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-   -   News Article: Bob McKenzie: Link Between Subban's Usage and Contract Negotiations (UPDATE OP)? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1529121)

Andy 11-01-2013 04:33 PM

Bob McKenzie: Link Between Subban's Usage and Contract Negotiations (UPDATE OP)?
 
UPDATE:
Quote:

HabsLinks‏@HabsLinks1h
Bob McKenzie on @tsn690mornings: PK Subban's representatives will be coming to MTL in a week or two to start negotiations on a new contract.

HabsLinks‏@HabsLinks1h
More McKenzie: Some around the league believe there may be a link between Therrien's recent usage of Subban & upcoming contract negotiation

************************************************** ******

http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/the-curio...bban-1.1524316

Quote:

The PK I talk to now is formal and safe and sadly, he is burnt. I am another person in a big crowd. The rapport is gone and I don't blame his circumspection about me, about all of us, one bit. He needs to save himself. I would do the same.

It is said that one can suffer the death of a thousand small cuts. I don't know if P.K. is dying inside. I can't know it because he isn't sharing his feelings anymore. He is an automaton of safe.

I feel I do know this though: In two years, when P.K. is an unrestricted free agent, he better not still be suffering from a thousand more small cuts from his own head coach. For like Mario Tremblay vs. Patrick Roy before him, the Habs better not suffer the loss of vision to not see who is the real asset and who is always expendable.

WhiskeySeven 11-01-2013 04:36 PM

Brian Wilde has always been a reactionary clown. Just because he's saying something I agree with this time doesn't make him any less of a joke. He legitimizes the very boob that started this latest news cycle: Darren Dreger. In doing so he actually adds fuel to the fire.

DAChampion 11-01-2013 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven (Post 73638141)
Brian Wilde has always been a reactionary clown. Just because he's saying something I agree with this time doesn't make him any less of a joke. He legitimizes the very boob that started this latest news cycle: Darren Dreger. In doing so he actually adds fuel to the fire.

Is there anybody in official montreal canadiens media that you can stand?

jedimyrmidon 11-01-2013 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven (Post 73638141)
Brian Wilde has always been a reactionary clown. Just because he's saying something I agree with this time doesn't make him any less of a joke. He legitimizes the very boob that started this latest news cycle: Darren Dreger. In doing so he actually adds fuel to the fire.

Are you the guy who has a huge problem with Dave Stubbs?

Stjonnypopo 11-01-2013 04:40 PM

Brian Wilde is kind of annoying with this crap. He seems to make a big deal out of things.

I'm sure all of us (or most of us) watch 24CH and it seems like PK is happy. If he's not confiding his personal life to the reporters maybe it's because he's more mature and not because he's suffering from 1000 small cuts?

DAChampion 11-01-2013 04:41 PM

Anyway, the article makes a lot of sense. I really dislike Bergevin and Therrien for the lack of respect they've shown Subban, and I'm 95% sure it's racism from these two who like to lecture the rest of the world on "character". Ultimately the one thing Subban has going for him is that he really loves the game, and Therrien and Bergevin did everything they could to take that away.

Subban is the one player, the only player, the singular player, that Bergevin has singled out to not get a good contract. Every single other player has been paid respectfully. Every single other player has been paid respectfully and even overpaid. It's disgusting.

Quote:

I remember when P.K. Subban was having a lot of fun doing triple low fives with Carey Price after wins. No. We can't have that. Too flamboyant. Better stop that. Odd though, I can't remember ever hearing about the flamboyance of Price then - just the flamboyance of Subban. What is this word flamboyance? I seem to only hear it ever in one circumstance. Hmmm.
Read more: http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/the-curio...#ixzz2jQsOHPXk

Brilliant point.

SooperSingh 11-01-2013 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAChampion (Post 73638371)
Anyway, the article makes a lot of sense. I really dislike Bergevin and Therrien for the lack of respect they've shown Subban, and I'm 95% sure it's racism from these two who like to lecture the rest of the world on "character". Ultimately the one thing Subban has going for him is that he really loves the game, and Therrien and Bergevin did everything they could to take that away.

Subban is the one player, the only player, the singular player, that Bergevin has singled out to not get a good contract. Every single other player has been paid respectfully. Every single other player has been paid respectfully and even overpaid. It's disgusting.


Read more: http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/the-curio...#ixzz2jQsOHPXk

Brilliant point.

oh cmon! maybe they've told pk to take it easy on the low fives and stuff but saying stuff like youre 95% sure that its racism is laughable. Another example of media fuelling the fire.

Andy 11-01-2013 04:49 PM

The lack of respect towards Subban goes back to the bridge contract negotiation with the discourse of "Subban should learn to put the team first" and "we want to teach him to be a better man."

DAChampion 11-01-2013 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SooperSingh (Post 73638677)
oh cmon! maybe they've told pk to take it easy on the low fives and stuff but saying stuff like youre 95% sure that its racism is laughable. Another example of media fuelling the fire.

The bottom line is PK is being singled out on a consistent basis.

If his name was Peter Smith, and he was white, and everything else was the same, he would not be getting treated this badly.

SouthernHab 11-01-2013 04:51 PM

How many times can the victim card be played before it loses impact?

PK Subban, despite winning the Norris, is far from perfect on the ice. And any coach worth his paycheck will try to improve the performance of his players........all the way from the rookie to the superstar.

To not do that is folly.

I would be willing to bet any amount of money that Crosby still receives coaching from Bylsma.

If I were PK, I wouldnt talk to idiots like Brian Wilde either. Look at how Wilde is spinning this tale.

SouthernHab 11-01-2013 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 73638731)
The lack of respect towards Subban goes back to the bridge contract negotiation with the discourse of "Subban should learn to put the team first" and "we want to teach him to be a better man."

It is a team game Andy.

No single player is greater than the team.

JayKing 11-01-2013 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernHab (Post 73638903)
It is a team game Andy.

No single player is greater than the team.

and Subban wanting to stay long term with the team is not a sign of being selfish.

Bob Cole 11-01-2013 04:54 PM

PK gets treated like a little kid while scrubs like DD and Bouillon get preferential treatment. I would be pissed too.

Lafleurs Guy 11-01-2013 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven (Post 73638141)
Brian Wilde has always been a reactionary clown. Just because he's saying something I agree with this time doesn't make him any less of a joke. He legitimizes the very boob that started this latest news cycle: Darren Dreger. In doing so he actually adds fuel to the fire.

As I said in the other thread, Dreger's just reporting what he's told. Don't shoot the messenger.

But yes, he's a boob. :)
Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernHab (Post 73638845)
How many times can the victim card be played before it loses impact?

PK Subban, despite winning the Norris, is far from perfect on the ice. And any coach worth his paycheck will try to improve the performance of his players........all the way from the rookie to the superstar.

To not do that is folly.

Sure.

But MT's not using Subban in late games is mystifying. Even if he's trying to get a message across it's ridiculous that he did it in the playoffs.

You say that PK is far from perfect? Okay. Can we say this about the coach too?

WhiskeySeven 11-01-2013 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedimyrmidon (Post 73638323)
Are you the guy who has a huge problem with Dave Stubbs?

In so many words: yes. But I'm not the only one.
Quote:

Originally Posted by DAChampion (Post 73638197)
Is there anybody in official montreal canadiens media that you can stand?

That girl that asked that question about Cole on the PP - Jess Ruznak was the only person in the past ~3 years who did their job. Arpon Basu was an enjoyable writer but he writes shill pieces for NHL.com now and sucks. The rest of the media are trash - but I do enjoy the insights of the ex-pros whenever they have something to chime in about a subtle play on the ice or how life is for a pro athlete, otherwise they're all useless at best and dangerous and hurtful at worst.

There's a special circle in hell reserved for Dreger, Stubbs, Dave Hodge & The Reporters and Marinara though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stjonnypopo (Post 73638339)
Brian Wilde is kind of annoying with this crap. He seems to make a big deal out of things.

I'm sure all of us (or most of us) watch 24CH and it seems like PK is happy. If he's not confiding his personal life to the reporters maybe it's because he's more mature and not because he's suffering from 1000 small cuts?

Well said. '1000 small cuts' is such a stupid, inflammatory phrase in this situation. I really dislike Bergevin regime and Therrien's approach is puzzling sometimes (and I'm no fan of his defensive tactics) but it's pretty clear he's demanding the best from Subban because Subban's capable of it.

We as an audience are only buying into this drama because we want it to be true when the simplest answer is that
a) Therrien has a history and a method with talented young players, like Fleury. He's very demanding - unlike Jacques Martin who wouldn't give chances to begin with.
b) Subban's defensive IQ isn't as good as the rest of his game so he can still improve
c) It doesn't matter if he's not playing the last minute of one game, there are 4 other d-men (+ Bouillon) who can take the odd shift, he might've been gassed, he might've been coming on the next shift, who cares. He can't play 60 minutes
d) Bergevin should be the one coming in to skewer the media for their relentless bickering and interference.

Therrien was wrong to say it was Subban's fault we lost the Calgary game. Therrien is wrong about a lot of things a lot of the time. In this particular case - I don't want Subban blocking shots and breaking his ankle on the PK, Diaz can do it. I don't want Subban on the last minute of a game all the time, he's going to exhaust himself for Team Canada and for the playoffs.

If that imbecile Dreger is saying that Hockey Canada doesn't rate PK Subban well that's either a fabrication on his part or Hockey Canada are seriously wrong. In either case it's beyond Subban, and beyond Therrien. We're winning games, he's leading the league in d-man points, he plays 24min a game and scoring goals - life is good on the Subban front.

If you want something to be upset about look at Bergevin who thought the Daniel Briere was a good signing, a player who gets a concussion every time the wind on Rene Levesque picks up. Or David Desharnais who's on pace for 6 points. Or the powerplay. Or Gionta who plays like he has stubbs for arms.

SooperSingh 11-01-2013 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAChampion (Post 73638767)
The bottom line is PK is being singled out on a consistent basis.

If his name was Peter Smith, and he was white, and everything else was the same, he would not be getting treated this badly.

I think we're over reacting a little bit here. Whatever the plan the management has for him, whether we agree with it or not, it has nothing to do with his skin color. I personally want to see the flair that PK carries himself with, maybe the management feels otherwise and wants him to tone it down. Now that's a point we can all debate on but racism, IMO, has no part in this.

DAChampion 11-01-2013 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernHab (Post 73638845)
How many times can the victim card be played before it loses impact?

Until the victimisation stops.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernHab (Post 73638845)
PK Subban, despite winning the Norris, is far from perfect on the ice.

He's the best player we've had in a generation with nobody else even coming close. Subban won a Norris. Closest are Markov coming in 7th in a Norris race, and Kovalev coming in 11th in the Art Ross race.

**********

A plausible scenario: Subban files for arbitration, he walks in two years, and the Montreal Canadiens have David Desharnais on their roster, but not PK Subban.

kernkraft 11-01-2013 04:57 PM

This team hasn't had a better core of young players since the 80's, a 24 y/o wins the Norris, is leading the league in D scoring, and people still find ways to complain.

I don't see racism/unfair treatment/whatever, I see Bergevin and Therrien trying to slowly mold PK into the captain and face of this franchise (I don't agree with everything they've done but how often does that happen?). He's going to break the bank with a new contract within a few short months, play in the Olympics and be given the C this summer and all this will be forgotten.

sheed36 11-01-2013 04:59 PM

Here's another write up about Subban from today by Ted Bird.. Touchy subject and one I wish we didn't have to read about.

The elephant in the room: racism and PK

http://tedbirddroppings.blogspot.ca/...sm-and-pk.html

Ayatollah Chowmeini 11-01-2013 05:00 PM

"Now let me see... What is it about P.K. Subban that is different than anyone else? I am pretty sure all of the other top defenceman in the league make some high risk mistakes too. What could it be about P.K. that made Mike Richards say that that guy needs to earn players' respect. Odd, Richards said this and others parroted it because he never said that about any other player. What could it be about PK that is different? I wish I knew. I wish I were smarter and could read between these lines that seem to be repeated time and time again in a veiled way. Such a mystery.

I remember when P.K. Subban was having a lot of fun doing triple low fives with Carey Price after wins. No. We can't have that. Too flamboyant. Better stop that. Odd though, I can't remember ever hearing about the flamboyance of Price then - just the flamboyance of Subban. What is this word flamboyance? I seem to only hear it ever in one circumstance. Hmmm."

This part is correct, but also incorrect in terms of his larger argument. I would say that the league, media, etc have a race problem with PK. No disagreement.

Would I say that this plays into Therrien/Bergevin's treatment of PK? No. I agree they're mismanaging him at the moment here and there, but I disagree that that part is race-related.

Et le But 11-01-2013 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven (Post 73638141)
Brian Wilde has always been a reactionary clown. Just because he's saying something I agree with this time doesn't make him any less of a joke. He legitimizes the very boob that started this latest news cycle: Darren Dreger. In doing so he actually adds fuel to the fire.

I agree completely about Wilde. He's a little too much of a fan to be taken seriously. However, that doesn't mean he's not right, and the more people in the media willing to defend Subban the better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheed36 (Post 73639227)
Here's another write up about Subban from today by Ted Bird.. Touchy subject and one I wish we didn't have to read about.

The elephant in the room: racism and PK

http://tedbirddroppings.blogspot.ca/...sm-and-pk.html

I love Ted Bird on twitter, nice to see his blog is just as good.

pine* 11-01-2013 05:01 PM

Therrien can go **** himself.

#FireTherrien

Runner77 11-01-2013 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven (Post 73639037)
Or Gionta who plays like he has stubbs for arms.

Well yeah, he's out of biceps.

BLONG7 11-01-2013 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pine (Post 73639295)
Therrien can go **** himself.

#FireTherrien

Should never had hired him...:shakehead

Nicko999 11-01-2013 05:07 PM

Of course his TOI could be a bit higher but there is NOTHING wrong with the way he's used. He's playing close to 25 min a game.

It's just the same old crap, media trying to run someone out of town. It's gonna be either Therrien or Subban.


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