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-   -   Rebuild/youth movement (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1526293)

theFiGS 10-28-2013 10:43 PM

Rebuild/youth movement
 
After watching this game I'm starting to buy into the rebuild BUT I don't believe we need to go into a losing tanking full on rebuild. Replacing certain "dead weight" will possibly make this team better this year and for the future. Call up kristo lindberg mcilrith and keep kreider miller and fast with the team. Sell all the aging dead weight for picks prospects and go with the youth movement. This team will not be much worse and we finally get to see a young hungry energetic team play every night.
Kreider stepan richards
Hagelin brassard Callahan
Fast miller zucc/kristo
Mash/Boyle/yogan/jean/dorsett
McD Moore
?? ??
?? Mcilrith

Boyle,staal,Girardi,mdz,pouliot,pyatt,dorsett,stra lman, and others that I'm missing should all be on the block for youth and 1st and 2nd rounders. What's left over you either bring back or move on, most of these players do not fit AVs system but the youth can be molded into what he's looking for with playing time. I like staal Boyle Girardi but they can be replaced, one of staal or Girardi will walk over the next 2 years we need to get something for them and mdz is still young enough that a team will take a chance on him I just don't see him making a difference in NY. This is not an overreacting post since I didn't think we'd win tonight before the game started it's just what I see and curious what the rest of you guys think

Raspewtin 10-28-2013 10:46 PM

You can't be serious.

Blueshirt Believer 10-28-2013 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raspewtin (Post 73423075)
You can't be serious.

He is not wrong, but I think he is a little nutty for wanting to dump Staal. Staal is not easily replaceable...

theFiGS 10-28-2013 10:51 PM

100% serious. I think this team is going down a bad road we need to start adding picks for guys like pyatt Boyle and pouliot. Staal or Girardi will walk soon so why not get something in return? Maybe my lineup is overboard but this team needs a lot of help. I could be horribly wrong and hopefully it turns around when hags and Callahan get back I just don't wanna lose players and get nothing to build on for the future

theFiGS 10-28-2013 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer (Post 73423399)
He is not wrong, but I think he is a little nutty for wanting to dump Staal. Staal is not easily replaceable...

I should of added I don't wanna dump staal, I just don't wanna see him walk away for nothing in return. I'd love to lock him up I just don't think it will happen, I'd trade Girardi and MDZ before moving staal

Blueshirt Believer 10-28-2013 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theFiGS (Post 73423665)
I should of added I don't wanna dump staal, I just don't wanna see him walk away for nothing in return. I'd love to lock him up I just don't think it will happen, I'd trade Girardi and MDZ before moving staal

I don't think Staal is going anywhere. He is here for the long haul…

I would rather trade Cally than Staal and I don't wanna trade Cally...

Krampus 10-28-2013 11:14 PM

These kids may be winning games in the AHL, but they're by no means dominating.
I can't believe anyone would seriously think that having them as our whole bottom six would be a good idea.

Championship* 10-28-2013 11:14 PM

Team is long overdue for an overhaul.

segmentation fault 10-28-2013 11:19 PM

The youth doesnt look that good either. We need a lottery pick or 2.

smoneil 10-28-2013 11:51 PM

If you rebuild, you do it closer to the deadline to maximize value (and make sure this isn't just a slow start--2011/12 didn't start out all sugarplums and fairy dust either, if you'll remember).

The key thing is, if they get to the deadline and decide to re-build, they have to do it 100% No half-assed rebuild. No moving a couple of guys. DEFINITELY no moving promising players under 24 (that's not "rebuilding." A rebuild involves moving vets for youth, not moving proven youth for more lottery tickets--ie draft picks).

You keep the kids (Kreider, Fast, Miller and the guys in the A), and the young vets (Stepan, MDZ, Moore, McD and maybe Hagelin). You probably have to keep Richards as well, due to cap recapture.

You move everything else for max value. Cally? Staal? Lundqvist? Great players, but by the time the draft picks and prospects turn into quality NHL players, these guys are going to be on their way out. Plus, those are the pieces that will get you blue chip returns. At the deadline, you can get 1st/2nd round picks for guys like Stralman, Boyle, and Hagelin. You can get a 1st and a nice prospect for guys like Girardi. It's guys like Cally, Staal, Nash and Lundqvist who will stock up your cupboard for a dynamite team.

DudMan28 10-28-2013 11:54 PM

The biggest problem was the 11-12 season lead management to believe this team was that close to winning a cup. Sure, we came close that year, but was our roster really built to contend every year for the next 5 years? No, it wasn't. This is still a younger team than most people think. Were still a few pieces away. I don't think we really need a full rebuild, just a little more patience.

profchaos2001 10-28-2013 11:57 PM

>leaving richards on the team taking up 7 mil in cap space for the next 7 years

>where is nash in this?

THE DEFENSE IS FINE. Since when is giving up 2 goals a game the time to blow up the defense?! Why cant we score a goal for our home opener against a back up goalie? with like 5 powerplays?

dmjt4160 10-28-2013 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoneil (Post 73427701)
You move everything else for max value. Cally? Staal? Lundqvist? Great players, but by the time the draft picks and prospects turn into quality NHL players, these guys are going to be on their way out. Plus, those are the pieces that will get you blue chip returns. At the deadline, you can get 1st/2nd round picks for guys like Stralman, Boyle, and Hagelin. You can get a 1st and a nice prospect for guys like Girardi. It's guys like Cally, Staal, Nash and Lundqvist who will stock up your cupboard for a dynamite team.

Trade your top 4 players for picks and prospects who you hope a few years down the road might be better than said top 4 players?

/hfboards after home opener loss

Cake or Death 10-28-2013 11:59 PM

There is a time and a place for re-building a team, and I don't think either of those exist while Sather is at the helm.

haveandare 10-29-2013 12:05 AM

That lineup will "not be much worse" than this one could be when everyone is back? I strongly disagree with that. That lineup has McD as the only top 4 defenseman and a bottom 6 made up of players that likely aren't ready for this league. That team would get killed. The current Ranger lineup is pretty young. They need to see what this lineup can do once they get some important forwards back before they make any knee-jerk decisions, especially something like this, which would guarantee absolute failure for a while.

DutchShamrock 10-29-2013 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cake or Death (Post 73428105)
There is a time and a place for re-building a team, and I don't think either of those exist while Sather is at the helm.

End of story here. Again, I point to Holmgren in philly. Fire laviolette, trade Richards, carter, jvm, bobrovsky, etc... Worse and worse and worse.

And honestly, do you really want Sather heading another fire sale? Holy crap the last one was bad.

smoneil 10-29-2013 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmjt4160 (Post 73428025)
Trade your top 4 players for picks and prospects who you hope a few years down the road might be better than said top 4 players?

/hfboards after home opener loss

Did you not read the first part of my post, where I specifically mentioned the reasons why this wouldn't be done until closer to the deadline? Or did you just ignore it because that would ruin your chance to be all snarky and such?

If this team is well out of the playoffs by the deadline, then a decision needs to be made. We have a LOT of players coming up for new contracts. This time next year? If the team still sucks, we suddenly have far fewer top assets to spin off into a rebuild movement. Guys like Girardi, Callahan and Lundy can bring us back top coin. If (and only if) the team seems to be going nowhere with those players, it makes more sense to move them at the deadline. Next year, they will either be gone (for nothing in return) or signed to long, lucrative contracts that will immensely lower their trade value (if the team continues to suck).

But sure, let's trade a couple of early 20 something players for more vets and hope that THIS time, the result will be different. #late90slogic :shakehead

dmjt4160 10-29-2013 01:07 AM

I dont care what our record is trading away Callahan, Staal ,Lundqvist, Nash, Hagelin at the deadline is not a strategy rooted in any type of reality. It sounds like something I would do if I got bored with my Be A GM mode.

JHS 10-29-2013 06:52 AM

I'm not sure the youth movement is the way forward. Aside from Krieder, Miller, Stephan, Hagelin, McD, it seems like we don't have much left in the system. I think the bigger question is what would a rebuild look like? The deal is this, our composition of our roster in terms of salary is very skewed. We have a ton of money invested into our goalie( who will inevitably ask for more after this season,) money invested in top d men and money invested in two underperforming top players, Nash and Richards. Our roster than takes a dramatic free fall especially in terms of forwards, down to the level of the Brian Boyle's of the world. Simply put, major decisions have to be made about the philosophical approach to making this team a contender. You can't invest a large sum of the salary cap space into your goaltender and your defense and then be surprised why you can't score goals, when you are employing some real bad forwards as a result of the decision to invest money into preventing the other team from scoring more than investing money in the Rangers scoring. The real question is, has the current philosophy worked well enough to continue it forward? It's a tough call but a very important one.

White Plains Batman 10-29-2013 06:57 AM

They're going to have to restock the system sooner rather than later.

What if all of Henrik/Cally/G and then Staal leave?

They have the two Swedes, Kristo, McLIrath, and Allen in the minors who all can hopefully take full-time spots over the next year.

Skjei, Nieves, Duclair, and Buchnevich will all hopefully be here in two years but that's 2015-16 at earliest.

They may stink so bad this year that they get some high picks anyways.

True Blue 10-29-2013 08:47 AM

Only a few years ago, this was one of the youngest, hardest working teams in the league. And now I see threads of a rebuild & youth movement?

SingnBluesOnBroadway 10-29-2013 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue (Post 73437345)
Only a few years ago, this was one of the youngest, hardest working teams in the league. And now I see threads of a rebuild & youth movement?

And where is all the talk of this organization's great depth now?

Punxrocknyc19* 10-29-2013 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Plains Batman (Post 73436083)
They're going to have to restock the system sooner rather than later.

What if all of Henrik/Cally/G and then Staal leave?

They have the two Swedes, Kristo, McLIrath, and Allen in the minors who all can hopefully take full-time spots over the next year.

Skjei, Nieves, Duclair, and Buchnevich will all hopefully be here in two years but that's 2015-16 at earliest.

They may stink so bad this year that they get some high picks anyways.


so they can draft guys like Korpikoski and Montoya to trade them for nothing of value :shakehead

True Blue 10-29-2013 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway (Post 73437921)
And where is all the talk of this organization's great depth now?

This is a trip down memory lane. And not in a good way. Beginning to feel like it's 1998/1997 all over again.

BroadwayBlues 10-29-2013 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudMan28 (Post 73427847)
The biggest problem was the 11-12 season lead management to believe this team was that close to winning a cup. Sure, we came close that year, but was our roster really built to contend every year for the next 5 years? No, it wasn't. This is still a younger team than most people think. Were still a few pieces away. I don't think we really need a full rebuild, just a little more patience.

This is exactly what I've been saying. That run led people to believe this was a win now team. It was a young team that overachieved.

Yeah they need to tank a year or make a key/smart trade. They don't need to tank for years because the cupboard isn't bare.


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