HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   The History of Hockey (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=126)
-   -   Where was hockey first played? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1518335)

robwangjing 10-16-2013 11:45 PM

Where was hockey first played?
 
This has always confused me, since I first read that it originates from the UK but when I spoke with a Canadian in Beijing he told me it originates from Canada and that in the UK they played football on the ice and not ice hockey.

And I spoke to a Russian and he said ice ice hockey comes from Russian hockey which was first played with not a puck but with a small ball. And later became two sports.

So where did it originate, which country gave birth to this sport? Does anyone really know?:laugh:

UK, Canada, Russia or other place?

alko 10-17-2013 02:39 AM

A time ago i saw an article, where was mentioned, that ice-hockey came from native americans. And no, it was not Winnetou :) .

Crosbyfan 10-17-2013 05:06 AM

Where was something resembling ice hockey first played?

Or where was something resembling ice hockey that developed into modern ice hockey first played?

Here is the Windsor Nova Scotia claim

http://www.birthplaceofhockey.com

Did this lead to the modern game?

Bandy certainly predates it, but is not considered to have lead to modern ice hockey.

feffan 10-17-2013 06:47 AM

You can never really say. Canada has their claim, the brits have their, if you count bandy the nordic countries and Russia have their claim, and the dutch have their claim with paintings to show something similiar to ice hockey (probably earlie kolven, but who knows...), and so on...

As with most sports, it evolved a little bit here and a little bit there. The first known entry about something simular to ice hockey is probably knattleikr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knattleikr

One of few sports that claim to trace to an exact origin is basketball.

Hanji 10-17-2013 07:15 AM

Obviously the modern game was codified in Canada. But like feffan said, various forms of the game have been played for ages all over Europe.

revolverjgw 10-17-2013 01:41 PM

Chris Chelios' driveway in ancient Macedonia

Signature 10-17-2013 01:55 PM

Probably on ice, if you're talking ice hockey.

Brainiac 10-17-2013 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revolverjgw (Post 72765465)
Chris Chelios' driveway in ancient Macedonia

:handclap:

I've heard they were using frozen mammoth's dang as a puck back then.

Makes you wonder, has the game got too clean with time?

Calirose 10-17-2013 02:12 PM

Kings Edgehill School Windsor NS. Home of Debate Camp Canada. This debate is over.

bucks_oil 10-17-2013 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feffan (Post 72751221)
You can never really say. Canada has their claim, the brits have their, if you count bandy the nordic countries and Russia have their claim, and the dutch have their claim with paintings to show something similiar to ice hockey (probably earlie kolven, but who knows...), and so on...

As with most sports, it evolved a little bit here and a little bit there. The first known entry about something simular to ice hockey is probably knattleikr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knattleikr

One of few sports that claim to trace to an exact origin is basketball.

Heh.... Also invented by a Canadian ;)

(though admitedly, he had the benefit of being stationed in the US at the time)

Thesensation19* 10-17-2013 03:02 PM

A long long long time ago,

Native Americans played lacrosse during the warm seasons. Yet when it was cold and there was ice on the ground, lacrosse was not really an option so they created a sport on the ground and... ON ICE!

Theres a lot of crazy stories out there on the topic. Real legendary stories and folk tales.

1 story I recall was how a deity enslaved the land. And that a man came to the rescue to save them. They played a game of hockey kind of. They were asked to poke at a skull on ice and have it slide over across the huge lake to knock over some sticks or something (basically shoot at). The deity had missed. And the man would have too but a gust of wind helped him succeed and free the land.

Legends have it that tribes would play the game among each tribes. Each tribe had a team of dozens of men. Some tribes had women too. And the zone of play would apparently be between tribes, sometimes miles long. And like hockey, the tribes would have to score a skull or something between two poles located in the other tribes center. Idk lol. Imagine doznes of native americans playing this? I think they used wood and bones for skates.

One tribe would win and then kill the loser. And they say that fighting is an issue lol

Pilgrams in the 1700s played it as well on frozen ponds. It was played with wooden sticks and a ball of some kind.


It started to be more organized later on in the 1800s I believe. In Montreal they played the first organized game. And it took off.

Game use to be played with a ball... then they cut it in half, then they made it a disc (puck).

Puck is originated from the word poke. Seriously. To poke at.

NHL and organized hockey started with 7 men, an extra position called rover. Basically wild player. And there was no forward passing. Funny is that Lester Patrick who played Rover, helped abolish the position and forward passing. As well as other things we see today.

Thesensation19* 10-17-2013 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brainiac (Post 72766375)
:handclap:

I've heard they were using frozen mammoth's dang as a puck back then.

Makes you wonder, has the game got too clean with time?

ACTUALLY YES I FORGOT THIS. Idk about mammoths lol. But they would use animal feces

Hawksfan2828 10-17-2013 06:01 PM

I'm sure almost all cultures have been knocking a ball, rock, cow pie, (or anything that is small) around on the ground with a stick as a "game" for thousands of years...

The goal of hockey and the way it's played has a lot in common with many past and present sports throughout the world...

robwangjing 10-21-2013 07:46 PM

Thanks for all the answers. I believe this might be a question too difficult to answer. But we might conclude it's origin is either from a cold place in Europe-Russia or North America.:nod:

Or perhaps I should put in a Chinese theory in the context. :sarcasm:

Ice hockey dates back to the Qing Dynasty in China. Emperor Chongzhen introduced ice hockey to the people to calm people down and give them some relaxing activity. This on the other hand led to massive uproaring due the imperial team beating the peasant team 13-2 in the first game. And with this failure on his hands, emperor Chongzhen took his own life and banned ice hockey in China for many years to come. And this is why ice hockey is not very popular in China, we are ashamed of our past.:sarcasm:

Hammer Time 10-21-2013 08:29 PM

Well, there was this guy in Ancient Egypt, right after they realized that having the Nile to fertilize their farms meant they didn't have to hunt and gather no more, who took a log and shot a skull between two pyramids to celebrate. And thus began the game of hockey. :sarcasm:

As far as stick-and-ball games on ice go, there are records of them being played in northern and eastern Europe during the Little Ice Age (15th-18th centuries). So yeah, Russia/Sweden/UK/Netherlands/anywhere else cold probably has a claim. The Aboriginals in North America probably did the same type of thing. No one really knows who did it first.

What Canada claims to have originated is the modern, organized game of hockey with rinks, rules, and refs. All those earlier people played the game outside on a frozen pond or river, but in the winter of 1874/75, a civil engineer/lawyer/figure skating judge named James Creighton decided to try playing hockey indoors and wrote down a list of rules for it. On March 3, 1875, at the Victoria Rink in Montreal, Creighton and a few of his friends played the first indoor game of hockey using the new rules. So yeah, if you're talking about organized hockey then Montreal is the place you're looking for.

VanIslander 10-21-2013 08:43 PM

When was field hockey first played? That's another sport.

When he asks about "hockey" he is tacitly asking about the sport of "ice hockey".

Anyone who thinks field hockey and ice hockey are the same sport is not familiar with both or else glosses over the very real differences between each.

Scandinavia and Canada have the earliest recorded games on the ice with sticks.

The history of ice hockey, I contend, truly begins with the puck.

Brooklanders* 02-04-2014 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucks_oil (Post 72767899)
Heh.... Also invented by a Canadian ;)

(though admitedly, he had the benefit of being stationed in the US at the time)

But hockey wasn't invented by a Canadian.

Killion 02-04-2014 10:36 PM

... :laugh: you guys just wont let this subject drop huh? Well OK then. Here, heres a link to the August body known as the Society for International Hockey Research, who have exhaustively researched this very subject, and a fascinating one it be. I would strongly urge you read this in detail, as it truly is the definitive outline of the when's & wherefores' of hockeys development & who & where the game of hockey came to be what we ourselves today recognize it as being. Highly edifying, entertaining, even if it does come across as dry & powdery...

www.sihrhockey.org/origins_main.cfm

thevil 02-05-2014 08:06 AM

There were many things that were like hockey that were played for a long time, usually adaptations of other sports by playing them on ice. But the first real, hockey sticks and skates game was played between two teams at McGill university at some point in time.

Iain Fyffe 02-06-2014 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robwangjing (Post 72746251)
So where did it originate, which country gave birth to this sport? Does anyone really know?

This depends on exactly what you mean by hockey. The answer can range from somewhere in the mists of history, to Montreal in 1875.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Crosbyfan (Post 72750339)
Here is the Windsor Nova Scotia claim

http://www.birthplaceofhockey.com

The Windsor claim is based on a passage in a work of fiction, something said by a fictional character who (even in the context of the fictional story) was guessing about another character's past rather than relating something from his own past. The Windsor proponents always call The Attache a memoir rather than a novel, meaning either they have never read it themselves or are intentionally misprepresenting it.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Thesensation19 (Post 72769011)
NHL and organized hockey started with 7 men, an extra position called rover. Basically wild player. And there was no forward passing. Funny is that Lester Patrick who played Rover, helped abolish the position and forward passing. As well as other things we see today.

The rover was gone from the eastern game by the time the NHL came around, and Lester Patrick had nothing to do with eliminating it. In fact, when it was eliminated in the east, his league on the west coast continued to use the position for many years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer Time (Post 73012515)
Well, there was this guy in Ancient Egypt, right after they realized that having the Nile to fertilize their farms meant they didn't have to hunt and gather no more, who took a log and shot a skull between two pyramids to celebrate. And thus began the game of hockey. :sarcasm:

Sounds like you've been reading Splendid is the Sun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer Time (Post 73012515)
On March 3, 1875, at the Victoria Rink in Montreal, Creighton and a few of his friends played the first indoor game of hockey using the new rules. So yeah, if you're talking about organized hockey then Montreal is the place you're looking for.

This is valid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanIslander (Post 73013433)
The history of ice hockey, I contend, truly begins with the puck.

Interesting, I make the very same argument in my book. In reference to the modern, organized version of the game. In 1875 they decided to use a puck. If you consider a game played with a ball to be hockey, then you'd have to call bandy hockey. The only other ways to differentiate it would be things like the number of players and the size of the playing surface or nets, or sticks, and all of these details have changed over the life of modern hockey so aren't useful to differentiate them.

Big Phil 02-06-2014 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe (Post 79489157)
This depends on exactly what you mean by hockey. The answer can range from somewhere in the mists of history, to Montreal in 1875.

The most common one I see as well. But from Windsor to Montreal I've heard a lot of different versions. Let's just say, somewhere on the St. Lawrence River.

Killion 02-06-2014 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe (Post 79489157)
The Windsor claim is based on a passage in a work of fiction, something said by a fictional character who (even in the context of the fictional story) was guessing about another character's past rather than relating something from his own past.... In 1875 they decided to use a puck. If you consider a game played with a ball to be hockey, then you'd have to call bandy hockey.

First pucks essentially being just a blank cut from a log, app 3-4"'s in diameter by about 2"'s thick no? Readily available & cheap. As in free.... and yes, the oft referred to reference in that novel anecdotal, thin on actual documentation (as you say imaginings) from the period earlier than when that novel was published. Simply doesnt hold up to scrutiny absent supporting evidence.... I go with the SIHR's time-lines & attributions, Creighton, Montreal Rules.

Theokritos 02-06-2014 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe (Post 79489157)
In 1875 they decided to use a puck. If you consider a game played with a ball to be hockey, then you'd have to call bandy hockey. The only other ways to differentiate it would be things like the number of players and the size of the playing surface or nets, or sticks, and all of these details have changed over the life of modern hockey so aren't useful to differentiate them.

Absolutely agree. The most senseful way to deal with it is to distinguish between ice hockey with the ball and ice hockey with the puck. From a tradition Canadian point of view it might seem strange or redundant, but that's exactly what they did in Europe when the game with the puck was introduced and started to widely (but not fully) replace the game with the ball. In the early phase many teams could and would switch from one to another, depending on which opponent they played against. The puck is really what defines Canadian ice hockey.

Chrisinroch 02-06-2014 02:52 PM

Toronto, if this board is any indication.

Killion 02-06-2014 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisinroch (Post 79493713)
Toronto, if this board is any indication.

... :laugh: Nice shot Chris. But no, certainly wasnt Muddy York back in the day.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:45 PM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.