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-   -   Rumor: FA Signings, Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread IX: (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1528429)

s7ark 10-31-2013 02:57 PM

FA Signings, Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread IX:
 
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A few posts


Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt19Oilers (Post 73587105)
If it's for Couturier, Coburn and Simmonds (not Downie) then i bet we have to give up more than just Eberle and Klefbom. IMO we'd need to add the first and maybe more.

The only question I have is: why have with RNH, Gagner AND Couturier? Gagner has a NTC does he not? So Couturier at 3C? If we're trading for Couturier then you'd think it would in a 2C role.

I'd go for just Coburn and Simmonds. Partially because I don't know if there is room for Couturier here with Gagner around, and also because we don't really know what he will become as an offensive player.

Assuming Eberle, 1st, Smid (add Marincin if necessary) for Simmonds, Coburn

Hall-RNH-Yakupov
Perron-Gagner-Simmonds
XXX-Gordon-XXX
XXX-XXX-Pitlick

Coburn-Petry
XXX-J. Schultz
Nurse-Ference

is good with me, and MAYBE a trade with Buffalo for Ehrhoff could be made to fill in the other D-spot.
Bottom 6 wingers can be a combo of free agents, and some of the guys we already have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law (Post 73587153)
Ekblad reminds me of Shea Weber with a weaker shot. The guy is so ****ing strong on the puck, it's insane. Klefbom is a guy we have that goes into a battle along the boards and comes out with the puck every time, Ekblad is just like that except with better hockey IQ and better offensive skills. A top 4 featuring Nurse, Ekblad, and Klefbom would be one of the hardest defensive cores to play against and leave opposing teams crying in pain. It would also let us play Justin Schultz the way he's meant to be: babysat by a defensively sound player that can move the puck, against weaker competition, in an offensive role. Ekblad+Nurse can play against opposing top pairings and allow J Schultz to just do his thing, much like how Pietrangelo+Bouwmeester shelter Shattenkirk and OEL+Michalek shelter Yandle.

One player I think we should be all over is Dmitri Kulikov. He's rumored to be available and does it all. He's just stuck in a bad situation with a bad team. Could we perhaps scoop him up without giving up any of the big 4/our 1st?



He's easily one of the dumbest players in the NHL when it comes to making decisions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose Coleman (Post 73587549)
That's a mammoth overpay, plain and simple. Just a total train wreck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by duul (Post 73587587)
If we tank this year, acquire Ekblad and trade for a defenceman like Tyutin and more grit, we will actually be set.

The chances of MacT trading Eberle are probably 0, but if he had balls he could greatly improve this club. Imagine going into next season with Ekblad, Tyutin, Dubinsky, Umberger instead of Eberle? Ughhhhhh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conkanen (Post 73587647)
Unreal how this board underrates their own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild (Post 73587747)
So basically on par with what we have, only difference being he brings a tougher, grittier games. I call that an upgrade :handclap:

Quote:

Originally Posted by duul (Post 73587963)
If we are trading Eberle, let's make it worthwhile. Coburn is a big body. He's not a good skater, he is an average passer and doesn't even take the body often.

Get someone worthwhile and some grit if we are trading an all star player. :shakehead

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt19Oilers (Post 73588111)
I think this board is more often guilty of OVERRATING our own players. If it's an overpay, then value on our side can be taken out, but at least it would ACTUALLY get a deal done, not some of the "Hemsky, Marincin and Smid for Couturier, Simmonds and Coburn" type of crap i've been reading.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild (Post 73588227)
:huh: We're trading Eberle.....damn....:facepalm:


Moose Coleman 10-31-2013 03:03 PM

Quote:

I think this board is more often guilty of OVERRATING our own players. If it's an overpay, then value on our side can be taken out, but at least it would ACTUALLY get a deal done, not some of the "Hemsky, Marincin and Smid for Couturier, Simmonds and Coburn" type of crap i've been reading.
Of course it would get a deal done. Philly would take that and run away giggling. .

Pablo Aimar 10-31-2013 03:09 PM

Eberle is better than Simmonds and Smid is better (and cheaper) than Coburn. So then the plan is:
1. Trade good players for worse players
2.???????
3. Profit!!!

Doesn't make sense to me.

yukoner88 10-31-2013 03:13 PM

Here's a shot at a proposal

To Edmonton

Dan Girardi
Derek Brassard
NYR 2014 conditional pick (If Hemsky re-signs we get this years 2nd rd pick, if he does not we get their 3rd)
'14 3rd rd pick

To NYR

Hemsky (retain 50% of this years salary)
Smid
Marincin
Conditional draft pick (if Girardi re-signs they get our '15 1st rd pick, if he walks they get this years 3rd rd pick)

I know this would need some adjusting but Girardi I think is the guy to go after, he's a good all round defenseman, has a right hand shot, there isn't a ntc to and may not require as much to aquire. I'm no expert on valueing draft picks, so dont flame me on that. The kick would be getting Girardi to re-sign, but if he comes and makes it clear he's not willing to stay, he could be flipped at the trade deadline for someone else.

Matt19Oilers 10-31-2013 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose Coleman (Post 73588819)
Of course it would get a deal done. Philly would take that and run away giggling. .

The values on either end can be tinkered with, but i'd rather overpay a little and improve the mix of the team than do nothing and keep on losing.

The Nuge 10-31-2013 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pablo Aimar (Post 73589147)
Eberle is better than Simmonds and Smid is better (and cheaper) than Coburn. So then the plan is:
1. Trade good players for worse players
2.???????
3. Profit!!!

Doesn't make sense to me.

Can't forget about Couturier. He's probably the 2nd most valuable asset in that deal after Ebs. I'd be ok with moving Yak for SC/Schenn and Simmonds. They're in the east, so trading Yakupov wouldn't hurt us so much, and we add a lot of grit (that can actually play).

I also don't understand why we'd want to do the Coburn/Smid swap

Moose Coleman 10-31-2013 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt19Oilers (Post 73589319)
The values on either end can be tinkered with, but i'd rather overpay a little and improve the mix of the team than do nothing and keep on losing.

And how do you know you're actually "improving the mix"? Just because you've ticked off a box on a preconceived need? We've seen examples of players being brought in on that basis and failing (IMO Ference is one of those: all "grit" and "leadership" but depressingly lacking when it comes to performance on the ice). In my opinion, it's never a smart idea to trade productive young players/potential stars for complimentary players unless you have a gun to your head.

Conkanen* 10-31-2013 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moose coleman (Post 73589941)
in my opinion, it's never a smart idea to trade productive young players/potential stars for complimentary players unless you have a gun to your head.

+ 100,000,000

raab 10-31-2013 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose Coleman (Post 73589941)
And how do you know you're actually "improving the mix"? Just because you've ticked off a box on a preconceived need? We've seen examples of players being brought in on that basis and failing (IMO Ference is one of those: all "grit" and "leadership" but depressingly lacking when it comes to performance on the ice). In my opinion, it's never a smart idea to trade productive young players/potential stars for complimentary players unless you have a gun to your head.

And the Oilers don't? Won't be long until the Tier 1 fans decide there better off taking a 2 week vacation to Hawaii instead of watching this disgrace of a team.

DrDreidelz 10-31-2013 03:33 PM

We are so lacking in size up front we are going to have to lose a trade slightly to make progress. Everybody in the league sees we are desperate.

GreatKeith 10-31-2013 03:33 PM

Any deal not involving a serious goaltending or defensive upgrade isn't one worth thinking about.

Enough with the forwards.

raab 10-31-2013 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conkanen (Post 73590147)
+ 100,000,000

25+ goal scorers like Simmonds are hardly complimentary pieces.

joestevens29 10-31-2013 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raab (Post 73590319)
And the Oilers don't? Won't be long until the Tier 1 fans decide there better off taking a 2 week vacation to Hawaii instead of watching this disgrace of a team.

Doubtful, tier one fans can't write off Hawaiian vacations as easy as hockey tickets. As long as our economy is booming good luck on the theory of rexall losing ticket sales.

Tedi 10-31-2013 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Nuge (Post 73589695)
Can't forget about Couturier. He's probably the 2nd most valuable asset in that deal after Ebs. I'd be ok with moving Yak for SC/Schenn and Simmonds. They're in the east, so trading Yakupov wouldn't hurt us so much, and we add a lot of grit (that can actually play).

I also don't understand why we'd want to do the Coburn/Smid swap

I really like Smid but he will never be as tough as Coburn. Coburn has his own limitations but he will would bring a more rounded game than Smid has right now. I hate to say that because Smid has got such a warriors mentality and attitude wise he is one of the best in the biz. That being said I highly doubt this rumoured trade between the Flyers and the Oilers goes down anyways. L. Schenn would be the guy I would rather target, has a lot of skill but is just struggling to put it all together. 2 cents.

GreatKeith 10-31-2013 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raab (Post 73590383)
25+ goal scorers like Simmonds are hardly complimentary pieces.

They very rarely prevent goals against.

Conkanen* 10-31-2013 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raab (Post 73590319)
And the Oilers don't? Won't be long until the Tier 1 fans decide there better off taking a 2 week vacation to Hawaii instead of watching this disgrace of a team.

So you want to make a big move now? When NHL GMs have us over a barrel and the team has less than a 3% chance of making the playoffs?

Gone 10-31-2013 03:39 PM

Here are two 'hockey trades' that could work for both sides:

KLowe for Sakic,
MacT for Patrick Roy.

We then send Eakins to the minors.

Just a thought, but I bet both sides win with these moves!

Conkanen* 10-31-2013 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raab (Post 73590383)
25+ goal scorers like Simmonds are hardly complimentary pieces.

Well that's what a lot of people call Eberle here. Complimentary.

raab 10-31-2013 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conkanen (Post 73590753)
Well that's what a lot of people call Eberle here. Complimentary.

So what's the issue with trading Eberle then if hes complimentary?

Conkanen* 10-31-2013 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raab (Post 73590885)
So what's the issue with trading Eberle then if hes complimentary?

I am not in that group. NEC to being in that group.

Tedi 10-31-2013 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose Coleman (Post 73589941)
And how do you know you're actually "improving the mix"? Just because you've ticked off a box on a preconceived need? We've seen examples of players being brought in on that basis and failing (IMO Ference is one of those: all "grit" and "leadership" but depressingly lacking when it comes to performance on the ice). In my opinion, it's never a smart idea to trade productive young players/potential stars for complimentary players unless you have a gun to your head.

I dunno, Ference came exactly as advertised. I am not really surprised or disappointed by Ference. Ference brings calm and composure to his position, on a team where every time we get pinned in our zone and it looks like circus clown fire drill this attribute is worth learning by our younger players. He hasn't necessarily been as physical as I would have liked to see but maybe that will start to show when bigger games are on the line. Such a small sample size so far to truly evaluate if he can actually get this team turned around with him as a leader.

Matt19Oilers 10-31-2013 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose Coleman (Post 73589941)
And how do you know you're actually "improving the mix"? Just because you've ticked off a box on a preconceived need? We've seen examples of players being brought in on that basis and failing (IMO Ference is one of those: all "grit" and "leadership" but depressingly lacking when it comes to performance on the ice). In my opinion, it's never a smart idea to trade productive young players/potential stars for complimentary players unless you have a gun to your head.

Well, I guess a lot of what this comes down to are my views on Eberle. When I watch Eberle play, I don't see the "superstar/core" player that a lot of people here do. Of course the skill-set is obvious, but I see a player that 1) doesn't consistently compete hard, and has become
increasingly prone to tunnel vision 2) gets too much credit for putting up points against weaker teams and doesn't take enough flack for not producing against tougher teams, 3) vanishes completely and has no answer whatsoever for opponents playing him tough defensively. A few successful toe-drags and nice goals here and there aren't enough to make me consider this guy a franchise player. His production is almost entirely based on if the guys he is playing with are "on". If he is asked to be the go-to guy on a line, unless he is playing against weaker competition, he will struggle. I honestly don't see him surpassing the 76 points he had 2 years ago, unless he is riding on the coat tails of Hall and RNH.

I don't dispute that he is a much more skilled player than Wayne Simmonds, but based on the group of forwards that we have, I think that the TYPE skillset Eberle has is too redundant and that Wayne Simmonds would be more valuable to this team, based on what he brings. More points doesn't equal more valuable.

Tedi 10-31-2013 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt19Oilers (Post 73591087)
Well, I guess a lot of what this comes down to are my views on Eberle. When I watch Eberle play, I don't see the "superstar/core" player that a lot of people here do. Of course the skill-set is obvious, but I see a player that 1) doesn't consistently compete hard, and has become
increasingly prone to tunnel vision 2) gets too much credit for putting up points against weaker teams and doesn't take enough flack for not producing against tougher teams, 3) vanishes completely and has no answer whatsoever for opponents playing him tough defensively. A few successful toe-drags and nice goals here and there aren't enough to make me consider this guy a franchise player. His production is almost entirely based on if the guys he is playing with are "on". If he is asked to be the go-to guy on a line, unless he is playing against weaker competition, he will struggle. I honestly don't see him surpassing the 76 points he had 2 years ago, unless he is riding on the coat tails of Hall and RNH.

I don't dispute that he is a much more skilled player than Wayne Simmonds, but based on the group of forwards that we have, I think that the TYPE skillset Eberle has is too redundant and that Wayne Simmonds would be more valuable to this team, based on what he brings. More points doesn't equal more valuable.

Eberle is close to being PPG player and that is without many PP points. I doubt you could get that out of Simmonds, so you take skill and production out of the lineup.

Moose Coleman 10-31-2013 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raab (Post 73590319)
And the Oilers don't? Won't be long until the Tier 1 fans decide there better off taking a 2 week vacation to Hawaii instead of watching this disgrace of a team.

They don't, no.They can afford (in every sense of the word) to ride it out.

Quote:

25+ goal scorers like Simmonds are hardly complimentary pieces.
That doesn't make sense. Does every guy who scores 25+ goals ipso facto drive the bus?

FWIW, Simmonds's production is hugely dependent on being on the PP to a far greater extent than Eberle. He's not a ES difference maker at all.

Moose Coleman 10-31-2013 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raab (Post 73590885)
So what's the issue with trading Eberle then if hes complimentary?

I don't necessarily have a problem with trading him (he'd be the first out the door if I had to choose). But I'd rather see him traded for something better than what we've seen proposed, ideally a #1 or potential #1 D.


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