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-   -   News Article: Faceoffs remain a weak link (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1510239)

BobbyJet 10-05-2013 09:04 AM

Faceoffs remain a weak link
 
Try to shelve the sarcasm but faceoffs remain an issue, and a big one ... and Q is well aware as is the team:

From Bleacher report:
" On Thursday, Quenneville turned to one of the NHLís greatest faceoff players, Yanic Perreault, to instruct the Blackhawks. Perreault, who is a Blackhawks development coach, spent about 20 minutes working with the teamís forwards on faceoffs.
The Blackhawks ranked 11th in the league last regular season with a 50.8 percent faceoff winning percentage, but that was largely due to Jonathan Toews. He won 267 faceoffs and lost 187 for a 58.8 percentage.

Among the other Blackhawks who took at least 100 faceoffs, no one had higher than a 42.5 winning percentage. Andrew Shaw, who was primarily the third-line center, was 99-134 for a 42.5 percentage; Marcus Kruger, the fourth-line center, was 96-142 for a 40.3 percentage; and Dave Bolland, the second-line center, was 95-143 for a 39.9 percentage."

Atomic Punk 10-05-2013 09:21 AM

One....flipping......game.

DisgruntledHawkFan 10-05-2013 09:23 AM

We've got Toews and Handzus in the top 6. That's two of the best FO% C's in the league.

BobbyJet 10-05-2013 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flapjacks (Post 72038029)
One....flipping......game.

I guess you didn't read the second paragraph.... those stats are for 48 games last season ..... but just keep that head in the sand.

Those stats speak for themselves but what is missing is how each of our centers fare in "key" face-offs. It seems we lose a lot of those, especially on the PK.

Bubba88 10-05-2013 10:24 AM

1 game into the season - that the Hawks won and Toews, Handzus & KrŁger were over 50% - this becomes a topic?? REALLY? :facepalm:

No Fun Shogun 10-05-2013 10:49 AM

The Hawks clearly do need to work on faceoffs, but every team has relative deficiencies and clearly that wasn't enough to sink us last year, so I don't think it's necessarily a critical issue.

And, it's a whole new year, so hopefully they're putting an effort, as the article suggests, on their faceoff effort (and the PP).

BronYrAur 10-05-2013 11:53 AM

For whatever reason it seems like none of our young centers who have come up can win faceoffs. Could be a skill that develops with experience, not sure though. But obviously with Toews out there, if we had another guy (say, Kruger) who could win half his faceoffs that would be a nice plus, especially on the PK.

zytz 10-05-2013 11:55 AM

Kruger seems like he has improved quite a bit from what we have seen so far. I'm not really worried about it

BobbyJet 10-05-2013 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubba88 (Post 72039639)
1 game into the season - that the Hawks won and Toews, Handzus & KrŁger were over 50% - this becomes a topic?? REALLY? :facepalm:

YEAH REALLY !!

The Hawk coaching staff disagrees with you. Get off your high horse.

We need Kruger, Shaw, Hanzus, whoever hovering at 50 percent or better in KEY face-off situations. Now go ahead and argue with that.

Hawkaholic 10-05-2013 12:54 PM

They definitely need to get better, but we aren't going to lose a cup because of it.

Crazy_Ike 10-05-2013 01:50 PM

It's less a problem than it is the Hawks recognizing that when your entire game plan revolves around always having the puck, you kind of want to win the faceoffs as much as possible.

It's basically the only reason Handzus is still in the NHL.

Getting ole Yanic back was a no risk move to try to improve some techniques (cough Kruger) but honestly there's only so much you can do to get better when you've been doing it since you were nine years old (and so has everyone you faceoff against). Either you have it or you don't. What Perreault can do is teach guys like Kruger how not to have draws get obliterated with clean losses.

BobbyJet 10-05-2013 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike (Post 72046379)
It's less a problem than it is the Hawks recognizing that when your entire game plan revolves around always having the puck, you kind of want to win the faceoffs as much as possible.

It's basically the only reason Handzus is still in the NHL.

Getting ole Yanic back was a no risk move to try to improve some techniques (cough Kruger) but honestly there's only so much you can do to get better when you've been doing it since you were nine years old (and so has everyone you faceoff against). Either you have it or you don't. What Perreault can do is teach guys like Kruger how not to have draws get obliterated with clean losses.

Yes. If clean losses can be held to a minimum it would definitely help the cause, especially on face-offs in our end on the PK (where it happens too often).

slappipappi 10-05-2013 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyJet (Post 72037719)
Try to shelve the sarcasm but faceoffs remain an issue, and a big one ... and Q is well aware as is the team:

From Bleacher report:
" On Thursday, Quenneville turned to one of the NHLís greatest faceoff players, Yanic Perreault, to instruct the Blackhawks. Perreault, who is a Blackhawks development coach, spent about 20 minutes working with the teamís forwards on faceoffs.
The Blackhawks ranked 11th in the league last regular season with a 50.8 percent faceoff winning percentage, but that was largely due to Jonathan Toews. He won 267 faceoffs and lost 187 for a 58.8 percentage.

Among the other Blackhawks who took at least 100 faceoffs, no one had higher than a 42.5 winning percentage. Andrew Shaw, who was primarily the third-line center, was 99-134 for a 42.5 percentage; Marcus Kruger, the fourth-line center, was 96-142 for a 40.3 percentage; and Dave Bolland, the second-line center, was 95-143 for a 39.9 percentage."


The Hawks were 11th in the NHL last year, and it's been 1 game this year.

"Remain" a concern? It hasn't been one yet.

Marotte Marauder 10-05-2013 08:49 PM

Kruger gets walked at the dot in his own zone. :cry:

Marotte Marauder 10-05-2013 09:17 PM

Yes, they remain a concern. Please do something w/Kruger. :shakehead

Marotte Marauder 10-05-2013 09:21 PM

Another lost draw by Kruger, Hawks never touch the puck again. 2-2. Yup draws aren't important nor a concern. ;)

zac 10-05-2013 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyJet (Post 72037719)
Try to shelve the sarcasm but faceoffs remain an issue, and a big one ... and Q is well aware as is the team:

From Bleacher report:
" On Thursday, Quenneville turned to one of the NHLís greatest faceoff players, Yanic Perreault, to instruct the Blackhawks. Perreault, who is a Blackhawks development coach, spent about 20 minutes working with the teamís forwards on faceoffs.
The Blackhawks ranked 11th in the league last regular season with a 50.8 percent faceoff winning percentage, but that was largely due to Jonathan Toews. He won 267 faceoffs and lost 187 for a 58.8 percentage.

Among the other Blackhawks who took at least 100 faceoffs, no one had higher than a 42.5 winning percentage. Andrew Shaw, who was primarily the third-line center, was 99-134 for a 42.5 percentage; Marcus Kruger, the fourth-line center, was 96-142 for a 40.3 percentage; and Dave Bolland, the second-line center, was 95-143 for a 39.9 percentage."

Does this mean there's hope the dumbass will recognize Keith shouldn't be on the PP and we'll finally get our pointmen off their shot sides?

FOs are an issue (Kruger was awful in DZ faceoffs tonight) but I think we piss away far more goals with our horrible PP set up. Q has no justification for doing the things that he does with that unit (or letting his asst. coaches do it).

BobbyJet 10-06-2013 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zac (Post 72086613)
Does this mean there's hope the dumbass will recognize Keith shouldn't be on the PP and we'll finally get our pointmen off their shot sides?

FOs are an issue (Kruger was awful in DZ faceoffs tonight) but I think we piss away far more goals with our horrible PP set up. Q has no justification for doing the things that he does with that unit (or letting his asst. coaches do it).

Don't count on it. It has been obvious for quite a while. Seabs tries some one timers when he can but it's usually from the wrong angle and some 55 feet from the crease.

hawksfan50 10-06-2013 11:18 AM

In the first game as I pointed out...while we were very good in faceoff wins on the neutral and o-zone areas, we won only 7 of 19 in our d-zone and some of those cost us in allowing the 3 goals on our PK...again in game 2, we lose a key dzone draw on the PK and TB scores a PP goal 31 seconds later after controlling the puck in our zone...it is not so much total faceoff wins or losses that impact the game but rather KEY faceoffs in our Dzone...especially on the PK...and KEY faceoffs in the o-zone to control the puck and create scoring opportunities.. In game 2. ..again only 5 wins of 17 draws in our dzone..Kruger was just 1 win of 8 draws in that dzone fo fail...In gme 1 Toews was only 2 wins of his 6 dzone draws...so clearly our dzone draws. ..many of which can kill us on the PK if we lose control right off the start...ARE a major problem to correct.

rick hawk 10-06-2013 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike (Post 72046379)
It's less a problem than it is the Hawks recognizing that when your entire game plan revolves around always having the puck, you kind of want to win the faceoffs as much as possible.

It's basically the only reason Handzus is still in the NHL.

Getting ole Yanic back was a no risk move to try to improve some techniques (cough Kruger) but honestly there's only so much you can do to get better when you've been doing it since you were nine years old (and so has everyone you faceoff against). Either you have it or you don't. What Perreault can do is teach guys like Kruger how not to have draws get obliterated with clean losses.

That's so true. Its not like a guy can make the NHL then decide he's going to work on become a skater like Duncan Keith or scorer like Stamkos. Its fine to work on stuff but they have been doing it their whole hockey lives. Improvement is limited at this level.

Crazy_Ike 10-06-2013 01:01 PM

It's easier to say "fix it" than to find a realistic option.

How many defensively responsible centers with high win percentages do you guys think are available?

I think we'll be living with this lineup, more or less, until the trade deadline.

BobbyJet 10-06-2013 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawksfan50 (Post 72107665)
In the first game as I pointed out...while we were very good in faceoff wins on the neutral and o-zone areas, we won only 7 of 19 in our d-zone and some of those cost us in allowing the 3 goals on our PK...again in game 2, we lose a key dzone draw on the PK and TB scores a PP goal 31 seconds later after controlling the puck in our zone...it is not so much total faceoff wins or losses that impact the game but rather KEY faceoffs in our Dzone...especially on the PK...and KEY faceoffs in the o-zone to control the puck and create scoring opportunities.. In game 2. ..again only 5 wins of 17 draws in our dzone..Kruger was just 1 win of 8 draws in that dzone fo fail...In gme 1 Toews was only 2 wins of his 6 dzone draws...so clearly our dzone draws. ..many of which can kill us on the PK if we lose control right off the start...ARE a major problem to correct.

And the above stats indicate the issue is bigger than a 2nd , 3rd, or 4th line center hovering around 40 - 45 percent.

Bubba88 10-06-2013 02:14 PM

:facepalm:

not much more to say after 2 games into the season

Marotte Marauder 10-06-2013 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubba88 (Post 72115975)
:facepalm:

not much more to say after 2 games into the season

Some wouldn't say it after 50 games, especially if they don't see it.

Bubba88 10-06-2013 04:29 PM

we won the cup last year with the same guys taking the draws... Is it really a problem?

Much like getting outhit, this is a problem that won't lose us games or will make or break our season.
Don't start with they bring in Perreault. That's a smart move but even if every player we have is 70+ % on faceoffs there is ~30% of room to improve.


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