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-   -   Karlsson is 1st in points by defensemen (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1527207)

HSF 10-30-2013 12:35 AM

Karlsson is 1st in points by defensemen
 
It is pretty crazy considering how inconsistent him and the team have been but he somehow caught up to Subban :s
I guess that is a plus.

HavlatMach9 10-30-2013 12:38 AM

he's severely talented, there are other teams who'd beg to get an offensive dman with half his production, while we somehow upgraded from a good first pass dman in Redden to the offensive dman of today

Altimus 10-30-2013 12:49 AM

Karlsson isn't the issue. We count on him to put the numbers up. He needs guidance and we aborted both those players away.

L'Aveuglette 10-30-2013 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altimus (Post 73500333)
Karlsson isn't the issue. We count on him to put the numbers up. He needs guidance and we aborted both those players away.

He's not an issue? Are you kidding me? He's the best player on this team. If he's having issues defensively, that affects the whole roster in a huge way. Sure, Alfie is missed, but he needs to start playing DEFENSE.

WORLDSTARHIPHOP 10-30-2013 01:03 AM

Comical

ReginKarlssonLehner 10-30-2013 01:15 AM

I don't get why some are surprised.

He could easily have 5-6 more points if his team could actually finish his spoon-fed passes.

He is an offensive wizard and could finish his career as one of the greatest offensive defenders of all-time.

When he came back from injury he recorded 13 points in 12 games when with horrible skating. It's his defense that is hindered through insufficient skating ability.

Nordic* 10-30-2013 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner (Post 73501081)
I don't get why some are surprised.

He could easily have 5-6 more points if his team could actually finish his spoon-fed passes.

He is an offensive wizard and could finish his career as one of the greatest offensive defenders of all-time.

When he came back from injury he recorded 13 points in 12 games when with horrible skating. It's his defense that is hindered through insufficient skating ability.

His skating ability is still better than 99% of the defencemen in this league and a lot of them can manage to play good defence anyway. He seems arrogant and needs to come down to earth.

Ghost in the Shell 10-30-2013 06:30 AM

He is amazing offensively, but the lack of effort in the D-zone is just sickening. The Wingels and Toews goals were not goals if he had just skated.

Nac Mac Feegle 10-30-2013 06:38 AM

I would say 99% of the time, I want players who are 200-foot guys. But every once in a while, you get such a pure talent and competitive spirit that you just have let them go. Guys like Ovechkin, Patrick Kane, Karlsson....

They just ooze so much talent and skill it's criminal to chain them up with forcing them to paly a 200 foot game. Sure, it's a pain in the butt for whoever has the task of being the defensive partner or linemate stuck doing the dirty work, but in the end, it's worth it.

These guys are worth the price of admission. Let them loose.

VikingKarlsson 10-30-2013 06:46 AM

Didn't even notice. And I love Karlsson.

NyQuil 10-30-2013 06:56 AM

It was pretty much inevitable.

He's still playing too much and I think it's pretty apparent that it causes breakdowns in his defensive play.

Indrew 10-30-2013 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NyQuil (Post 73504543)
It was pretty much inevitable.

He's still playing too much and I think it's pretty apparent that it causes breakdowns in his defensive play.

Agreed, but the other defensemen aren't giving the coaching staff much choice. The Sens could really use a solid veteran who can play 20 minutes.

sens4life 10-30-2013 07:49 AM

As much as ek65 is producing, is he giving up more points due to defensive mistakes than producing? Last couple of years, I would have argued that he was producing WAY more than points given up to his defensive mistakes.

This year, I'm not so sure.

Curtinho 10-30-2013 07:58 AM

He's not playing too much. His skating is fine going up the ice he is just putting more importance on scoring goals than he is on preventing them. It's that simple. He always seems to find that second gear when he's taking the puck up the ice, but lately his coming back has been slow and he's not paying much attention to his assignments.

He plays 30 minutes a night and he needs to be solid defensively if that is to continue. Corsi, points and all that don't matter when he can't prevent the other team from scoring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sens4life (Post 73505341)
As much as ek65 is producing, is he giving up more points due to defensive mistakes than producing? Last couple of years, I would have argued that he was producing WAY more than points given up to his defensive mistakes.

This year, I'm not so sure.

You are correct. He's allowing 3.05g/60 when he's on the ice and only producing 2.58g/60. Not good enough when the scoring on the team actually goes up when he's not on the ice to 3.17g/60, and the scoring against the team goes down to 2.58g/60...so the notion that he's driving our offence is also misguided. Right now he's hurting the team in a big way.

sens4life 10-30-2013 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cujomi (Post 73505527)
You are correct. He's allowing 3.05g/60 when he's on the ice and only producing 2.58g/60. Not good enough when the scoring on the team actually goes up when he's not on the ice to 3.17g/60, and the scoring against the team goes down to 2.58g/60...so the notion that he's driving our offence is also misguided. Right now he's hurting the team in a big way.

Thanks for the stats...can you provide the same stats for ek65s assists and points?

Curtinho 10-30-2013 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sens4life (Post 73505689)
Thanks for the stats...can you provide the same stats for ek65s assists and points?

I'm not sure what you mean.

Hammertyme 10-30-2013 09:12 AM

If EK doesn't shorten his shifts he's not going to get much better. He has dam near 30 1 minute shifts. He's too tired to play defense. I'd rather see 35 45 second shifts.

NyQuil 10-30-2013 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cujomi (Post 73505527)
You are correct. He's allowing 3.05g/60 when he's on the ice and only producing 2.58g/60. Not good enough when the scoring on the team actually goes up when he's not on the ice to 3.17g/60, and the scoring against the team goes down to 2.58g/60...so the notion that he's driving our offence is also misguided. Right now he's hurting the team in a big way.

What are Spezza's numbers?

Hammertyme 10-30-2013 09:17 AM

Good read.
Stephen M. Roth, a professor in the department of kinesiology at the University of Maryland, explains.

As our bodies perform strenuous exercise, we begin to breathe faster as we attempt to shuttle more oxygen to our working muscles. The body prefers to generate most of its energy using aerobic methods, meaning with oxygen. Some circumstances, however, --such as evading the historical Sabre tooth tiger or lifting heavy weights--require energy production faster than our bodies can adequately deliver oxygen. In those cases, the working muscles generate energy anaerobically. This energy comes from glucose through a process called glycolysis, in which glucose is broken down or metabolized into a substance called pyruvate through a series of steps. When the body has plenty of oxygen, pyruvate is shuttled to an aerobic pathway to be further broken down for more energy. But when oxygen is limited, the body temporarily converts pyruvate into a substance called lactate, which allows glucose breakdown--and thus energy production--to continue. The working muscle cells can continue this type of anaerobic energy production at high rates for one to three minutes, during which time lactate can accumulate to high levels.

A side effect of high lactate levels is an increase in the acidity of the muscle cells, along with disruptions of other metabolites. The same metabolic pathways that permit the breakdown of glucose to energy perform poorly in this acidic environment. On the surface, it seems counterproductive that a working muscle would produce something that would slow its capacity for more work. In reality, this is a natural defense mechanism for the body; it prevents permanent damage during extreme exertion by slowing the key systems needed to maintain muscle contraction. Once the body slows down, oxygen becomes available and lactate reverts back to pyruvate, allowing continued aerobic metabolism and energy for the body's recovery from the strenuous event.

Curtinho 10-30-2013 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NyQuil (Post 73507437)
What are Spezza's numbers?

Not sure how that's relevant to this discussion, but he's at 3.85 g/60 and 5.77 ga/60. Pretty terrible -- though playing less time and spending 64% of his ice-time on with Karlsson certainly isn't helping. He can certainly improve defensively, but I think that if our defence did its job it wouldn't be nearly as bad as the numbers suggest.

exv91 10-30-2013 09:42 AM

Attacking EK or his ice time is a pointless discussion. He is arguably our best player night-in and night-out. We need him and his ice time because all our other Dman on this team suck rotten eggs. Who cares if he has a couple of turnovers, he's creates ten times more offensive opportunities than turnovers in the end. If we had someone who could finish what he offers up offensively, we'd be off to a much better start. I wouldn't be surprised to see EK want to leave one day. We're putting way too much pressure on this guy IMO.

sens4life 10-30-2013 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exv91 (Post 73508415)
Who cares if he has a couple of turnovers, he's creates ten times more offensive opportunities than turnovers in the end.

Um, not true. Not even close. Teh team is statistically better when he's NOT on the ice, both production and goals allowed.

(From Cujomi:)
Karlsson on the ice:
- He produces 2.58g per game
- He allows 3.05g per game

Karlsson not on the ice:
- The team produces 3.17g per game
- The team allows 2.58g per game

Smash88 10-30-2013 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sens4life (Post 73509417)
Um, not true. Not even close. Teh team is statistically better when he's NOT on the ice, both production and goals allowed.

(From Cujomi:)
Karlsson on the ice:
- He produces 2.58g per game
- He allows 3.05g per game

Karlsson not on the ice:
- The team produces 3.17g per game
- The team allows 2.58g per game

How about we do this for the rest of the team?

Karlsson is not the problem on the Sens..

CanadianHockey 10-30-2013 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cujomi (Post 73507625)
Not sure how that's relevant to this discussion, but he's at 3.85 g/60 and 5.77 ga/60. Pretty terrible -- though playing less time and spending 64% of his ice-time on with Karlsson certainly isn't helping. He can certainly improve defensively, but I think that if our defence did its job it wouldn't be nearly as bad as the numbers suggest.

Spezza has worse numbers than Karlsson, and yet you still choose to blame the D for his poor defensive play? You realize centers are supposed to play a pretty big role in team defence?

If Spezza was as defensively competent as you've been arguing, he'd be playing the role of a center in our own end, which would mean he's been a big part of the cluster**** that is our defence.

The team as a whole is playing poor defence. On any given goal, it seems like there are two or three guys making pretty big mistakes that contribute to the scoring opportunity.

tony d 10-30-2013 10:33 AM

Good to see this, still I'd like to see him improve his defensive game. That would make this team better IMO.


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