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-   -   Why do you think Baseball has more famous Game 6s, and Hockey has more Game 7s? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1521713)

Big Phil 10-22-2013 03:41 PM

Why do you think Baseball has more famous Game 6s, and Hockey has more Game 7s?
 
When you think of Baseball from a historical perspective and tie in all-time great games so many of their greatest moments happened in Game 6, rather than Game 7. Even at times when a series went to Game 7 the crowning moment often came in Game 6.

I'll give some examples:
1986 Mets/Red Sox, 1975 Reds/Red Sox, 1977 Dodgers/Yankees, 1993 Phillies/Jays, 2011 Rangers/Cardinals, 1985 Cardinals/Royals, 1991 Twins/Braves, 2002 Angels/Giants, etc.

Some of those series went the full distance, but Game 7 is remembered the most.

Hockey is completely the opposite. Quite often Game 6 is forgotten and placed well behind Game 7. The greatest hockey moments happened in Game 7 while in Baseball it is Game 6. Not to say the opposite can't happen. In Baseball you have Game 7 heroics with Bill Maseroski in 1960, Aaron Boone in 2003, etc. But there are far more memorable Game 6 moments.

Hockey is littered with Game 7 moments and there are several times when people forget other parts of the series other than that one game. Without looking, who won Games 1-6 in order in the Vancouver/Calgary series of 1989? Just saying.

Anyway, anyone willing to give it a crack as to why this is? Perhaps it is just a mere coincidence? When I come up with a good theory, I'll post it.

tarheelhockey 10-22-2013 04:08 PM

I'm not sure the correlation is all that strong. Brett Hull's skate-in-crease goal was a game 6. Bob Nystrom's iconic goal was a game 6. Theo Fleury slid across the ice in game 6. Gretzky's non-high-stick was in a game 6. Bob Baun scored on a broken leg in game 6. The Hawks rallied in 17 seconds in game 6.

I think the really memorable ones are simply the decisive games. Hockey series really are a war, and the sudden-death aspect of overtime brings that stress to a boil. Most legendary hockey goals are in OT, regardless of which game.

Big Phil 10-22-2013 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarheelhockey (Post 73050293)
I'm not sure the correlation is all that strong. Brett Hull's skate-in-crease goal was a game 6. Bob Nystrom's iconic goal was a game 6. Theo Fleury slid across the ice in game 6. Gretzky's non-high-stick was in a game 6. Bob Baun scored on a broken leg in game 6. The Hawks rallied in 17 seconds in game 6.

I think the really memorable ones are simply the decisive games. Hockey series really are a war, and the sudden-death aspect of overtime brings that stress to a boil. Most legendary hockey goals are in OT, regardless of which game.

That's true, there are lots of Game 6 moments in hockey, no doubt. But in the ones you mentioned, the Fleury goal was followed up by a come from behind Game 7 from the Oilers, and Tikannen's overtime winner. Gretzky's high stick was followed up with a legendary hat trick. The others are true.

But if we mentioned the classic Game 7 moments in hockey we'd need another page. But in Baseball Game 6 is often the crown jewel.

MXD 10-22-2013 05:03 PM

Because more were asleep by game 7 in baseball.

MadLuke 10-22-2013 05:06 PM

Game number in a baseball typical series are probably more important than in hockey because of the pitcher rotation.

Maybe you should look at this direction ?

Game 6 as always a team that could loose, so they will often be "all-in" with their pitching staff.

Also maybe look at the number of game 6 vs number of game 7, because all series than went in 7 had a game 6 and not vice versa, I would assume that you have at least twice as many game 6 than game 7 (probably a little little bit more), so you can expect twice as many great game 6 than game 7.

Also, very minor thing, you do not have any round 1 game 7 in baseball, and round 1-2 game 7 can me remembered (Crosby vs Ovy), Yzerman vs the blues, etc...

LeBlondeDemon10 10-22-2013 08:16 PM

I think a possible reason is that for every game in baseball there is a different starting pitcher. Its possible that one or both aces on each team matched up against each other in the 6th game. For example, Curt Shilling pitching game 6 in the 2004 ALCS in Yankee Stadium with a severed tendon in his ankle.

However, BP you are forgetting a couple of great game 7's in baseball history. 1991 game 6 was great , but in game 7 Morris pitched a 10 inning shutout. 1960, Bill Mazeroski hit his famous homerun in game 7 to beat the Yankees. 1968, Mickey Lolich beats the unhittable Bob Gibson in game 7 for a huge upset (check out Gibson's 68 season). 1961, Yankees beat the Giants in 7 1-0 with Bobby Richardson snagging Willie McCovey's line drive with 2 on and 2 out in the 9th. Willie Stargell's famous 2 run homer off McGregor in game 7 of the 1979 WS. 2001 Luis Gonzalez drives a base hit off of Mariano Rivera in the bottom of the 9th to win in for Arizona. And who could forget the 1997 WS where the Florida Marlins scored in the bottom of the 11th of game 7 to beat Cleveland.

Also, the NHL has far more playoff rounds than MLB.

Trebek 10-23-2013 10:51 PM

If we assume the premise (I'm not 100% convinced, but I'm willing to go with it), could part of the difference be explained by the different playoff formats?

Bure All Day 10-23-2013 11:22 PM

I don't even agree with that statement, both have had memorable games in the 6th and 7th games of a series..

MadLuke 10-24-2013 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur (Post 73132889)
If we assume the premise (I'm not 100% convinced, but I'm willing to go with it), could part of the difference be explained by the different playoff formats?

Or we thing too much ?

They are much much more game 6 than game 7 (twice or maybe a bit more), so having more great game 6 than 7 is just..... normal ?

brec7 10-24-2013 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur (Post 73132889)
If we assume the premise (I'm not 100% convinced, but I'm willing to go with it), could part of the difference be explained by the different playoff formats?

Yes, 100%.

Baseball uses 2-3-2... games are more memorable when the home team wins.

There's your answer.

brec7 10-24-2013 05:13 AM

Actually... thinking about it I'm realising I didn't even get the strength of my own point. Fan reaction makes a sporting moment more memorable, but this is even MORE the case in baseball because only the home team can win by scoring on the last play of the game.

Generally, offense winning at the last minute is more exciting than defense winning at the last moment (a walkoff homer is exciting even if the home run itself isn't anything special, whereas the road team winning would require a spectacular catch/play at the plate/etc which is much more rare.)

BrimStone64 10-24-2013 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Phil (Post 73049079)
When you think of Baseball from a historical perspective and tie in all-time great games so many of their greatest moments happened in Game 6, rather than Game 7. Even at times when a series went to Game 7 the crowning moment often came in Game 6.

I'll give some examples:
1986 Mets/Red Sox, 1975 Reds/Red Sox, 1977 Dodgers/Yankees, 1993 Phillies/Jays, 2011 Rangers/Cardinals, 1985 Cardinals/Royals, 1991 Twins/Braves, 2002 Angels/Giants, etc.

Some of those series went the full distance, but Game 7 is remembered the most.

Hockey is completely the opposite. Quite often Game 6 is forgotten and placed well behind Game 7. The greatest hockey moments happened in Game 7 while in Baseball it is Game 6. Not to say the opposite can't happen. In Baseball you have Game 7 heroics with Bill Maseroski in 1960, Aaron Boone in 2003, etc. But there are far more memorable Game 6 moments.

Hockey is littered with Game 7 moments and there are several times when people forget other parts of the series other than that one game. Without looking, who won Games 1-6 in order in the Vancouver/Calgary series of 1989? Just saying.

Anyway, anyone willing to give it a crack as to why this is? Perhaps it is just a mere coincidence? When I come up with a good theory, I'll post it.

Sounds like you are cherry picking to prove a point. Look at 2001 game 7, probably most famous world series game ever? The 2002 Angels emotional comeback in game 7 against Barry Bonds, or 2011 the Cardinals?

mrhockey193195 10-24-2013 05:25 PM

I think at first glance, you might say that baseball has more famous game 6s and hockey has more famous game 7s. But if you look a little deeper, I really don't think it's the case. There have been plenty of extraordinary game 6s in hockey, as already mentioned. And think about 2003 Sox-Yankees, 2006 Cardinals-Mets, 2001 Yankees-Diamondbacks...just a few recent game 7s that popped into my head.

JordanStaal#1Fan 10-24-2013 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrhockey193195 (Post 73164335)
I think at first glance, you might say that baseball has more famous game 6s and hockey has more famous game 7s. But if you look a little deeper, I really don't think it's the case. There have been plenty of extraordinary game 6s in hockey, as already mentioned. And think about 2004 Sox-Yankees, 2006 Cardinals-Mets, 2001 Yankees-Diamondbacks...just a few recent game 7s that popped into my head.

Games 4-5 and 6 of the 2004 ALCS are more memorable than game 7. Game 7 was done early when Damon hit that grand slam. Games 4 and 5 needed extras (if I remember correctly) and game 6 was the Schilling game. In 03, game seven was memorable: Grady Liddle left Pedro on the mount for too long and the Yanks came back then Aaron Boone hit that homerun off the "MVP-to-that-point" of that series Tim Wakefield.

mrhockey193195 10-24-2013 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JordanStaal#1Fan (Post 73165061)
Games 4-5 and 6 of the 2004 ALCS are more memorable than game 7. Game 7 was done early when Damon hit that grand slam. Games 4 and 5 needed extras (if I remember correctly) and game 6 was the Schilling game. In 03, game seven was memorable: Grady Liddle left Pedro on the mount for two long and the Yanks came back then Aaron Boone hit that homerun off the "MVP-to-that-point" of that series Tim Wakefield.

Sorry, meant 2003. Thanks for catching that.

Big Phil 10-24-2013 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mats86 (Post 73140163)
Sounds like you are cherry picking to prove a point. Look at 2001 game 7, probably most famous world series game ever? The 2002 Angels emotional comeback in game 7 against Barry Bonds, or 2011 the Cardinals?

The Cardinals/Rangers in 2011 had that classic see saw battle in Game 6 where the Cards were one strike away from being eliminated - twice. Nelson Cruz coming inches away from catching that difficult fly ball that would have been the final out and had Texas win the World Series. Then Game 7 nothing special. Angels/Giants Game 6 - not 7 - was the come from behind win. Game 7 was nothing special.

Look, it is obvious that Game 6 is played at least twice as much as Game 7 in any sport. There is no doubt some classic moments in both sports in both games. But I took all of that into context when coming up with this thread. The difference for me is the seemingly lopsided aura of Game 6 in Baseball as opposed to hockey. Game 6 in other words seems to have an aura in Baseball reserved for Game 7 in hockey.

The best point I believe I saw was the fact that there is a team facing elimination and will sometimes use their best pitcher even out of rotation in order to force a Game 7. That can lead to a classic game for sure.

But what I notice about Baseball is how often Game 7 is forgotten after a classic Game 6. How many classic moments in hockey happened in Game 6 and overshadowed Game 7? Not many. But in Baseball this isn't the case. More often than normal you see the flagship moment of the series in Game 6. Observe:

Steve Bartman in 2003. Carlton Fisk in 1975. Don Denkinger's horrible call in 1985. Bill Buckner in 1986. Dave Henderson in 1986 (although that was Game 5). Kirby Puckett in 1991 (although it is true Morris' Game 7 was memorable, but perhaps overshadowed). Angels comeback in 2002. Curt Shillings bloody sock in 2004.

All of those moments happened in Game 6, and all of them featured a Game 7 that most of us couldn't even describe. I mean, the Red Sox lost in 1975! But on any top 10 list of Baseball's greatest moment you'll see Fisk's homerun.

Anyway, nothing earth shattering, just an observation that is worth a debate, I felt.

LeBlondeDemon10 10-30-2013 01:06 PM

Here you go BP. Your theory has been vindicated.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/99...orious-history


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