team 1/30 chances for the number 1 pick.

NO one team gets an advantage over another because they cant spend their money right and not make the playoffs, or just havent made them in the last few years.

ToMaLe 07-10-2005 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almothegreat
Personally I would do it with 30 balls, give every team 1/30 chances for the number 1 pick.

NO one team gets an advantage over another because they cant spend their money right and not make the playoffs, or just havent made them in the last few years.

Well i dont think Tampa should get the same chance of getting the first over all after just winning the cup. There has got to be some kind of weighted system. As for teams that cant spend their money right, isnt that how the teams get rewarded every year since the draft was started, to get a crack at first overall?

Twist and Shout 07-10-2005 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almothegreat
Personally I would do it with 30 balls, give every team 1/30 chances for the number 1 pick.

I agree. A season wasn't played - therefore everyone should have an equal chance of getting a high pick. Either that or have a draft for the 2005 and 2006 eligible prospects after the conclusion of the 2005-2006 season.

ToMaLe 07-10-2005 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sevenSteen
I agree. A season wasn't played - therefore everyone should have an equal chance of getting a high pick. Either that or have a draft for the 2005 and 2006 eligible prospects after the conclusion of the 2005-2006 season.

I wouldnt mind seeing the draft after the 05-06 season but would still love to see a draft this year. An even keel draft is not the way to go in my opinion. Im sure you wouldnt like to see Tampa getting first overall after winning the cup no more then i would. But with this weighted system at least they have a chance at getting it althou slim, the way it should be. But like i said thats just my opinion.

albathegreat* 07-10-2005 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToMaLe
Well i dont think Tampa should get the same chance of getting the first over all after just winning the cup. There has got to be some kind of weighted system. As for teams that cant spend their money right, isnt that how the teams get rewarded every year since the draft was started, to get a crack at first overall?

But there was no Cup winner last year, Each team begins the season with an "equal" chance of winning the cup.

30 balls, 1-30 chance

Who knows what teams will look like before the season begins, each team will be dramitically different from when Tampa Bay won the Cup.

think-blue- 07-10-2005 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToMaLe
I wouldnt mind seeing the draft after the 05-06 season but would still love to see a draft this year. An even keel draft is not the way to go in my opinion. Im sure you wouldnt like to see Tampa getting first overall after winning the cup no more then i would. But with this weighted system at least they have a chance at getting it althou slim, the way it should be. But like i said thats just my opinion.

But your weighted system gives the Leafs a higher chance at #1 than Pittsburgh or NYR, two of the bottom feeders in the league the past few years...you could argue that the past few seasons have little relevance on the draft order this year, so saying that the Pens or Rangers winning the cup a long time ago plays into the order...dont expect that to be well received.

ToMaLe 07-10-2005 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almothegreat
But there was no Cup winner last year, Each team begins the season with an "equal" chance of winning the cup.

30 balls, 1-30 chance

Who knows what teams will look like before the season begins, each team will be dramitically different from when Tampa Bay won the Cup.

Thanks for your opinion Almo...wish i knew how to get a poll going to include different ways of doing the draft, say about 5 different options, including 1-30 chance. would be interesting. TSN was saying some kind of minor weighted system could be implemented, not sure how.

albathegreat* 07-10-2005 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToMaLe
Thanks for your opinion Almo...wish i knew how to get a poll going to include different ways of doing the draft, say about 5 different options, including 1-30 chance. would be interesting. TSN was saying some kind of minor weighted system could be implemented, not sure how.

Poll would probably be a good idea :handclap:

Mess 07-10-2005 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToMaLe
Thanks for your opinion Almo...wish i knew how to get a poll going to include different ways of doing the draft, say about 5 different options, including 1-30 chance. would be interesting. TSN was saying some kind of minor weighted system could be implemented, not sure how.

I can already tell you what the results will be though ..

Big Market teams fans that have had playoff runs in the past few years would vote for 1 in 30 and small market teams or teams with poor records that have forced them to miss the playoffs would vote for heavily favoured, with the moderates falling in the middle somewhere.

ChrisKreider20 07-10-2005 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almothegreat
But there was no Cup winner last year, Each team begins the season with an "equal" chance of winning the cup.

30 balls, 1-30 chance

Who knows what teams will look like before the season begins, each team will be dramitically different from when Tampa Bay won the Cup.

but is it fair that teams that have 5-6 stars on their team have a better shot then teams with 1. I mean say what ever you want but there is no way teams like Detroit, Colorado, Toronto, Phili should have a better shot than teams like Minnesota and Pittsburgh. We all want our fav team to get Crosby, so naturally I want the Lotto to favour NY and you guys would want it to favour TO (the first suggestion by taking cup history from over a decade ago) But the real fair way would be to find a way of actually separating the worst from the best and that would be likely the best way to conduct the lottery. In my opinion I don't think teams like colorado even deserve a ball because in all honesty, do you think they would miss the playoffs... same goes for other powerhouse teams. If you disagree state why.

ToMaLe 07-10-2005 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by think/blue
But your weighted system gives the Leafs a higher chance at #1 than Pittsburgh or NYR, two of the bottom feeders in the league the past few years...you could argue that the past few seasons have little relevance on the draft order this year, so saying that the Pens or Rangers winning the cup a long time ago plays into the order...dont expect that to be well received.

Well getting 3 balls is still pretty good imo. and yes you can argue the past few seasons have little relevance, you can argue many things bout how it should be done, they are all valid arguments. you will never get everyone agreeing on one way to do it. i dont think 1-30 is the way to go, but thats my opinion, im just going by a weighted system from the past history as there was no season last year. some want a weighted system some dont. time will tell i guess

ToMaLe 07-10-2005 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger
I can already tell you what the results will be though ..

Big Market teams fans that have had playoff runs in the past few years would vote for 1 in 30 and small market teams or teams with poor records that have forced them to miss the playoffs would vote for heavily favoured, with the moderates falling in the middle somewhere.

Well my Leafs are a big market team that had playoff runs the past few years and i am against the 1-30, but im sure people will try to find ways to favor their teams no doubt.

Leaf Army 07-10-2005 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rancid
but is it fair that teams that have 5-6 stars on their team have a better shot then teams with 1. I mean say what ever you want but there is no way teams like Detroit, Colorado, Toronto, Phili should have a better shot than teams like Minnesota and Pittsburgh. We all want our fav team to get Crosby, so naturally I want the Lotto to favour NY and you guys would want it to favour TO (the first suggestion by taking cup history from over a decade ago) But the real fair way would be to find a way of actually separating the worst from the best and that would be likely the best way to conduct the lottery. In my opinion I don't think teams like colorado even deserve a ball because in all honesty, do you think they would miss the playoffs... same goes for other powerhouse teams. If you disagree state why.

Simple because teams that sucked already have recieved their rewards for sucking. Ie Washington already got Ovechkin.

Basing a lottery on what happened in the past is faulty because there's no guarantee that's how last season would have played out.

For example, let's pretend the lockout wiped out the 03-04 season instead.

In 02-03, San Jose and Calgary had among the worst records in the league. They were then "rewarded" with Milan Michalek and Dion Phaneuf respectively. In 03-04, both teams then had successful seasons and both made the Conference Finals.

But if that 03-04 season hadn't of been played, you can be sure that people would have been saying San Jose and Calgary should have high draft picks again. Why though? So they can be rewarded twice for one bad season?

Or reverse the situation. In 02-03, Anaheim and Washington had 95 and 92 points respectively and obviously had a big drop off in 03-04.

We don't know how this season would have played out so an even chance for everyone is only fair. Assuming that the standings would have remained the same is obviously not based on logical thinking.

And I'm not saying this just because I want the Leafs to have a shot at Crosby. The fact is a 30 ball lottery would worry me. Teams like Philly and Ottawa would have just as good of a chance at the number one pick and that isn't exactly a comforting thought.

think-blue- 07-10-2005 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToMaLe
Well getting 3 balls is still pretty good imo. and yes you can argue the past few seasons have little relevance, you can argue many things bout how it should be done, they are all valid arguments. you will never get everyone agreeing on one way to do it. i dont think 1-30 is the way to go, but thats my opinion, im just going by a weighted system from the past history as there was no season last year. some want a weighted system some dont. time will tell i guess

If youre going to weight it, do it based on past few seasons with the amount of balls being determined on things like # of playoff appearances, # of cup wins in this time period, # of #1 picks overall, etc... not cup wins going back to Calgary. Otherwise, why stop at Calgary? Leafs won the cup in 1967, so maybe they should have less of a shot than a team that hasnt won the cup at all..

albathegreat* 07-10-2005 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rancid
but is it fair that teams that have 5-6 stars on their team have a better shot then teams with 1. I mean say what ever you want but there is no way teams like Detroit, Colorado, Toronto, Phili should have a better shot than teams like Minnesota and Pittsburgh. We all want our fav team to get Crosby, so naturally I want the Lotto to favour NY and you guys would want it to favour TO (the first suggestion by taking cup history from over a decade ago) But the real fair way would be to find a way of actually separating the worst from the best and that would be likely the best way to conduct the lottery. In my opinion I don't think teams like colorado even deserve a ball because in all honesty, do you think they would miss the playoffs... same goes for other powerhouse teams. If you disagree state why.

Why shouldnt a team like Toronto or Philly get an equal chance for the 1st round pick then Minnesota? Last time I check Minny had a very strong chance of making it to the cup in 03, and just missed out of a playoff spot in 04 due to a horrible start. Its the NHL anything can happens I will stress this again any team has an equal chance of winning.

30 balls/ 1-30

mydnyte 07-11-2005 08:28 AM

Rumor: That 'Mock Draft Lottery' wherein the Leafs won the first pick was actually the real draft order lottery ...and the Leafs do really have the first overall pick in the upcoming TBA draft!

...okay, i just made up the Rumor myself, but Rumors need to get started someplace, somehow. ;)

ULF_55 07-11-2005 08:55 AM

It should be based on a whole bunch of things.

# of players under contract
# of players a team owns
# of Cups won over the past 35 years
# of fans that support the team
# of lottery picks the team has had
prospect rankings
total # of hits their team board takes at HF's
total amount of revenue the team has generated over the last decade

based on this:

Leafs 29 balls
29 teams get to split the last ball


One team one ball.

There is very little relationship between the teams going forward and the teams that last played.

Remember this lock-out is about making the playing ground level. Making it fair, for everyone. How does giving more rights to one club make it fair?

Mess 07-11-2005 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULF_55
It should be based on a whole bunch of things.

# of players under contract
# of players a team owns
# of Cups won over the past 35 years
# of fans that support the team
# of lottery picks the team has had
prospect rankings
total # of hits their team board takes at HF's
total amount of revenue the team has generated over the last decade

based on this:

Leafs 29 balls
29 teams get to split the last ball


One team one ball.

There is very little relationship between the teams going forward and the teams that last played.

Remember this lock-out is about making the playing ground level. Making it fair, for everyone. How does giving more rights to one club make it fair?

Sorry but I don't like are chances under this system :)

All kidding aside .. When the actual draft happens weighted or not ..I have a strong feeling Leafs will be picking in the 25-30 range regardless.. Which then is even further tough to swollow in that its suppose to be a snake draft so the NYR will then get our 2nd rounder in the 31-36 range ..

ChrisKreider20 07-11-2005 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaf Army
Simple because teams that sucked already have recieved their rewards for sucking. Ie Washington already got Ovechkin.

Basing a lottery on what happened in the past is faulty because there's no guarantee that's how last season would have played out.

For example, let's pretend the lockout wiped out the 03-04 season instead.

In 02-03, San Jose and Calgary had among the worst records in the league. They were then "rewarded" with Milan Michalek and Dion Phaneuf respectively. In 03-04, both teams then had successful seasons and both made the Conference Finals.

But if that 03-04 season hadn't of been played, you can be sure that people would have been saying San Jose and Calgary should have high draft picks again. Why though? So they can be rewarded twice for one bad season?

Or reverse the situation. In 02-03, Anaheim and Washington had 95 and 92 points respectively and obviously had a big drop off in 03-04.

We don't know how this season would have played out so an even chance for everyone is only fair. Assuming that the standings would have remained the same is obviously not based on logical thinking.

And I'm not saying this just because I want the Leafs to have a shot at Crosby. The fact is a 30 ball lottery would worry me. Teams like Philly and Ottawa would have just as good of a chance at the number one pick and that isn't exactly a comforting thought.

There are some exceptions but generally these 5 teams have made the playoffs consistantly since 2000 with their star-studded teams- Colorado, Detroit, Philadelphia, Toronto, Ottawa. The bottom have consistantly been Pittsburgh, Florida, Columbus, Atlanta, New York and Chicago. Can you honestly say that 2004/2005 would have been any different. The only team here that I could have seen changing is Florida but still not likely. A somewhat fairway would be meshing the 2000-2005 standings and maybe to make things even more fair add the final payrolls at the end of the 2003/2004 season. Then hold a lottery. And because of the factor that there wasn't actually a season, the lottery should be slightly favoured with a 6% chance going to the worst and about 1% chance going to the strongest. Just my opinion...

mydnyte 07-11-2005 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rancid
There are some exceptions but generally these 5 teams have made the playoffs consistantly since 2000 with their star-studded teams- Colorado, Detroit, Philadelphia, Toronto, Ottawa. The bottom have consistantly been Pittsburgh, Florida, Columbus, Atlanta, New York and Chicago. Can you honestly say that 2004/2005 would have been any different. The only team here that I could have seen changing is Florida but still not likely. A somewhat fairway would be meshing the 2000-2005 standings and maybe to make things even more fair add the final payrolls at the end of the 2003/2004 season. Then hold a lottery. And because of the factor that there wasn't actually a season, the lottery should be slightly favoured with a 6% chance going to the worst and about 1% chance going to the strongest. Just my opinion...

think of the Atlanta Braves in baseball ...they went from worst to first in one season after finishing near the bottom for a few years ...there is no reason to doubt that Atlanta, or NYR, or Pitt, or Was couldnt do the same, it takes a short while for top players to develop and turn a team around ...think of Colorodo, and Ottawa.

ULF_55 07-11-2005 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rancid
The bottom have consistantly been Pittsburgh, Florida, Columbus, Atlanta, New York and Chicago. Can you honestly say that 2004/2005 would have been any different.

And because of the factor that there wasn't actually a season, the lottery should be slightly favoured with a 6% chance going to the worst and about 1% chance going to the strongest. Just my opinion...


League has already said no grandfathering, only grandmothering, and so you can't grandfather sucking teams records into the now.

One team, one vote, one ball.

berney fkaj 07-14-2005 01:35 PM

New cba, new league, new rules, the whole intent for the new cba is fairness.....so i think 30 teams....30 balls.

ULF_55 07-15-2005 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berney fkaj
New cba, new league, new rules, the whole intent for the new cba is fairness.....so i think 30 teams....30 balls.

So much for fairness ... Bettman is already corrupting the draft. But what would you expect from these guys.


http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/shown...ntent=h071431A

The draft lottery is slated to be held behind closed doors during next week's board of governors' meeting in New York, which is tentatively scheduled for Thursday. Commissioner Gary Bettman would then announce the draft lottery results at his ensuing news conference, which will also be used to outline new rule changes and general "re-launch" the game.

Chandler55 07-15-2005 12:35 AM

It shall be a secret auction, where each team makes a bid and the draft order is from biggest bid to lowest.

(the price is right strategy comes into effect, bid 15000001 dollars not 1500000!)


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