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-   -   Friedman: (Some) GMs believe that teams should be fined for egregious on ice actions (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1527499)

LadyStanley 10-30-2013 01:02 PM

Friedman: (Some) GMs believe that teams should be fined for egregious on ice actions
 
http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/hoc...iolations.html

Unofficial poll of 8 GMs concludes that league should begin to penalize/fine organizations for egregious on ice actions of players (in addition to their suspensions).

Thinks it may come up at "mid-season" GM meeting.

Quote:

The proposal is in its early stages, but the idea goes something like this: After three suspensions, the coach, GM and organization would also get slapped with a cash penalty. The amount would escalate with each further violation.

There are some things that would have to be addressed. If a player is fined, but not banished from games, does that count? If a player with suspensions is traded, does he carry that to a new team? If a coach is fired, does his replacement start fresh, or inherit the previous total?

MarkGio 10-30-2013 01:11 PM

This is way too ridiculous. How does a GM control what Matt Cooke does on the ice other than the fact that Matt Cooke has the skill to play in the NHL? If he didn't, then sure, a GM would be forced to send him packing.

And again, a coach is not a mind reader. He might send the best possible skillset on the ice, not knowing a player is going to attempt to injure.

GuelphStormer 10-30-2013 01:12 PM

it's a start, but it's only money.

a real change would involve subtracting points from the team's record.

cbcwpg 10-30-2013 01:15 PM

Just increase the suspension and fines to the player. Quadruple ( or whatever it takes ) all suspensions and fines...the problem will solve itself.

The ultimate problem is the NHL is being politically correct in talking about eliminating certain actions from the game, but doesn't have the will or guts to actually do anything about it.

1 game, 2 games, 5 games.... that's a parking ticket to most NHLers.

If I'm in charge..... Head hunting ( just an example ) is now a year suspension and a full year salary fine. Think you will see any more head hunting after that fine is handed out the first time?

Tinalera 10-30-2013 01:35 PM

I'd just like to see a standard.


Elbow to the head? 5 games for first offense. Doubles each occurance. No "intent", no "he turned away", no "he just grazed him"-5 games for an elbow to the head-period.

The problem is that embellishment might ratchet up as well-so I'd go with mandatory player hit doesn't return to the game and is held out a minimum of 1 week (as an example) for "precautionary" reasons. So if you decide to "sell" that headshot, you're sitting for a week, and hurting your team just as much as the guy who head shotted you.

Just how I see it anyway.

htpwn 10-30-2013 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkGio (Post 73517811)
This is way too ridiculous. How does a GM control what Matt Cooke does on the ice other than the fact that Matt Cooke has the skill to play in the NHL? If he didn't, then sure, a GM would be forced to send him packing.

Absolutely. I suspect that this proposal comes from more of the same characters.

Those who rally against fighting and physicality in the game, who build soft, skilled teams and then complain when they get bulldozed by teams like Boston.

Ultimately, if you actually watch these teams built around a tough mentality, they aren't dirty. They play hard, they fight, but they don't rack up a lot of suspensions. When they do get called 'dirty,' it is often because the other team tried to goon it up or be pests, and then got their ass kicked for it.

No GM sets out to build a 'dirty' team. A physical team, yes. But not dirty. Dirty Players like Kaleta or Cooke are also not going to rack up three suspensions alone in the year, so it won't do much to discourage teams from signing them.

Quote:

And again, a coach is not a mind reader. He might send the best possible skillset on the ice, not knowing a player is going to attempt to injure.
Disagree.

Coaches do, and often have, sent out players simply to start trouble.

You saw that in the preseason with Ron Rolton and the Sabres sending out John Scott to fight anybody, who happened to be Phil Kessel. In a preseason game that was all but over. The league in that case fined Rolston and were right in doing so.

You saw John Scott's headshot on Eriksson. Does that happen if Rolston actually uses Scott properly? If you want to dress goons, then they have to play a regular shift. That means 8-9 minutes a night, not 4 or 5. Because otherwise, as Don Cherry said in this past Coaches Corner, they come off the bench saying "I need to something, anything, to make an impact" and there's the result.

Two examples where poor coaching led to two very dirty plays.

Fugu 10-30-2013 01:40 PM

I'm not really sure how this can be implemented, setting aside even the obvious objections that might arise from the NHLPA.

There are instances when teams have been fined for the on-ice actions of players (and indirectly, coaches). Two that come to mind are:

1) Iginla and the Flames being fined for unsportsmanlike conduct in the waning minutes of a playoff game against Detroit
2) The Isles-Pens fight festival

MarkGio 10-30-2013 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htpwn (Post 73519163)
Absolutely. I suspect that this proposal comes from more of the same characters.

Those who rally against fighting and physicality in the game, who build soft, skilled teams and then complain when they get bulldozed by teams like Boston.

Ultimately, if you actually watch these teams built around a tough mentality, they aren't dirty. They play hard, they fight, but they don't rack up a lot of suspensions. When they do get called 'dirty,' it is often because the other team tried to goon it up or be pests, and then got their ass kicked for it.

No GM sets out to build a 'dirty' team. A physical team, yes. But not dirty. Dirty Players like Kaleta or Cooke are also not going to rack up three suspensions alone in the year, so it won't do much to discourage teams from signing them.



Disagree.

Coaches do, and often have, sent out players simply to start trouble.

You saw that in the preseason with Ron Rolton and the Sabres sending out John Scott to fight anybody, who happened to be Phil Kessel. In a preseason game that was all but over. The league in that case fined Rolston and were right in doing so.

You saw John Scott's headshot on Eriksson. Does that happen if Rolston actually uses Scott properly? If you want to dress goons, then they have to play a regular shift. That means 8-9 minutes a night, not 4 or 5. Because otherwise, as Don Cherry said in this past Coaches Corner, they come off the bench saying "I need to something, anything, to make an impact" and there's the result.

Two examples where poor coaching led to two very dirty plays.

Well goons are a different matter. Yes, there's no skill set - only impact. But the actual head shot, knee, hit from behind or any other dirty player is usually a situation that the goon himself often has little control of, let alone the coach. The coach just wanted energy, perhaps a good shift with good possession. Something to tilt the ice.

Betamax* 10-30-2013 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugu (Post 73519301)
I'm not really sure how this can be implemented, setting aside even the obvious objections that might arise from the NHLPA.

There are instances when teams have been fined for the on-ice actions of players (and indirectly, coaches). Two that come to mind are:

1) Iginla and the Flames being fined for unsportsmanlike conduct in the waning minutes of a playoff game against Detroit
2) The Isles-Pens fight festival

Another addition to the list, Bertuzzi / Moore incident which is about as bad as it gets for on-ice "egregious" action:

source: http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1756628

Excerpt:

Quote:

AP - Updated: March 12, 2004, 11:24 AM ET

TORONTO -- Todd Bertuzzi is done for the season, suspended Thursday by an NHL intent on sending the message that it won't tolerate premeditated attacks on the ice.

The Vancouver Canucks' All-Star forward will lose at least $500,000 in salary and could miss more time next season for the vicious punch that sent Colorado's Steve Moore to the hospital with a broken neck, concussion and other injuries.

The Canucks were fined $250,000 for the attack, which is being investigated by police.

"This is not a part of our game, it has no place in our game, and it will not be tolerated in our game," NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said.
So for the most serious incidents, the NHL has stepped in and fined an organization for the actions of their player.

TheDevilMadeMe 10-30-2013 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betamax (Post 73527173)
Another addition to the list, Bertuzzi / Moore incident which is about as bad as it gets for on-ice "egregious" action:

source: http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1756628

Excerpt:



So for the most serious incidents, the NHL has stepped in and fined an organization for the actions of their player.


Bertuzzi more was a special case where the Canucks coaching staff effectively threatened Steve Moore in the media before the incident happened.

Betamax* 10-30-2013 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 73531851)
Bertuzzi more was a special case where the Canucks coaching staff effectively threatened Steve Moore in the media before the incident happened.

In what way?

I remember Coach Crawford ranting that "They got no call" when Moore hit Naslund post game, but I don't recall him tacitly putting a bounty on him. It was Naslund's teammate, Brad May who mentioned the "bounty" reference in a post-game interview.

As an aside, I wonder if that Moore hit on Naslund occurred today, under the climate we have when it comes to the knowledge on the negative effects of concussions and how these type of hits causes not only concussions but retaliation, how many games Moore would have been suspended in an attempt to dissuade future hits and the threat of retaliation.


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