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-   -   Luke Schenn (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1525869)

kjbhockey 10-28-2013 10:03 AM

Luke Schenn
 
I have to saw after watching every game this year this guy looks completely lost. Dreger's article may have been dead on when he quoted an internal source that stated they were worried if Luke can even play anymore. He is a turnover machine. Anytime there is some resemblance of a forecheck he panics and turns the puck. I'm not talking throwing the puck of the boards a la Ryan Parent style but right up the middle or a muffin around the wall the creates scoring chances. People keep on saying "He's young", or "He'll figure it out". He's got 5 seasons under his belt at this point. I don't think a tiger can change it stripes this late in the game. We essentially gave up a top six forward with speed and size for a 6th defensemen. Just look at his minutes. They are hiding him. I'd love to hear other fans thoughts on him.

JDinkalage Morgoone 10-28-2013 10:04 AM

A 23 year old tiger can't change his stripes and become a better player? That's insane.


I also disagree on your opinion of his play.

Hiesenberg 10-28-2013 10:08 AM

Schenn is a shut down guy, if the team needs goals or has a small lead, he won't be out there. Look at Sat. They had a big lead, Schenn got 18+ mins, I think the most all year, but it was also the first game they had a multi-goal lead going into the 3rd period or at least late into the 3rd.

Flyersfan731 10-28-2013 10:10 AM

U know I see the same thing but I hope he gets it together cuz imagine what he was supposed to be

Beef Invictus 10-28-2013 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiesenberg (Post 73382711)
Schenn is a shut down guy, if the team needs goals or has a small lead, he won't be out there. Look at Sat. They had a big lead, Schenn got 18+ mins, I think the most all year, but it was also the first game they had a multi-goal lead going into the 3rd period or at least late into the 3rd.

This. And the team has been in desperate need of goals all season.

JDinkalage Morgoone 10-28-2013 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiesenberg (Post 73382711)
Schenn is a shut down guy, if the team needs goals or has a small lead, he won't be out there. Look at Sat. They had a big lead, Schenn got 18+ mins, I think the most all year, but it was also the first game they had a multi-goal lead going into the 3rd period or at least late into the 3rd.

Yes yes yes yes yes. Thank you. He won't play big minutes if the team isn't scoring. He's there to shut down the other team. No one realizes this!

FlyersFanz 10-28-2013 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone (Post 73382579)
A 23 year old tiger can't change his stripes and become a better player? That's insane.


I also disagree on your opinion of his play.

Great point...Schenn is only 23 in a league that Dmen hit their prime around 27 yrs old, he's still learning and give him time.

DrinkFightFlyers 10-28-2013 10:32 AM

Schenn is fine. He wasn't brought in to be a flashy, light it up type of player. He's a shutdown guy. He contributes in ways the stat sheet doesn't see (and in ways most fans don't see). He's not a Norris Trophy guy now (and probably never will be), but he's a solid defender right now, and should only get better.

Curufinwe 10-28-2013 11:04 AM

LSchenn was 2nd on the team in minutes last year. He's not going to be 6th amongst defensemen forever.

He also has a great wrist shot.

LegionOfDoom91 10-28-2013 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curufinwe (Post 73384951)
He also has a great wrist shot.

Unfortunately he's often too reluctant to shoot the puck even when he has great opportunities to do so.

whatthef 10-28-2013 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiesenberg (Post 73382711)
Schenn is a shut down guy, if the team needs goals or has a small lead, he won't be out there. Look at Sat. They had a big lead, Schenn got 18+ mins, I think the most all year, but it was also the first game they had a multi-goal lead going into the 3rd period or at least late into the 3rd.

I agree with this in why his ice time is low. But I also don't think that highly of him. I don't think as badly of him as the OP, but for a defensive defenseman he's not that good defensively and makes too many dumb decisions with the puck.

Jtown 10-28-2013 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiesenberg (Post 73382711)
Schenn is a shut down guy, if the team needs goals or has a small lead, he won't be out there. Look at Sat. They had a big lead, Schenn got 18+ mins, I think the most all year, but it was also the first game they had a multi-goal lead going into the 3rd period or at least late into the 3rd.

Substitute Grossman for Schenn. Then compare TOI stats. Grossman is and will only ever be a shutdown dman. Yet He plays more minutes than Schenn.

Hiesenberg 10-28-2013 11:37 AM

My point is that's why Schenn's ice time is so low, until recently the Flyers have been losing or down. Schenn will not get ice time that way

Appleyard 10-28-2013 11:38 AM

All this talk of Schenn and his ceiling as a shut down D man. (insinuating 10-15 points and playing #5 really...)

While I agree he is better at the defensive aspects of the game, he really is not too ineffective in terms of point production.

Over the last 5 years him and Coburn have been almost identical in PPG, and 1 and a half of those years Coburn was getting extensive PP time.

I like Coburn, but he is not going to live up to his potential that his athleticism showed, that 36 point season was 6 years ago now, and he has not really shown he can replicate it.

Schenn gets 20-25 points (factored) pretty consistently with minimal PP time and average skating, and he can pass the puck out and shoot while being sound defensively.

Last 5 years:

Coburn: 367 GP 94P
Schenn: 367 GP 87P


If his skating could get that bit better I can honestly imagine him hovering in the high 20's for points on average.

I think due to the average skating people don't see that he is actually pretty decent with the puck on his stick, as he does not have those crazily nice rushes that Coburn will do once every 10 games that make everyone sit up and think he is better offensively than he is.

FlyersFanz 10-28-2013 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 (Post 73385141)
Unfortunately he's often too reluctant to shoot the puck even when he has great opportunities to do so.

Schenn ain't the only one on this team.....Giroux?

Hiesenberg 10-28-2013 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Appleyard (Post 73386321)
All this talk of Schenn and his ceiling as a shut down D man. (insinuating 10-15 points and playing #5 really...)

While I agree he is better at the defensive aspects of the game, he really is not too ineffective in terms of point production.

Over the last 5 years him and Coburn have been almost identical in PPG, and 1 and a half of those years Coburn was getting extensive PP time.

I like Coburn, but he is not going to live up to his potential that his athleticism showed, that 36 point season was 6 years ago now, and he has not really shown he can replicate it.

Schenn gets 20-25 points (factored) pretty consistently with minimal PP time and average skating, and he can pass the puck out and shoot while being sound defensively.

Last 5 years:

Coburn: 367 GP 94P
Schenn: 367 GP 87P


If his skating could get that bit better I can honestly imagine him hovering in the high 20's for points on average.

I think due to the average skating people don't see that he is actually pretty decent with the puck on his stick, as he does not have those crazily nice rushes that Coburn will do once every 10 games that make everyone sit up and think he is better offensively than he is.

I think the more important part of that stat is Coburn (28), Schenn (23)

zarley zelepukin 10-28-2013 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjbhockey (Post 73382557)
I have to saw after watching every game this year this guy looks completely lost. Dreger's article may have been dead on when he quoted an internal source that stated they were worried if Luke can even play anymore. He is a turnover machine. Anytime there is some resemblance of a forecheck he panics and turns the puck. I'm not talking throwing the puck of the boards a la Ryan Parent style but right up the middle or a muffin around the wall the creates scoring chances. People keep on saying "He's young", or "He'll figure it out". He's got 5 seasons under his belt at this point. I don't think a tiger can change it stripes this late in the game. We essentially gave up a top six forward with speed and size for a 6th defensemen. Just look at his minutes. They are hiding him. I'd love to hear other fans thoughts on him.

That's what people said about JVR. I wasn't a big fan of the trade but it's dumb to write off Schenn at his age. Just because a guy starts in the NHL at a young age doesn't necessarily mean he'll reach his ceiling sooner than a guy who spends more time as an amateur, it just means his game was more developed or more suitable for the NHL sooner.

Appleyard 10-28-2013 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiesenberg (Post 73386913)
I think the more important part of that stat is Coburn (28), Schenn (23)

Yep, Schenn has put up similar numbers to Coburn from the age of 18-23 as Coburn age 23-28, and also Schenn has played a heck of a lot less minutes over that time (admittedly due to his inconsistency... he has had 3 years where he was a 22 minute, 20-25 point D man and 2 years where he was a 16-18 minute, 15 point D man.) A lot of D men don't get in the league until they are 22-24.

If Schenn can play as he did last year, 3 years ago or his first year in the league consistently, 22+ minutes a night, 25 point while being very solid in his own end, that is a pretty damn valuable asset to have on your blueline when his age is considered, guys like that also don't cost the world, but contribute.

kjbhockey 10-28-2013 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyersFanz (Post 73383179)
Great point...Schenn is only 23 in a league that Dmen hit their prime around 27 yrs old, he's still learning and give him time.

He needs to work on his foot speed and decision making. Right now, both of those are awful. So the consensus here is to only deploy him when we have a lead and protect him when we don't? What kind of thinking is that? He should be able to handle all situations.

Flyerfan4life 10-28-2013 12:12 PM

weird.. i dont have a problem with Lukes body of work since arriving.

and i dont miss JVR so im still happy with the trade.

now if you were mentioning Coburn. now that i will agree is a problem player

Legion of Gloom 10-28-2013 12:24 PM

.
I am a big fan of Luke, then again i also like Coburn

Protest 10-28-2013 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone (Post 73382579)
A 23 year old tiger can't change his stripes

1) That's like 100 in cat years.

2) No, he can't. He doesn't have the technology or the steady hands to pull off a procedure like that.

Stizzle 10-28-2013 12:29 PM

I don't get the Luke bashing. He was really strong last year, especially in the second half. This year he hasn't stood out so far, but few people have on the entire team. To say he has been bad or has turned the puck over a lot is just a big exaggeration.

Appleyard 10-28-2013 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjbhockey (Post 73387441)
He needs to work on his foot speed and decision making. Right now, both of those are awful. So the consensus here is to only deploy him when we have a lead and protect him when we don't? What kind of thinking is that? He should be able to handle all situations.

His foot speed needs work... his decision making, especially defensively and on outlets is ok.

Ottawa don't put out Karlsson when they are a few goals up as much as they usually do, ditto Pitt with Letang, Campbell in Florida.

Players have different roles.

The Flyers have needed goals almost exclusively all year, so it is natural guys who have more potential offence play more.

Kimmo, Streit, Coburn and Gus lead in minutes on D, which reflects that really (Coburn is getting 2 less minutes than he has been in the last few years.) Schenn has been underplayed still though, but his minutes being down are understandable... just not by that much.

There are not many guys that play all situations up and down the league. (1st unit PK, 1st unit PP, 23+ mins a night.)

Chara, Keith, Seabrook, Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo, Ekman-Larsson and Subban are pretty much the only guys in the league who play all situations.

That is why those guys are considered to be the best D men in the NHL... and would cost any team wanting one of them an arm and a leg.

(Well, Dion Phaneuf and Kronvall I am sure do as well... and Kimmo a few years back, but they are a cut below really.)

Beef Invictus 10-28-2013 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiesenberg (Post 73386913)
I think the more important part of that stat is Coburn (28), Schenn (23)

Also, Coburn spending a lot of that time on a very good playoff team with good offense, and Schenn spending it on a trainwreck.*



*While being told to play like a flamingo and with blindness in one eye :laugh:


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