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-   -   Now what? Where do we go from here? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=150814)

ATLANTARANGER* 07-13-2005 12:31 PM

Now what? Where do we go from here?
 
With the CBA about done, what do we as NYR fans want our team roster to be composed of?
2 scenarios, one with Crosby, the other without.
If we get Crosby, do we continue with the rebuild? Does Sather go with Rookies, with a sprinkling of vets? Or, does he build immediately because of Crosby? Do we rid salary, i.e. Holik, Kasper?


If no Crosby, what direction do you want us to take regarding the rebuild, draft UFA's? Do we play a rookie laiden squad?

IMO, whether we get Crosby or not, we continue along and play some kids, gaining experience, while signing a few, limited number of veteran character players to fill in roles as mentors and leaders until the young guys can take over in a couple of years. I resign Weekes, give Labarbera a decent shot at showing us what he has to offer. I have Tjutin, Kondratiev, Lampman, on defense along with Kasparaitis and maybe Mironov. See if Pock can cut it and qualify Poti and see if he has some value. Somewhere along the season I trade both Holik and Kasper for young players and or picks (even if we have to pay part of their salary).

PLAYER SALARY CLASS
BALEJ $450,000.00* RFA
D. MOORE $450,000.00* RFA
HOLIK $6,730,000.00 SIGNED
JAGR $4,180,000.00 SIGNED
KASPARAITIS $3,340,000.00 SIGNED
KONDRATIEV $890,000.00* RFA
LABARBERA $450,000.00* RFA
LAMPMAN $450,000.00* SIGNED
LUNDMARK $860,000.00* RFA
MARSHALL $460,000.00* UFA
NYLANDER $2,280,000.00 SIGNED
POCK $890,000.00 SIGNED
POTI $2,360,000.00* RFA
RACHUNEK $1,140,000.00* RFA
STRUDWICK $490,000.00 SIGNED
TYUTIN $990,000.00* RFA
WEEKES $1,005,000.00* RFA
G. MURRAY $450,000.00* RFA
WISEMAN $450,000.00* RFA
GIROUX $450,000.00* RFA
ORTMEYER $610,000.00* RFA
CROSBY $850,000.00
$30,225,000.00

* = ESTIMATE based off of last salary
Potential lines
C RW LW D D
CROSBY JAGR LUNDMARK TYUTIN KONDRATIEV
HOLIK ORTMEYER MURRAY MARSHALL KASPARAITIS
NYLANDER BALEJ GIROUX RACHUNEK LAMPMAN
D. MOORE WISEMAN

Seeing things this way, it's possible to see the value in buying out a player like Kaspar, or even Nylander, or not qualifying Poti. In the new world, we could maybe sign 3 - 4 players for the same money, providing the organization with a possible up grade in talent and money saved under the cap.

Anthony Mauro 07-13-2005 12:48 PM

Holik needs to be bought out pronto if you're looking to deal him for prospects or picks. Holik at 6.7 mil which is .7 mil away from the max, won't or shouldn't get you anything.

I'd get veterans and younger players who are bought out, who will fit in the core of the team. All playoff and contending teams have a core that are consistently with team year in year out. Obviously, you shouldn't get guys who will shuffle or are outside pieces like Kovalev, Bure etc. who contribute nothing to the identity of the team. I'd say a team of 55-60 percent vets and 45-40 percent rookies, lol.

Edge 07-13-2005 12:53 PM

I think even with Crosby, this team has to build a team around him.

I'm just not convinced about the scoring ability of some these kids at an NHL level.

I think there are some players in the mix, but this team even with Crosby is going to need a lot more.

Melrose_Jr. 07-13-2005 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balej's Dance
Holik needs to be bought out pronto if you're looking to deal him for prospects or picks. Holik at 6.7 mil which is .7 mil away from the max, won't or shouldn't get you anything.

With ~$9Mil in hand based on ATL's estimates, do we really need another $6.7 under the cap? Holik will need to be a critical part of this team. Is he really willing to be?

I see a pressing need for an experienced LW, but other than that, we can basically ice a team that will, admittedly, lose a lot of games. You've got to get these young players on the ice and not look to weld them to the 4th line while big ticket UFA's gobble up ice time.

Shadowtron 07-13-2005 01:11 PM

I think you'll see a veteran/prospect balanced landscape. I think that our rookies will have a chance at making the roster out of camp, and competing for spots along with the vets. I wouldn't mind seeing Holik bought out. While I've enjoyed having him here, I just don't see him serving any other purpose than being a resource hog. If this team is truly committed to rebuilding, what can we really expect from him? We're not going anywhere for a couple more seasons, so why waste the cash and his twilight years floundering in Manhattan. Buy him out and let him go to a team where he can do some good. I know that the "you never know" rule applies, but I think we all know where the Rangers will be come next draft.
While Crosby would be nice, we're talking about Rangers here. However slanted our chances may be (be it 3 balls or 100)...THERE IS NO CHANCE ON EARTH THAT THAT KID PULLS ON A RANGERS SWEATER BEFORE HIS 28TH BIRTHDAY (you can write this down or print it and make me eat it if I'm wrong). What we really have to ask ourselves, and what is a more realistic Rangers scenario, is who will we be taking at 30th and 31st overall?

ATLANTARANGER* 07-13-2005 01:12 PM

I left out some of the euro's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
With ~$9Mil in hand based on ATL's estimates, do we really need another $6.7 under the cap? Holik will need to be a critical part of this team. Is he really willing to be?

I see a pressing need for an experienced LW, but other than that, we can basically ice a team that will, admittedly, lose a lot of games. You've got to get these young players on the ice and not look to weld them to the 4th line while big ticket UFA's gobble up ice time.

Like Immonen & Prucha. I truly worry that many will not come over. Sather has always looked to europe and we have a number of prospects that have the potential to be high end players who may decide that they can make a better living back home. The one ace in the hole is playing in the NHL. Some others are playing in NY and an original 6 team.

I see the need on the LW, but who? I know Jagr and Slats love Rucinsky, but is he really the best choice? I would like to see an investment in a younger winger.

ATLANTARANGER* 07-13-2005 01:15 PM

Actually it is around 3 chances out of 48.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowtron
I think you'll see a veteran/prospect balanced landscape. I think that our rookies will have a chance at making the roster out of camp, and competing for spots along with the vets. I wouldn't mind seeing Holik bought out. While I've enjoyed having him here, I just don't see him serving any other purpose than being a resource hog. If this team is truly committed to rebuilding, what can we really expect from him? We're not going anyway for a couple more seasons, so why waste the cash and his twilight years floundering in Manhattan. Buy him out and let him go to a team where he can do some good. I know that "you never know" applies, but I think we can expect to see the Rangers in next year's draft lottery.
While Crosby would be nice, we're talking about Rangers here. However slanted our chances may be (be 3 balls or 100)...THERE IS NO CHANCE ON EARTH THAT THAT KID PULLS ON A RANGERS SWEATER BEFORE HIS 28TH BIRTHDAY. What we really have to ask ourselves, and what is a more realistic Rangers scenario, is who will we be taking at 30th and 31st overall?

Rumors are going around that if you are a 7 year vet, or 28 (whatever the UFA age is) you get free agency. So players like Heatley & Kovachuk are free birds at 25. From what I am reading it is a either, or.

Shadowtron 07-13-2005 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER
Actually it is around 3 chances out of 48.

Technically. But historically, the Rangers are usually 50 cents short...if ya know what I mean.


Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER
Rumors are going around that if you are a 7 year vet, or 28 (whatever the UFA age is) you get free agency. So players like Heatley & Kovachuk are free birds at 25. From what I am reading it is a either, or.

That's what I'm hearing too. I was very happy to see they now grant Unrestricted Free Agency to players still in their prime.

Anthony Mauro 07-13-2005 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER
Like Immonen & Prucha. I truly worry that many will not come over. Sather has always looked to europe and we have a number of prospects that have the potential to be high end players who may decide that they can make a better living back home. The one ace in the hole is playing in the NHL. Some others are playing in NY and an original 6 team.

I see the need on the LW, but who? I know Jagr and Slats love Rucinsky, but is he really the best choice? I would like to see an investment in a younger winger.

I think Rucinsky would be the perfect type of addition to a team needing a vet LW'er. Unless a younger version of him gets bought out. Rucinsky, can skate, has some finish, hustled most of the time(which basically is all of the time compared to the desire of other stiffs on NYR), and he was quiet unlike flapper Holik.

ATLANTARANGER* 07-13-2005 02:07 PM

We need to find out where DeBushere's(sp) buried
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowtron
Technically. But historically, the Rangers are usually 50 cents short...if ya know what I mean.




That's what I'm hearing too. I was very happy to see they now grant Unrestricted Free Agency to players still in their prime.

and get a number of ranger fans to go there and hold a sťance there until after the draft is over. We have to pull out all the stops. get Ewing on skates with a crosby jersey on, anything and everything.

FLYLine24 07-13-2005 02:16 PM

Where do we go from here? We get on the horn to Europe and get Prucha and Immonen signed.

Edge 07-13-2005 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowtron
Technically. But historically, the Rangers are usually 50 cents short...if ya know what I mean.




That's what I'm hearing too. I was very happy to see they now grant Unrestricted Free Agency to players still in their prime.

Which scares me. Because 25-27 is when players hit their prime. So essentially you run the risk of developing a kid only to see him go somewhere else and win championships.

Mike18 07-13-2005 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
With ~$9Mil in hand based on ATL's estimates, do we really need another $6.7 under the cap? Holik will need to be a critical part of this team. Is he really willing to be?

I see a pressing need for an experienced LW, but other than that, we can basically ice a team that will, admittedly, lose a lot of games. You've got to get these young players on the ice and not look to weld them to the 4th line while big ticket UFA's gobble up ice time.

I think what Slats does with Holik will tell us a lot about the direction of the team.

If he gets bought out, that would only be because they're trying to shed his large contract to further distance themselves from the cap in an attempt to sign a few mediocre guys in his place.

If Holik stays, then we can expect to go largely with the youth that's already in the system. Holik's contract will only last another 2 seasons. By that time, the team should be ready to be more competitive on the ice. If Holik wants to stick around at a more reasonable price, great. Otherwise, eh. This is the option I'm hoping for. Actually, anything different and I'll be ready to jump on the anti-Sather bandwagon in an instant.

Levitate 07-13-2005 03:44 PM

Quote:

Which scares me. Because 25-27 is when players hit their prime. So essentially you run the risk of developing a kid only to see him go somewhere else and win championships.
which is why i've never been a fan of low FA age...

Jackson Ranger 07-13-2005 03:58 PM

Where do we go from here?

It's easy. The Rangers had the GAG Line (Goal A Game for all of you yutes) many years ago. I say we start the Regurgitation Line. Kamensky on the left side, Fleury on the right, centered by Lindros!

What the heck, they would come cheap, you know! :D

Edge 07-13-2005 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levitate
which is why i've never been a fan of low FA age...

Gotta admit that's the one thing that really bothers me. Yeah i can understand, but we've seen the impact on other sports. Top, young players leaving to go elsewhere.

At that point it might not even be a matter of money. If you were a star American player and you had a choice between say Calgary and Detroit, Chicago or even a nice location like Miami, which are you gonna pick?

While the players didn't like, the point of a higher age was so that a team wouldn't do like has been done in other sports. Have a smaller market draft, develop and invest in the kid and then steal when he's about to pay off big time.

Fletch 07-13-2005 04:25 PM

Conversely, Edge...
 
if you were a good 'ol western Canadian boy and had a choice of Nashville or Edmonton, or Toronto-born and had a choice between Toronto and PITT, given the same economics, we know where they're going.

I hear what you're saying, though. 27 (or 6 years of NHL service, which for a superstar may be 24 or 25) is a bit too young for UFA status. Great, the Rangers will get Crosby and lose him at 24 to Toronto when the kid's just entering his prime.

Levitate 07-13-2005 04:49 PM

and it could also mean the small market, less popular teams have a hard time keeping their talent compared to the long standing franchises with more tradition and fanbase.

no one gets drafted out of nashville. not very many people grow up and have a chance to play NHL hockey and say "the predators are my favorite team, i hope i get drafted by them and spend my career there!"

so those markets may experience even more of a drain than the big markets

Edge 07-13-2005 05:15 PM

and thats why hockey still has a long, uphill battle against it.

broadwayblue 07-13-2005 06:09 PM

the lower age for free agency just means that teams will have to lock up their younger players to long term deals earlier. since the max salary will be about 7+mil/year the superstars will decide where to go/stay based more on the city (geographic location and marketing possibilities) and winning than just $$$. teams like the Rangers lose out because they can't just open their checkbooks and throw rediculous offers around...but fortunately new york has the marketing possibilities to attract guys. now if we could only figure out the winning part we'd really be in good shape to make guys want to play here.

Edge 07-13-2005 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadwayblue
the lower age for free agency just means that teams will have to lock up their younger players to long term deals earlier. since the max salary will be about 7+mil/year the superstars will decide where to go/stay based more on the city (geographic location and marketing possibilities) and winning than just $$$. teams like the Rangers lose out because they can't just open their checkbooks and throw rediculous offers around...but fortunately new york has the marketing possibilities to attract guys. now if we could only figure out the winning part we'd really be in good shape to make guys want to play here.

Thats a reasonable point.

On the flip side, no younger player is going to sign a long term deal when free agency awaits. And in a sport like hockey, long term deals are gambles within themselves. Say you get a guy like Nash and sign him to a 6 year deal. By the third year he hurts his back. Now you have a player who is declining, a salary that counts against the cap and little room to improve your team.

I think teams are likely to shy away from those kind of deals and the result is more likely to be situations where a player hits 25-27 and leaves. And how much time is required to activate Free Agency? What if you have a late bloomer who doesn't step in till he is 23 or 24 or goes to college. You only get him for 4-6 years? I'm curious what the fine print is.

Kovy274Hart 07-13-2005 06:50 PM

I will maintain that I want a young nucleus to be built around. I don't want to see them go crazy and once again screw the fans.

I'd buyout Holik. Then maybe use that room to sign a LW and a D-man. You can afford both for what he makes.


I want to see guys like Lundmark, Moore, Balej, Giroux, Lampman, Pock, Wiseman, Murray being given real chances to get significant ice-time.

I hope Immonen comes over.

Muckalt 07-13-2005 07:41 PM

I would like us to feature Rachunek more prominently, I like the kid's potential.

AG9NK35DT8* 07-14-2005 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kovy274Hart
I will maintain that I want a young nucleus to be built around. I don't want to see them go crazy and once again screw the fans.

I'd buyout Holik. Then maybe use that room to sign a LW and a D-man. You can afford both for what he makes.


I want to see guys like Lundmark, Moore, Balej, Giroux, Lampman, Pock, Wiseman, Murray being given real chances to get significant ice-time.

I hope Immonen comes over.

I agree 100% with the comment and all the players mentioned...

bathgate 07-15-2005 07:21 AM

Nigel Dawes may make the big club. If there is a crackdown on interference, Dawes certainly can play for the Rangers. Without a doubt, he is the most skillled player in the system. How about a line of Jagr, Crosby, Dawes. Although defensively suspect, a lot of fun to watch.


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