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-   -   Proposal: Col - tor (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1524579)

marty111 10-26-2013 01:03 PM

Col - tor
 
:leafs
TO TORONTO:
F - Paul Sastny

:avs
TO COLORADO:
D - Jake Gardiner
D - John Micheal Liles

Works cap wise. Leafs can look at moving Bozak simultaneously. Avs can either buyout Liles or move him next year when his contract might be more palatable.

Sarcastic 10-26-2013 01:05 PM

This is a new and revolutionary idea. Very fair.

Double Dion 10-26-2013 01:06 PM

Why would the Leafs give up Gardiner to get rid of a cap problem if they're taking on an even bigger cap problem in Stastny? I suppose the difference in years left makes up some of the difference, but giving up Gardiner to do it?

sparxx87 10-26-2013 01:08 PM

Why?

Stastny isn't a number 1 centre.


The Leafs need a top centre and a top D man. Mediocre players don't help.


And I wouldn't trade Gardiner for an impending UFA either, even if it gets Liles out of Toronto.

ColoradoAvs 10-26-2013 01:09 PM

As long as they have Bozak they don't need Stastny. Unless the Leafs plan on paying Bozak like 4.25 million to play on the third line

Pure 10-26-2013 01:12 PM

No thanks. Stastny has been great this year, producing points while sheltering Nate's line. We're not breaking up our top 9 forwards right now. Love Gardiner's upside but he isn't going to help our D that much this year, at least not as much as Stastny helps. Gardiner isn't solid enough in his own zone that pat would trust to play him big minutes.

Avs44 10-26-2013 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Dion (Post 73265117)
Why would the Leafs give up Gardiner to get rid of a cap problem if they're taking on an even bigger cap problem in Stastny? I suppose the difference in years left makes up some of the difference, but giving up Gardiner to do it?

Does your phone get alerts or something every time a thread involving Stastny pops up? Your obsession with him is both hilarious and disturbing.

Pierce Hawthorne 10-26-2013 01:16 PM

Easy no for the Avs.

Stastny has been incredible for us this year.

Don't want to take on Liles contract at all.

Nazemlupul 10-26-2013 01:19 PM

No thanks, our offence is fine. We need to look to upgrade our d and try and trade Gardiner in a package for a number 2 right handed dman.

sparxx87 10-26-2013 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pure (Post 73265345)
No thanks. Stastny has been great this year, producing points while sheltering Nate's line. We're not breaking up our top 9 forwards right now. Love Gardiner's upside but he isn't going to help our D that much this year, at least not as much as Stastny helps. Gardiner isn't solid enough in his own zone that pat would trust to play him big minutes.

I'd argue otherwise. Andre Benoit is averaging over 20 minutes... Gardiner would have no problem displacing him at both ends of the rink.

Regardless, Leafs say no. Not losing Gardiner for Paul freakin Stastny.

Lonewolfe2015 10-26-2013 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne (Post 73265555)
Easy no for the Avs.

Stastny has been incredible for us this year.

Don't want to take on Liles contract at all.

Not really an easy no, at all.

Gardiner would be a welcome addition. But the reality is that Stastny is playing a very important role on our team and MacKinnon is not ready to handle those minutes nor do we want to separate ROR-Duchy.

This is a well thought out proposal and very fair for Stastny, but at this point the Avs should be looking to retain his services to help insulate MacKinnon as he develops and to enable us to continue to roll three scoring lines against the other teams.

Stastny's line has been very good, the only thing holding them back is the Tanguay-Stastny overpassing phenomena where both of them are playing hot potato and forget to shoot. Landeskog has had a few opportunities roll of his stick and they're all producing at a 55-60 point pace on the 2nd line. We're actually averaging 70 points on our top line, 55 on our second and 52 points on our third with our 2nd line getting shutdown minutes and our 3rd getting sheltered defensively.

We'd also need to send a contract back, I believe we're at 48 or 49 right now. So either Hunwick could be your new buried contract in the AHL or Wilson if you wanted another defender for the NHL.

Pure 10-26-2013 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparxx87 (Post 73265719)
I'd argue otherwise. Andre Benoit is averaging over 20 minutes... Gardiner would have no problem displacing him at both ends of the rink.

Regardless, Leafs say no. Not losing Gardiner for Paul freakin Stastny.

Gardiner wouldn't play over Andre Benoit with the way he is playing at the moment. He is almost mistake free and still has a strong first pass. Gardiner would be getting the Barrie treatment. Offense not made up by making too many mistakes and weak in front of the net.

Regardless, the Avs are playing strong hockey and don't need to make a major move for Jake Gardiner lol.

cgf 10-26-2013 01:27 PM

Paul would get Kessel to 50 goals and put up at least 70 playing on a top line with him, and that would be awesome to see, but if the Avs can re-sign Staz I'd rather do that. We have the raw young talent in place to become contenders, but we need the right vets around those kids and Staz was a huge part of helping make things easier on Duchene, then O'Reilly, and now MacKinnon, and that's huge for us, even if Gardiner would be another excellent young defensive prospect for us to have.

If Paul asked for the trade I'd be in favor of it as Gardiner is a wonderful young talent that's better than your average rental 1st, even if Liles sucks and his contract sucks even more. But if Staz is open to re-signing for somewhere between Landeskog and Duchene money, I'd really love to keep him and try and plug our defense with a vet we can get for our first and a prospect or guy like Wilson, until our prospects on d are ready.

AlMo 10-26-2013 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marty111 (Post 73265003)
:leafs
TO TORONTO:
F - Paul Sastny

:avs
TO COLORADO:
D - Jake Gardiner
D - John Micheal Liles

Works cap wise. Leafs can look at moving Bozak simultaneously. Avs can either buyout Liles or move him next year when his contract might be more palatable.

No thanks from a Leafs POV. IMO, the Stastny ship has sailed and people need to give it up already.

Pierce Hawthorne 10-26-2013 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 (Post 73265821)
Not really an easy no, at all.

Gardiner would be a welcome addition. But the reality is that Stastny is playing a very important role on our team and MacKinnon is not ready to handle those minutes nor do we want to separate ROR-Duchy.

This is a well thought out proposal and very fair for Stastny, but at this point the Avs should be looking to retain his services to help insulate MacKinnon as he develops and to enable us to continue to roll three scoring lines against the other teams.

Stastny's line has been very good, the only thing holding them back is the Tanguay-Stastny overpassing phenomena where both of them are playing hot potato and forget to shoot. Landeskog has had a few opportunities roll of his stick and they're all producing at a 55-60 point pace on the 2nd line. We're actually averaging 70 points on our top line, 55 on our second and 52 points on our third with our 2nd line getting shutdown minutes and our 3rd getting sheltered defensively.

We'd also need to send a contract back, I believe we're at 48 or 49 right now. So either Hunwick could be your new buried contract in the AHL or Wilson if you wanted another defender for the NHL.

Still an easy no.

Avs44 10-26-2013 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne (Post 73266139)
Still an easy no.

Not an easy no at all. I would absolutely love to have Gardiner here. I would probably say no since I feel Stastny is too important to part with right now and the fact that I want Liles nowhere close to the Avs, but it's definitely fair in terms of value. It's more than fair.

cgf 10-26-2013 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne (Post 73266139)
Still an easy no.

If Paul is open to re-signing for less than Duchene makes, otherwise we're looking at him walking and this is quite a bit more appealing than your typical rental offer.

seancolorado 10-26-2013 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparxx87 (Post 73265193)
Why?

Stastny isn't a number 1 centre.


The Leafs need a top centre and a top D man. Mediocre players don't help.


And I wouldn't trade Gardiner for an impending UFA either, even if it gets Liles out of Toronto.

I hope you're not implying that Stastny is "mediocre." The Avs wouldn't have a 9-1 record if not for Stastny. He's been huge against the opposition's top lines this year

Freudian 10-26-2013 01:39 PM

Strange how Stastny has managed to become one of the more underrated players in the league. You often see HF posters, who doesn't have a clue about him, say he's a third line center, soft, floater or as in this thread mediocre.

I guess it's the curse of the big contract that makes people say silly things.

Larry Hoover 10-26-2013 01:43 PM

If the Leafs hadn't signed Bozak to that deal I would be very interested in Stastny. I think he would be the perfect fit for the Kessel & JvR line. He's a lot like Bozak, just better in most ways and also a left which would benefit Kessel.

Personally, I think JvR-Stastny-Kessel should be a line in the olympics. I think the Leafs would say no, the Avs would say yes (if they don't think they can re-sign Stastny) but value wise it's a good deal. If Bozak weren't on the Leafs I would say yes.

cgf 10-26-2013 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Hoover (Post 73266661)
If the Leafs hadn't signed Bozak to that deal I would be very interested in Stastny. I think he would be the perfect fit for the Kessel & JvR line. He's a lot like Bozak, just better in most ways and also a left which would benefit Kessel.

Personally, I think JvR-Stastny-Kessel should be a line in the olympics. I think the Leafs would say no, the Avs would say yes (if they don't think they can re-sign Stastny) but value wise it's a good deal. If Bozak weren't on the Leafs I would say yes.

If you get him at the deadline you can move Bozak over the summer once you lock up an extension with Staz. If Paul wants to move on to a team where he gets to be the guy centering the top scoring Toronto makes a lot of sense, I just hope he's happy with where he is and wants to stick around for the results off all the tanking and struggle that's gone into colorado's rebuild.

marty111 10-26-2013 01:54 PM

So AVS fans say "maybe but not now".

Leaf fans say "no but a few might agree".

I think the question for AVS fans is what is Stastny's future with their team? - but I can understand if he's currently a big part of their team to start the season.

For Leafs fans, what is the value of Bozak on the trade market? Perhaps it could be more palatable than they expect. I think he's a top 6 center even though many think he's just a 3rd liner. Maybe Vancouver would look at him if Kesler plays wing more often for them?

I can't see how Stastny wouldn't make the Leafs a better team.

JVR - Stastny - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Clarkson
McClement - Bolland - Kulemin

Is a solid top 9. And Gardiner brings the AVS a LHD Top 4 D with upside.

Maybe it's just the timing...

Avs71 10-26-2013 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freudian (Post 73266529)
Strange how Stastny has managed to become one of the more underrated players in the league. You often see HF posters, who doesn't have a clue about him, say he's a third line center, soft, floater or as in this thread mediocre.

I guess it's the curse of the big contract that makes people say silly things.

If Stastny leaves Colorado and ends up signing for anywhere around 5 million, all of a sudden he will be a great player again. Same thing happened with Bouwmeester. Now that he is on the Blues with a better contract, suddenly everyone loves him again.

Avs can't afford to move Stastny, but Jake Gardiner is very tempting. Before the season started, I would have loved to have seen a Gardiner-EJ pairing, but Hejda-EJ has been tremendous, and I don't see it being broken up. I'd rather keep Stastny at the moment, continue to shelter MacKinnon, and see where the the Avs current top 9 can take them.

firstemperor 10-26-2013 02:06 PM

Why would we give up Gardiner for a rental that we might not be able to extend because of inherent raises/other FA's we need to deal with on the team?. However, this only works if they take Liles too, from a cap perspective.

Personally, no thanks.

EscapeGoat 10-26-2013 02:08 PM

No thanks. If someone has a 6.6M cap hit, they better be producing at a near elite clip.


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