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-   -   ESPN.com: Trading Jonathan Bernier still bothers Kings' GM (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1519647)

hockeywiz542 10-19-2013 01:02 AM

ESPN.com: Trading Jonathan Bernier still bothers Kings' GM
 
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...thers-kings-gm

Quote:

"It doesnít surprise me at all," Lombardi told ESPN.com Friday. "We knew this guy. After the trade, he sent me a text to thank me for trading him. I replied back, 'I just wish I could have been Glen Sather and had Moog and Fuhr but that is impossible today.'"

In Lombardiís dream scenario, Jonathan Quick and Bernier would play their careers together in L.A. and give the Kings the best one-two punch in the NHL for a decade, as the 1980s Oilers had with Grant Fuhr and Andy Moog. But reality dictated otherwise. In the salary cap era with Bernierís contract coming up this past summer, Lombardi knew he couldnít keep both. He also knew Bernier had grown tired of his secondary role in L.A. and there was no way the Kings could ever placate the young goalieís needs behind Quick, a Conn Smythe Trophy and Stanley Cup winner signed to a long-term deal.

So Lombardi promised Bernier a deal and he delivered, but the trade remains difficult for the Kings GM to stomach.

"I donít think any general manager wants to be in that position where you have to trade a player and heís a really good player," Lombardi said.

"What makes this tough is that itís procedural, you have to move him, itís not even a hockey deal, youíre looking for an asset deal."

What made it worse for Lombardi is that he doesnít feel other NHL teams fully realized Bernierís potential and value.

"You've got something that's valuable that you have to move, but the market doesnít recognize it," Lombardi said.

"[Toronto GM] Dave Nonis was really the only one who was seriously interested in him. Everyone else was just tire-kicking. I was shocked at the lack of real interest. He had proven himself again last season. The other reason I think people overlook Bernier is because he is small; they overlook his hockey sense, which is his best asset.

"I give Nonis a lot of credit. A week after he got the [GM] job [in Toronto], he was all over Bernier."

Vamos Rafa 10-19-2013 01:05 AM

I'll always be unsatisfied with this trade until we get a gem from the pick Toronto gave us.

Ziggy Stardust 10-19-2013 02:13 AM

Goes to show you how unintelligent some GMs are and how so many teams live in a bubble in their failure to recognize Bernier's talents. Even from what little we saw of him every season as a backup, you could just see it in his game that Bernier had the physical tools to someday be a starting goaltender. But we'll just let those fools kick themselves for not realizing his potential. It stings that the Kings had to give him up but it's the way the CBA is and it was going to be impossible to retain Bernier, especially against his wishes.

Telos 10-19-2013 02:18 AM

The article has been around, and nothing we don't already know. Dean wasn't too keen on it when it went down and leading up to it. The problem was the market wasn't good, the interest was low, and Bernier was still seen as unproven. There was no way we were going to get good value for him, so we had to settle for fair value. Not much that could be done, we had to get rid of him.

Brodeur 10-21-2013 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust (Post 72869523)
Goes to show you how unintelligent some GMs are and how so many teams live in a bubble in their failure to recognize Bernier's talents. Even from what little we saw of him every season as a backup, you could just see it in his game that Bernier had the physical tools to someday be a starting goaltender. But we'll just let those fools kick themselves for not realizing his potential. It stings that the Kings had to give him up but it's the way the CBA is and it was going to be impossible to retain Bernier, especially against his wishes.

Goalie market is tough nowadays. Albeit, I thought Washington got a lot more for Varlamov than I would have expected (and then parlayed that into a questionable move for Erat).

There were only a handful of clubs looking for a guy like Bernier. The Devils opted for Schneider and the Islanders decided to go another year with Nabokov. As for the Islanders, I wonder if they'll be angling for a guy like Ryan Miller next offseason. Not sure what Edmonton could have offered that would have been of interest to the Kings.

CREW99AW 10-21-2013 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur (Post 72992343)
Goalie market is tough nowadays. Albeit, I thought Washington got a lot more for Varlamov than I would have expected (and then parlayed that into a questionable move for Erat).

There were only a handful of clubs looking for a guy like Bernier. The Devils opted for Schneider and the Islanders decided to go another year with Nabokov. As for the Islanders, I wonder if they'll be angling for a guy like Ryan Miller next offseason. Not sure what Edmonton could have offered that would have been of interest to the Kings.

I was a little surprised to read that only Toronto and Philly were serious bidders.

A newsday source said Snow had offered Nino for Schnieder. I had assumed he had also been offered for Bernier.

Jason Lewis 10-21-2013 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust (Post 72869523)
Goes to show you how unintelligent some GMs are and how so many teams live in a bubble in their failure to recognize Bernier's talents. Even from what little we saw of him every season as a backup, you could just see it in his game that Bernier had the physical tools to someday be a starting goaltender. But we'll just let those fools kick themselves for not realizing his potential. It stings that the Kings had to give him up but it's the way the CBA is and it was going to be impossible to retain Bernier, especially against his wishes.

It really is very puzzling. Especially when you look at the goaltending status of teams like Calgary, NYI, Edmonton, Philly...who all are in serious need of goaltending. Then to a lesser extent Washington, Winnipeg, Pittsburgh and Florida who have questionable starters.

How could they not take the availability of a former first round goaltender seriously? Good on Nonis really. He capitalized while others were sleeping this summer I guess.

CowMix 10-21-2013 01:58 PM

It would have been a great trade if Frattin played as well in the regular season as he did in preseason :/

Butch 19 10-21-2013 02:38 PM

I just hope DL is bothered enough to NEVER draft a goalie in the 1st round again.

Goaltanding was not a pressing need when Bernier was drafted (defense was, and a scoring RW [sound familiar?]).

Now he's been traded so DL has essentially swapped a #11 for a #99 + 2nd rd pick. Not really improving over the last 6 - 7 years.

You think the Kings would have learned with the Jamie Storr experiment about using a high draft pick on a goalie. Not. worth. the. risk.

Omni Owl 10-21-2013 02:56 PM

...I'm not ready to give up on Frattin and Scrivens just yet, there's still a lot of hockey to be played and plenty of time improve oneself. I'm glad DL is being transparent about it though, because there's so many factors going into a trade. I think salary cap anxiety could've been a motivator there...

King In The North 10-21-2013 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Lewis (Post 72994101)
It really is very puzzling. Especially when you look at the goaltending status of teams like Calgary, NYI, Edmonton, Philly...who all are in serious need of goaltending. Then to a lesser extent Washington, Winnipeg, Pittsburgh and Florida who have questionable starters.

How could they not take the availability of a former first round goaltender seriously? Good on Nonis really. He capitalized while others were sleeping this summer I guess.

Calgary wouldn't have the assets nor could they afford to for what would be a division rival trade. I'd imagine that 2nd Toronto gave up would've been a 1st coming from Calgary.

Axl Rhoadz* 10-21-2013 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butch 19 (Post 72996531)
I just hope DL is bothered enough to NEVER draft a goalie in the 1st round again.

Goaltanding was not a pressing need when Bernier was drafted (defense was, and a scoring RW [sound familiar?]).

Now he's been traded so DL has essentially swapped a #11 for a #99 + 2nd rd pick. Not really improving over the last 6 - 7 years.

You think the Kings would have learned with the Jamie Storr experiment about using a high draft pick on a goalie. Not. worth. the. risk.

Wait a second....I think everyone is forgetting that Jonathan Quick basically came out of nowhere, nobody saw that guy becoming the Kings #1 goaltender and future Conn Smythe winner. Quick was doing everything that Bernier has been predicted to do....so had it not been for Quick, we'd probably have Bernier as our #1 and we'd all be pretty happy about it.

Boba Fettuccine 10-21-2013 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axl Rhoadz (Post 729985271)
and we'd all be pretty happy about it.

What? are you new?

Nobody will ever be happy about anything. Even when the Kings won the cup, Face Wash was pissed that the Kings only scored 6 goals that game

Scottkmlps 10-21-2013 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butch 19 (Post 72996531)
I just hope DL is bothered enough to NEVER draft a goalie in the 1st round again.

Goaltanding was not a pressing need when Bernier was drafted (defense was, and a scoring RW [sound familiar?]).

Now he's been traded so DL has essentially swapped a #11 for a #99 + 2nd rd pick. Not really improving over the last 6 - 7 years.

You think the Kings would have learned with the Jamie Storr experiment about using a high draft pick on a goalie. Not. worth. the. risk.

The Kings had Garon & LaBarbera. Goaltending was a very pressing need.

Omni Owl 10-21-2013 03:43 PM

Man the important thing is we still have all the right guys to go back to the finals and win.

driller1 10-21-2013 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butch 19 (Post 72996531)
I just hope DL is bothered enough to NEVER draft a goalie in the 1st round again.

Goaltanding was not a pressing need when Bernier was drafted (defense was, and a scoring RW [sound familiar?]).

Wait a second, I thought Goaltending was one of our biggest needs when Bernier was drafted. Wasn't that around the time Cloutier was tending net and we ran through 7 or 8 tenders in one season including the unforgettable Fukijaki (sp?). Wasn't Bernier rushed to the NHL at 18 yrs of age, where he started against Anaheim overseas before flopping in the next few games and being sent back to juniors?

Boba Fettuccine 10-21-2013 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butch 19 (Post 72996531)
I just hope DL is bothered enough to NEVER draft a goalie in the 1st round again.

Goaltanding was not a pressing need when Bernier was drafted

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Pucknut50 10-21-2013 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butch 19 (Post 72996531)
I just hope DL is bothered enough to NEVER draft a goalie in the 1st round again.

Goaltanding was not a pressing need when Bernier was drafted (defense was, and a scoring RW [sound familiar?]).

Now he's been traded so DL has essentially swapped a #11 for a #99 + 2nd rd pick. Not really improving over the last 6 - 7 years.

You think the Kings would have learned with the Jamie Storr experiment about using a high draft pick on a goalie. Not. worth. the. risk.

Yeah we had Garon, Burke, Cloutier, even Fukifuji no pressing need of a goaltender.
The only reason the Bernier pick is not considered a great pick is due to J. Quick.
The reason DL is upset is he got taken by Toronto.

kingsfan 10-21-2013 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust (Post 72869523)
Goes to show you how unintelligent some GMs are and how so many teams live in a bubble in their failure to recognize Bernier's talents. Even from what little we saw of him every season as a backup, you could just see it in his game that Bernier had the physical tools to someday be a starting goaltender. But we'll just let those fools kick themselves for not realizing his potential. It stings that the Kings had to give him up but it's the way the CBA is and it was going to be impossible to retain Bernier, especially against his wishes.

QFT.

Also quoted because the article also illustrates one fact that to many posters around here couldn't -and still haven't- accepted. The market for goalies who aren't established starters is very weak.

Before Bernier was traded some posters were demanded a ridiculous payment. Even after, there's still some saying "I'd have held out for a 1st", or "I'd have demanded the LW to fix our top 6." The market doesn't bear that out, DL got a very solid return for what Bernier had proven he was -which was a backup with some serious potential for more but still unproven as a starter. To get a legit roster player, a solid back up -both of whom had, and still do have, potential to be more than that- a 2nd round pick and $500,000 in retained cap space is a very good deal. Even if DL is overembellishing, the number of teams in play for Bernier was very low, so he squeezed out a very solid return for an asset with limited trade value.

Ziggy understood this, kudos to him for getting it. A few others have as well. Hopefully the rest of you can either finally grasp how limited the trade market is in certain situations -like Bernier's- or just drop the issue. The trade is done, we got our return, deal with it.

Riposte! 10-21-2013 04:19 PM

I'd be upset, too, if the incredible Matt Frattin was one of the players I got back. Trade has paid nearly 0 dividends for the Kings so far, in hindsight.

onlyalad 10-21-2013 04:20 PM

DL is upset with the cap and how it was handled. He feels that he did everything right by the old CBA and did not try to cheat and now teams that did get an out(or two). He has said that the way the cap going down was handled punished guys like him and helped guys who made questionable deals.

KINGS17 10-21-2013 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butch 19 (Post 72996531)
I just hope DL is bothered enough to NEVER draft a goalie in the 1st round again.

Goaltanding was not a pressing need when Bernier was drafted (defense was, and a scoring RW [sound familiar?]).

Now he's been traded so DL has essentially swapped a #11 for a #99 + 2nd rd pick. Not really improving over the last 6 - 7 years.

You think the Kings would have learned with the Jamie Storr experiment about using a high draft pick on a goalie. Not. worth. the. risk.

The Kings nor anyone else for that matter had no idea what Quick would become. At the time he was still playing in Reading, PA.

Considering the lack of quality goaltending in the organization, in I dunno like forever, a home grown goalie was absolutely a priority. Judging by the looks of things, I would definitely trust the Kings scouting department if they believe that there is a goalie out there worth taking with a 1st round pick. You have guys like Jones and Berube that seem to be starting to pan out a bit. As much as Bernier was Al Murray's pick, I don't think it happens without Lombardi signing off on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by onlyalad (Post 73000587)
DL is upset with the cap and how it was handled. He feels that he did everything right by the old CBA and did not try to cheat and now teams that did get an out(or two). He has said that the way the cap going down was handled punished guys like him and helped guys who made questionable deals.

Essentially the Kings had no bad contracts to use the amnesty buyouts on last summer. I guess you could make an argument for Stoll and Regehr today, but that would be really Monday-morning QBing. No buyouts, no additional cap space.

Boba Fettuccine 10-21-2013 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsfan (Post 73000307)
deal with it.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...43/561/afc.gif

Ziggy Stardust 10-21-2013 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottkmlps (Post 72999157)
The Kings had Garon & LaBarbera. Goaltending was a very pressing need.

They also tried (and failed) to acquire Roberto Luongo the week of the 2006 draft, right before they settled on selecting Bernier with their 1st pick.

kingsfan28 10-21-2013 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butch 19 (Post 72996531)
I just hope DL is bothered enough to NEVER draft a goalie in the 1st round again.

Goaltanding was not a pressing need when Bernier was drafted (defense was, and a scoring RW [sound familiar?]).

Now he's been traded so DL has essentially swapped a #11 for a #99 + 2nd rd pick. Not really improving over the last 6 - 7 years.

You think the Kings would have learned with the Jamie Storr experiment about using a high draft pick on a goalie. Not. worth. the. risk.

That pick was, IMO done more to impress the new GM, than out of need. I don't even considered this a Lombardi draft because all the scouts including our top notch head of scouting Al Murray, knew DL likes to draft goalies. All the scouting reports came from Taylors awesome former staff, not from Lombardi.

While people complain about not getting enough for him, the reality is that was the best he could do. I also think the lockout hurt his value too. He would've play at least another 10+ games.


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