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HF Article 10-30-2013 04:25 PM

Columbus Blue Jackets own enviable depth at all positions
 

The Columbus Blue Jackets are an organization with an extremely deep prospect pool. With names like Boone Jenner, Ryan Murray, Dalton Prout, and David Savard echoing through NHL arenas, it seems as though all of its young talent graduated to the NHL. That is not the case.



The Blue Jackets prospect pool is littered with talented forwards including Kerby Rychel, Oliver Bjorkstrand, Alexander Wennberg, and Marko Dano, all of whom were picked up in this year's draft.

Columbus' biggest problem on defense is having too many prospects. Tim Erixon and Cody Goloubef are waiting to break into the NHL, but they remain in the AHL with Prout, Murray, and Savard already in the NHL.… read more



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slightlystewpid420 10-31-2013 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HF Article (Post 73526737)
The Columbus Blue Jackets are an organization with an extremely deep prospect pool. With names like Boone Jenner, Ryan Murray, Dalton Prout, and David Savard echoing through NHL arenas, it seems as though all of its young talent graduated to the NHL. That is not the case.



The Blue Jackets prospect pool is littered with talented forwards including Kerby Rychel, Oliver Bjorkstrand, Alexander Wennberg, and Marko Dano, all of whom were picked up in this year's draft.

Columbus' biggest problem on defense is having too many prospects. Tim Erixon and Cody Goloubef are waiting to break into the NHL, but they remain in the AHL with Prout, Murray, and Savard already in the NHL.… read more



More...

5 years ago we would have laughed and called this a joke. The trick now is to keep it stocked year after year.

And I have come to the conclusion that I think it would have been better for DANO to come play in the chl to get top line minutes, experience and confidence that he could surely use.

ImGoingNucks 10-31-2013 10:05 AM

You guys really did well in this years draft.. Enviable indeed.

stevo61 10-31-2013 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 (Post 73571399)
5 years ago we would have laughed and called this a joke. The trick now is to keep it stocked year after year.

And I have come to the conclusion that I think it would have been better for DANO to come play in the chl to get top line minutes, experience and confidence that he could surely use.

Even the AHL. Get used to the NA game while playing a bit stronger competition then the CHL.

EspenK 10-31-2013 01:34 PM

I know I'm probably wrong, but it seems to me that all European prospects would be better off playing in NA than in Europe. Seeing Wennberg playing in a league that doesn't score a lot of goals does little to reassure me that he is on his way to becoming a #1 center for the Jackets(especially since he is playing W). Plus it helps getting used to a smaller rink and a more physical style of play.

Please don't point out the Peter Forsberg's of the world. I'm talking the mere mortal kind of players.

stevo61 10-31-2013 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EspenK (Post 73584049)
I know I'm probably wrong, but it seems to me that all European prospects would be better off playing in NA than in Europe. Seeing Wennberg playing in a league that doesn't score a lot of goals does little to reassure me that he is on his way to becoming a #1 center for the Jackets(especially since he is playing W). Plus it helps getting used to a smaller rink and a more physical style of play.

Please don't point out the Peter Forsberg's of the world. I'm talking the mere mortal kind of players.

I don't think you should have the expectations of Wennberg being a number 1 center. He will most likely be a smart 2-way 50-60 point 2nd line center. I have much more hope for Johansen to solidify our center of the future position.
We do own enviable depth in our prospect pool but much like our current team no real superstar talent(Murray is on his way though). Our D and goaltending should be great for a long time but our forwards are going to be pretty similar to what we have. Lots of balanced scoring, lots of heart and physical play, never win with skill alone.

leesmith 10-31-2013 07:17 PM

But how is this possible given we weren't even ranked in the top 20 teams for prospects last year? ;)

Double-Shift Lassé 10-31-2013 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leesmith (Post 73600277)
But how is this possible given we weren't even ranked in the top 20 teams for prospects last year? ;)

'Enviable depth' is code for 'have lots of players.'

EspenK 10-31-2013 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leesmith (Post 73600277)
But how is this possible given we weren't even ranked in the top 20 teams for prospects last year? ;)

Are depth is the envy of the bottom third :sarcasm:


Edit: "Are"??? WTF? Internet spelling and grammar are starting to affect me! At least I still get the effect of using affect correctly. :laugh:

alphafox 10-31-2013 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevo61 (Post 73587427)
I don't think you should have the expectations of Wennberg being a number 1 center. He will most likely be a smart 2-way 50-60 point 2nd line center. I have much more hope for Johansen to solidify our center of the future position.
We do own enviable depth in our prospect pool but much like our current team no real superstar talent(Murray is on his way though). Our D and goaltending should be great for a long time but our forwards are going to be pretty similar to what we have. Lots of balanced scoring, lots of heart and physical play, never win with skill alone.

This. We missed our chance to pick up elite talent because we finished middle of the pack again last year. If we're lucky the guys we picked up at the draft allow us to roll lines ala the Bruins/Blues model in the near future (Wennberg, Dano, and Rychel all were pegged as second line guys. If Murray and Erixon develop we will have a very solid D corp and a top flight nhl goalie in Bob. Regardless without some amazing draft and development luck we will never be a talented, exciting team. However we can be effective which is most important.

Hopefully we use the depth we have built to flip assets into better players, which looks to be our best bet for championships in the future.

EspenK 11-01-2013 06:04 AM

Not exactly sure why a #14 pick is automatically written of as a 2nd line center. He might not be a Crosby or Toews in the making but I'm not ready to say he couldn't become the Jackets #1 center. Anze Kopitar went 12 and as far as I know he is on the first line for the Kings.:dunno:

davidbklyn 11-01-2013 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphafox (Post 73609867)
This. We missed our chance to pick up elite talent because we finished middle of the pack again last year. If we're lucky the guys we picked up at the draft allow us to roll lines ala the Bruins/Blues model in the near future (Wennberg, Dano, and Rychel all were pegged as second line guys. If Murray and Erixon develop we will have a very solid D corp and a top flight nhl goalie in Bob. Regardless without some amazing draft and development luck we will never be a talented, exciting team. However we can be effective which is most important.

Hopefully we use the depth we have built to flip assets into better players, which looks to be our best bet for championships in the future.

And what a finish it was! I would't avoid using the word "exciting" to describe it.

The alternative, to finish so poorly that we could pick up elite talent, would mean a very different fan experience and CBJ player experience and a much longer summer. Just for the chance to get a kid who may or may not develop.

I'm not saying middle of the pack, mediocre, average play finishing just out of the 8th spot is always a good thing. But last year's finish to that same destination was arguably more valuable to this team than a higher draft pick.

EspenK 11-01-2013 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidbklyn (Post 73625359)
And what a finish it was! I would't avoid using the word "exciting" to describe it.

The alternative, to finish so poorly that we could pick up elite talent, would mean a very different fan experience and CBJ player experience and a much longer summer. Just for the chance to get a kid who may or may not develop.

I'm not saying middle of the pack, mediocre, average play finishing just out of the 8th spot is always a good thing. But last year's finish to that same destination was arguably more valuable to this team than a higher draft pick.

Maybe for this season but in 5 years when last year is a fond memory I bet MacKinnon would have been better.

alphafox 11-01-2013 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidbklyn (Post 73625359)
And what a finish it was! I would't avoid using the word "exciting" to describe it.

The alternative, to finish so poorly that we could pick up elite talent, would mean a very different fan experience and CBJ player experience and a much longer summer. Just for the chance to get a kid who may or may not develop.

I'm not saying middle of the pack, mediocre, average play finishing just out of the 8th spot is always a good thing. But last year's finish to that same destination was arguably more valuable to this team than a higher draft pick.


The intensity of the run itself and the win or go home nature of every game was exciting, however the actual hockey itself has never been the "exciting" brand of offensive hockey seen in Pit or Chi, which is what I was referring to.

I agree that last years finish was a boon to hockey in Columbus, however we've already seen this year that it hasn't transformed the fan base (see recetn attendance numbers). In fact I believe that without a star the caliber of Crosby, Kane, Ovi hockey in Ohio is always going to take a back seat to Ohio State.


I'm not going to argue the benefits or negatives of "tanking" as that particular topic has been more than a bit divisive on this forum over the course of the last few years with many well reasoned arguments on both sides.(That being said I would sell every single player on this team and play a season with an AHL roster for McDavid)

JacketsFanWest 11-01-2013 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EspenK (Post 73584049)
I know I'm probably wrong, but it seems to me that all European prospects would be better off playing in NA than in Europe. Seeing Wennberg playing in a league that doesn't score a lot of goals does little to reassure me that he is on his way to becoming a #1 center for the Jackets(especially since he is playing W). Plus it helps getting used to a smaller rink and a more physical style of play.

The SHL/SEL is on par with the AHL. It would be a step down for Wennberg to play in juniors.

CBJ draft pick Kirill Starkov went from playing for Frölunda (the same team Wennberg plays for) to the WHL where he lead the league in scoring. It was ridiculously easy for him and gave him an inflated ego that NA hockey was easy.

Søberg in Swedish juniors and Björkstrand in the WHL have the impressive stats blowing out other teams by huge margins, but does that really help in terms of development?

In the SHL, Wennberg is having to play against AHL caliber goalies and players with NHL experience. Frölunda is playing Leksand right now who Fabian Brunnström and Ryan Russell play for. Sure, he could be tearing it up in the CHL, but would that really mean he was a better player?

Also, Wennberg is playing on the first line for Frölunda today. So far it's a scorless tie in the middle of the second period.

Roadman 11-01-2013 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphafox (Post 73629359)
The intensity of the run itself and the win or go home nature of every game was exciting, however the actual hockey itself has never been the "exciting" brand of offensive hockey seen in Pit or Chi, which is what I was referring to.

I agree that last years finish was a boon to hockey in Columbus, however we've already seen this year that it hasn't transformed the fan base (see recetn attendance numbers). In fact I believe that without a star the caliber of Crosby, Kane, Ovi hockey in Ohio is always going to take a back seat to Ohio State.


I'm not going to argue the benefits or negatives of "tanking" as that particular topic has been more than a bit divisive on this forum over the course of the last few years with many well reasoned arguments on both sides.(That being said I would sell every single player on this team and play a season with an AHL roster for McDavid)

That is absurd. Why is the only way to the promised land always chasing the high end "star"? EDM doesn't seem do be doing so well with that approach. I think the Detroit and Boston templates are much more possible as well as sustainable. Solid if not spectacular roster, solid if not spectacular drafting, hard working, constantly improving incrementally across the board instead of rolling the dice on a single OMG savior. No single player, not Gretzky, not Crosby, not Orr, not Hull, can carry a team. Because of the single undeniable fact, it is a team game. I think the Blue Jackets are heading in the right direction. The path to the top is one of many steps not a single leap.

davidbklyn 11-01-2013 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EspenK (Post 73628063)
Maybe for this season but in 5 years when last year is a fond memory I bet MacKinnon would have been better.

I hear what you're saying but I don't agree. First of all, don't set it up like MacKinnon to the Jackets was an option equal in probability to finishing just out of the playoffs. I mean for one thing, we'd have had to win the lottery :help:

And I just think that if we'd finished last year dead last (and managed to get MacKinnon), none of the positives that we're enjoying now would be a reality. We're enjoying them as fans, but you gotta think the organization, players and all, are benefitting from that run. It's not just a fond memory is what I'm trying to say, but an important blast of air that cleaned out a lot (all?) of the stench in NWA that accumulated after years of poor play and bad captainship. I mean, think we'd have signed Horton if we'd been in a place to draft MacKinnon?

EspenK 11-01-2013 04:06 PM

I did think of the Horton signing after I posted so valid point. I'm not sure I see the benefits this year from last year's run yet this season. If we were 8-2-1 or something then yes but 5-6, meh. I'm not saying that last year had no positive impact, I'm just saying that in 5 years having drafted even in the top 6 would have been more memorable than finishing like we did. Of course this is all a theoretical discussion because we finished where we did and drafted like we did.

Now to send Roadman into apoplexy if we had a bad year next year and were lucky enough to win the lottery, I'd be a very happy camper. :nod::naughty::laugh:

Roadman 11-01-2013 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EspenK (Post 73636947)
I did think of the Horton signing after I posted so valid point. I'm not sure I see the benefits this year from last year's run yet this season. If we were 8-2-1 or something then yes but 5-6, meh. I'm not saying that last year had no positive impact, I'm just saying that in 5 years having drafted even in the top 6 would have been more memorable than finishing like we did. Of course this is all a theoretical discussion because we finished where we did and drafted like we did.

Now to send Roadman into apoplexy if we had a bad year next year and were lucky enough to win the lottery, I'd be a very happy camper. :nod::naughty::laugh:

SNTS

Shiny New Toy Syndrome. ;)

Once it's bites you you never seem to lose it. Antibiotics are ineffective, therapy does no good. Losing seems to promote it's spread. Known to permeate an entire fan base.

A Stanley Cup is rumored to be the only cure.

alphafox 11-01-2013 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadman (Post 73634087)
That is absurd. Why is the only way to the promised land always chasing the high end "star"? EDM doesn't seem do be doing so well with that approach. I think the Detroit and Boston templates are much more possible as well as sustainable. Solid if not spectacular roster, solid if not spectacular drafting, hard working, constantly improving incrementally across the board instead of rolling the dice on a single OMG savior. No single player, not Gretzky, not Crosby, not Orr, not Hull, can carry a team. Because of the single undeniable fact, it is a team game. I think the Blue Jackets are heading in the right direction. The path to the top is one of many steps not a single leap.

No offense, but name the last championship team that didn't have multiple superstar players. Like it or not you win in this league on the back of elite talent.

Chicago: Toews, Kane
LA: Quick, Doughty
Boston: Chara, Thomas
Chicago: Same
Pitt:Crosby, Malkin, Letang
Wings: Datsyuk, Zetterberg
Ducks: Pronger, Niedermayer

Also the Boston, Detroit argument is simply false. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are two of the best players in the league and can basically attract any free agent that they want. Boston has Chara one of if not the best all around D-man in the league, Bergeron is a Selke level Center, and Lucic is one of the few power forwards remaining in the league. Both have drafted extremely well and have built some of the best rosters in the NHL.

While my statement was hyperbole and one single player does not a team make, the type of generational player that McDavid appears to be can transform a franchise. Superstar talent is most likely to be found in the top 10 and that is the talent you need to win championships. (You can find the talent in the later rounds, but it is much more difficult and becoming more so as the league gets better and better at evaluating and separating talent, finding the Robitaille, Datsyuk, or Hulls is becoming nearly impossible now.)

Roadman 11-01-2013 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphafox (Post 73638671)
No offense, but name the last championship team that didn't have multiple superstar players. Like it or not you win in this league on the back of elite talent.

Chicago: Toews, Kane
LA: Quick, Doughty
Boston: Chara, Thomas
Chicago: Same
Pitt:Crosby, Malkin, Letang
Wings: Datsyuk, Zetterberg
Ducks: Pronger, Niedermayer

Also the Boston, Detroit argument is simply false. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are two of the best players in the league and can basically attract any free agent that they want. Boston has Chara one of if not the best all around D-man in the league, Bergeron is a Selke level Center, and Lucic is one of the few power forwards remaining in the league. Both have drafted extremely well and have built some of the best rosters in the NHL.

While my statement was hyperbole and one single player does not a team make, the type of generational player that McDavid appears to be can transform a franchise. Superstar talent is most likely to be found in the top 10 and that is the talent you need to win championships. (You can find the talent in the later rounds, but it is much more difficult and becoming more so as the league gets better and better at evaluating and separating talent, finding the Robitaille, Datsyuk, or Hulls is becoming nearly impossible now.)

My point is that the "stars" are not always 1st overalls.

Your examples:

Bos: Chara 3/56, Thomas 9/217 (couldn't buy a job for years)
Det: Datsyuk 6/171, Zetterberg 7/210
LA: Quick 3/72

And yes they are harder and harder to find but even those top Line guys don't do it by themselves. Look at the rest of Boston's roster or Detroit's or LA's or Chicago's and it's made up guys from all over the map. Yes, you like the super stars and this is an argument I will never win with you but you can't just bank on finding a diamond by wallowing in the muck until it happens.

You would throw away the entire roster to draft McDavid and by the time you assembled enough talent around him to win he wouldn't be here any more. How's three 1's in a row working out for EDM?

Try this.. you can't win throwing in every hand hoping to hit four aces. The ante will kill you and even when you hit it nobody's going to play with you.

alphafox 11-01-2013 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadman (Post 73640297)
My point is that the "stars" are not always 1st overalls.

Your examples:

Bos: Chara 3/56, Thomas 9/217 (couldn't buy a job for years)
Det: Datsyuk 6/171, Zetterberg 7/210
LA: Quick 3/72

And yes they are harder and harder to find but even those top Line guys don't do it by themselves. Look at the rest of Boston's roster or Detroit's or LA's or Chicago's and it's made up guys from all over the map. Yes, you like the super stars and this is an argument I will never win with you but you can't just bank on finding a diamond by wallowing in the muck until it happens.

You would throw away the entire roster to draft McDavid and by the time you assembled enough talent around him to win he wouldn't be here any more. How's three 1's in a row working out for EDM?

Try this.. you can't win throwing in every hand hoping to hit four aces. The ante will kill you and even when you hit it nobody's going to play with you.

Agreed. Culture and team construction are both as important as talent and the mix is critical to team success. As I said previously the thing about trading the whole team for McDavid was a bit of hyperbole guys like Dubi, JMFJ, Bob have created a culture and foundation for a winning team if we can just add the talent to complete the picture. It's simply that the easiest way of doing that is with high draft picks (this is one of the reasons I hate the draft lottery percentages in hockey, middling teams are forced to remain miiddling without extraordinarily good and lucky drafting).


As to your oilers reference...the oilers and us are a perfect example of two teams with completely opposite problems.

The Oilers have all the top line talent anyone could ask for, however the team's construction is bad (no defense, no depth, no goalie, small forwards) and they lack identity and leadership. Our team on the other hand lacks talent but is well constructed and has good leadership. We are clearly closer to winning than the Oil at this point, however much of that could be fixed if the Oil's management was competent. You could trade Eberle & Gagner and transform that team into a contender very quickly, where as it is much more difficult for us to find the missing pieces we need.

Roadman 11-01-2013 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphafox (Post 73643655)
Agreed. Culture and team construction are both as important as talent and the mix is critical to team success. As I said previously the thing about trading the whole team for McDavid was a bit of hyperbole guys like Dubi, JMFJ, Bob have created a culture and foundation for a winning team if we can just add the talent to complete the picture. It's simply that the easiest way of doing that is with high draft picks (this is one of the reasons I hate the draft lottery percentages in hockey, middling teams are forced to remain miiddling without extraordinarily good and lucky drafting).


As to your oilers reference...the oilers and us are a perfect example of two teams with completely opposite problems.

The Oilers have all the top line talent anyone could ask for, however the team's construction is bad (no defense, no depth, no goalie, small forwards) and they lack identity and leadership. Our team on the other hand lacks talent but is well constructed and has good leadership. We are clearly closer to winning than the Oil at this point, however much of that could be fixed if the Oil's management was competent. You could trade Eberle & Gagner and transform that team into a contender very quickly, where as it is much more difficult for us to find the missing pieces we need.

And I'm not so sure we don't have some of that talent you allude to in the development stage. Atkinson have all the makings do a top line sniper with an edge. Johansen has done al the hard work, learning how to play the defensive side, now he just has to resurrect his offensive instincts. Don' think anyone can quess yet what Jenner is gong to become. There are a lot of top flight players in the NHL that took a while to get to where they are now. As far as the talent o the Oilers I' m not yet sold that all the wunderkind are going to be what that fan base expects them to be.

I like the direction the organization is going. Last year at this point (actually a little later than this) most of us were looking at several years of woes and it seems that that process is considerably ahead of schedule. Bury the past, nothing can be done about the sad first ten years. Enjoy the process, let the kids grow, watch the organization mature. I for one intend to.

HellasLEAF 11-01-2013 09:30 PM

who's on your top pp then.

Johnson and Murray? Or is it Wiz..


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