HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Los Angeles Kings (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=42)
-   -   Belanger or Pirnes- Who do you think is better? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=151148)

Old Hickory 07-14-2005 10:10 AM

Belanger or Pirnes- Who do you think is better?
 
*Idea borrowed from DaveinLa

who do you think is the better player?

King Blazer 07-14-2005 10:15 AM

Neither, use Pirnes as the 4th line center and use Lehoux in a 3rd line center role...

Dave in LA 07-14-2005 10:16 AM

Neither. Army will be the #3 center if LA gets a true #1 center this off season.

I think Belanger's done as a king anyway.

D

King Blazer 07-14-2005 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Blazer
Neither, use Pirnes as the 4th line center and use Lehoux in a 3rd line center role...

Brown - Lexoux - TK or Avery

Face Wash 07-14-2005 10:40 AM

The one thing that always makes Belanger valuable is that he's a top 10 face off guy. Having said that, if they traded him, I wouldn't be at all bothered. but for purposes of this poll, Pirnes still has more to prove than EBel IMO.

King'sPawn 07-14-2005 10:57 AM

I voted Pirnes, but that's not to say Belanger is a bad 3rd line center. He's great, but I think Pirnes is better in his own zone.

guzmania 07-14-2005 10:57 AM

Pirnes. But wait that's not all.

If the rule changes that favor offense are instituted the whole concept of a "stopper" line may be out the window. It will be inherently less effective than it was in the "old" NHL. Maybe going balls out for offense on all lines is a better response to the rule changes. If the officiating really does have zero tolerance for obstruction the flood gates of offense will open and it will be better to strike first and let the defensive chips fall where they may. Belly the Backhanders days as a defensive specialist might be numbered, at least he will have to refashion his game. Guys like Pirnes who is used to less obstruction in the Euro game, and who was hampered by the size and strength of the shut down tactics that were employed by all teams, will have a different "worth" now. Also little fast sniper types like Ziggy, Kariya and even the younger Bure will flourish IMO. We should look to 70's style hockey as a model. Big was good, in the congested "old" game, but fast will be better without a red line, and with more room out in front of the net the wide open "new" game will let the slippery guys be much more dangerous.

swinginutter* 07-14-2005 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guzmaniac
Pirnes. But wait that's not all.

If the rule changes that favor offense are instituted the whole concept of a "stopper" line may be out the window. It will be inherently less effective than it was in the "old" NHL. Maybe going balls out for offense on all lines is a better response to the rule changes. If the officiating really does have zero tolerance for obstruction the flood gates of offense will open and it will be better to strike first and let the defensive chips fall where they may. Belly the Backhanders days as a defensive specialist might be numbered, at least he will have to refashion his game. Guys like Pirnes who is used to less obstruction in the Euro game, and who was hampered by the size and strength of the shut down tactics that were employed by all teams, will have a different "worth" now. Also little fast sniper types like Ziggy, Kariya and even the younger Bure will flourish IMO. We should look to 70's style hockey as a model. Big was good, in the congested "old" game, but fast will be better without a red line, and with more room out in front of the net the wide open "new" game will let the slippery guys be much more dangerous.

Good points but hockey will always be hockey, and if this league turns into a bunch of little Martin St. Louis's running around, i'll be pissed. I don't want clutching and grabbing or any type of trap systems just like the next guy, but hitting will always be there. This is the NHL not Intl hockey, and the talent is dilluted. If your post holds true, than the person that has to learn from this is AM more than anybody. He may spread out the talent and not suit up true heavyweights, but he has a hard-on for stopper units.
So if I had to choose between Belanger and Pirnes. It would be Pirnes! Like "facewash" said he has a lot more to prove. Belanger always blows his load in the first ten games and then he disappears for the next seventy. I like EB, but I think it's time for someone else to have a chance.

Matt13 07-14-2005 11:36 AM

I voted for Pirnes since I dont think Pirnes has reached his full potential yet in the NHL. Belanger has.

Mitchnesses 07-14-2005 12:20 PM

They both suck. Don't want either one.

Sam 07-14-2005 01:53 PM

Belanger.

Reaper45 07-14-2005 04:10 PM

Pirnes.

Mxpunk 07-14-2005 06:06 PM

FYI- I accidentally voted for Belanger, but I meant to vote for Pirnes!

two out of three* 07-14-2005 06:19 PM

Didn't we have this discussion during the season (last time we played hockey?)

Belanger is a very serviceable 3rd or 4th line Center.

Old Hickory 07-14-2005 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mxpunk
FYI- I accidentally voted for Belanger, but I meant to vote for Pirnes!

I edited the poll to reflect the vote you attempted

AnThGrt 07-14-2005 07:01 PM

This may be biased i dont know why but i've always really liked Belanger and never liked Pirnes. I dont see what people see in Pirnes i see no offense Belanger atleast brings 30+ pts per season while Pirnes brings like none. Belanger is our faceoff man i cant count the times he won that important face off for us. Truelly i just hate Pirnes i think dont know why just see nothing in him

Beauty, eh? 07-14-2005 07:09 PM

I'd take Belanger. I still can't believe Pirnes missed those penalty shots during the last season! :shakehead

Mxpunk 07-14-2005 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsjohn
I edited the poll to reflect the vote you attempted

Thanks, KJ!

I truly feel that Pirnes can offer everything that Belanger has to offer if given more playing time...

Also, his totals, although in Europe this past season, show that he has the playmaking ability:

2004-05 Lukko Rauma FNL 47 9 29 38 31 9 1 3 4 2

He will likely come at a cheaper price than Belanger, since he made about half of what Belanger did the past season, and he has played less games....
Maybe I am biased too because I have never liked Belanger...My only favorite moment with him is when he made fun of Worrell's skating in LV 2 seasons ago...
Otherwise, he is too weak & too inconsistent for me...I think that we should trade him now while he has some value...Knowing how Montreal loves French Canadiens, I'm sure we could get a good deal if we re-signed him!

Kingz4life 07-14-2005 11:26 PM

I'm going to vote for Belanger because he's more proven and I just think he had an offer year and still outplayed Pirnes. But I like Pirnes too.

McSorley 33 07-14-2005 11:43 PM

At least every once in awhile Belanger will be a man and hit somebody. :dunno:

Dooney 07-15-2005 08:04 AM

I'll take Esa....I think he needed to get his US game on. I have a feeling he will develop into a good 3rd line player. I like him much better than I do Belanger. I'm just going on a gut feeling on this one.

Game Misconduct 07-15-2005 01:16 PM

I find the question to be ridiculous. Belanger by a mile! :shakehead

bland 07-15-2005 02:55 PM

Not even close - Pirnes is the man!

Belanger has already proven thrice-fold that he cannot play on a scoring line, and his defensive weaknesses grow more apparent every year. We know exactly what we have in Belanger: wins a good majority of the draws and forechecks well. There is no potential left.

However, the guy is injury prone, failed as a #2 center, has never been an offensive threat without Lappy on his wing, consistently loses his man in his zone, and absolutely sucks on the PK. He is ideally suited for an energy-line, but his responsibilities as a defense-first centerman clearly outweigh his abilities.

Pirnes, on the other hand, is much more sound in the defensive zone, greatly improved on draws from the beginning of the season, has proven international experience with offensive success, skates better (though not a deficiency in Belanger's game), and showed good chemistry with Dustin Brown in (limited) action. I have no doubt that he will continue to refine his NA game, AND provide more offense and defense than Belanger.

I think Pirnes is a sleeper who could very quickly fill a very important role with this club, while Belanger has shown time and time again that he cannot be counted on.

Sam 07-15-2005 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game Misconduct
I find the question to be ridiculous. Belanger by a mile! :shakehead

Seconded.

I don't understand where people get the idea that Pirnes has some hidden offensive potential. The guy didn't crack ten goals in the Finnish league last year. Pirnes is older than Belanger, BTW.

King'sPawn 07-15-2005 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam
Seconded.

I don't understand where people get the idea that Pirnes has some hidden offensive potential. The guy didn't crack ten goals in the Finnish league last year. Pirnes is older than Belanger, BTW.

1. 8 months older... that issue is almost negligible when we're talking about prospects. It's not a worthwhile issue to discuss when you're talking about 28 year-olds, unless you're simply refuting someone else saying Pirnes is younger.

2. Just because he didn't crack ten goals in the Finnish league doesn't mean he doesn't have offensive potential. For one, I believe he was injured for part of the season. He was 4th in scoring on his team, one point behind second... while playing three less games. For another, he also had 29 assists. Was Adam Oates not offensively gifted because he had only 341 goals in 1,337 games? Bear in mind, I'm not saying Pirnes is Oates, but to base offensive ability on goals alone is a horrible assumption to make.

3. I like Pirnes more because I think he's better defensively.

4. If I recall correctly, Belanger said he prefers the role of a third liner; he doesn't want to be a second liner. If push comes to shove, and God forbid we need our third line center to move up to the second line center role again... would you rather give it to someone who doesn't want it?

Granted, it's very close because I do think Belanger is better offensively. And if you like Belanger more, I can understand that. However, you seem to be selling Pirnes short. I think he had a good debut as a two-way forward after he's spent his entire time playing hockey in Finland.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:31 AM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.