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-   -   if the Yotes deal a goalie... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=15319)

AvsGuy 09-29-2003 09:34 AM

if the Yotes deal a goalie...
 
what will they go for? before the waiver draft that is...here's my best guesses...

TO BOSTON:

Sean Burke

TO PHOENIX:

Shaone Morrisson, Marty McInnis, 3rd rounder

(ooh Yotes fans won't like that one.. :p )
-----------------

TO CALGARY:

Brian Boucher, 5th rounder

TO PHOENIX:

Martin Gelinas, 4th rounder

-----------------

TO EDMONTON:

Zac Bierk, future considerations

TO PHOENIX:

Jason Chimera




thoughts???

Dr Love 09-29-2003 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AvsGuy
TO CALGARY:

Brian Boucher, 5th rounder

TO PHOENIX:

Martin Gelinas, 4th rounder

I don't see how this makes any sense for the Flames. They don't need another struggling goalie making a good deal of money.

FacelessButcher 09-29-2003 09:47 AM

Zac Bierk 6ft4
Stephan Valliquette 6ft5

wow, 2 MONSTROUS goalies in Edmonton :o (is their a guide to know how to get all the faces?)
although Edmonton could use more goalie prospects but we have two in Deslauriers and Conklin could not see us trading a line-up guy unless he had a real good upside. I don't think Bierk would get much ice on our farm team either we need Deslauriers to get a ton for the future.

Ice Cream Man 09-29-2003 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AvsGuy
-----------------

TO CALGARY:

Brian Boucher, 5th rounder

TO PHOENIX:

Martin Gelinas, 4th rounder

-----------------

As a Flames fan, I'd do it. Boucher does make some change, but so does Gelinas this year. Gelinas' departure opens a roster spot for comeback kid Robert Dome, and Boucher would prove a competent backup that pushes Roman Turek. I think its a good deal in principle. However....

1) I'm not sure Sutter wants to tie up that kind of money in goaltending again; it could be put to use in other places, and

2) Switching Gelinas to Dome is a HUGE risk. Gelinas is the type of player Calgary needs to make the playoffs - veteran performer who can chip in offensively, defensively, and provide leadership. No question our offense would downgrade atleast temporarily, and if Dome makes the team he becomes a high reward, higher risk player.

There's reason to like and reasons not to like this proposal.

TMHUNH 09-29-2003 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AvsGuy
what will they go for? before the waiver draft that is...here's my best guesses...

TO BOSTON:

Sean Burke

TO PHOENIX:

Shaone Morrisson, Marty McInnis, 3rd rounder

(ooh Yotes fans won't like that one.. :p )

Can't happen. Marty McInnis is a UFA. He was bought out by the Bruins earlier in the summer.

Irish Blues 09-29-2003 09:59 AM

If the Yotes deal a goalie......
 
.....then hopefully we'll stop seeing threads about the subject.

And when Joseph finally gets moved, we'll finally stop seeing threads on that subject too.

Lanny MacDonald* 09-29-2003 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man
As a Flames fan, I'd do it...

Give your head a shake Ice Cream Man. Why the hell would you dump Gelinas in favor of Dome, who hasn't proven that he can play in the NHL. If you're dumping a forward you hedge your bets and dump Chris Clark, not a guy that scored 20 goals for you last year. And then you take on an extra cunk of dough to have Boucher sit on the bench and open the gate and produce jack for the team? My my, you are a gambler aren't you. Dumb idea through and through.

DesertDawg 09-29-2003 10:56 AM

well I'm not up to all the rules about the waiver draft, but if a team takes 1 of the exposed goalies, then they would have to keep him on their NHL roster or risk the Coyotes taken him back and automatically sendng him to the AHL...
IMO , if I'm not mistaken, the Coyotes can then protect their depth(additional players) if a goalie is taken...

AvsGuy 09-29-2003 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMHUNH
Can't happen. Marty McInnis is a UFA. He was bought out by the Bruins earlier in the summer.

crap. touche'...

AvsGuy 09-29-2003 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Love
I don't see how this makes any sense for the Flames. They don't need another struggling goalie making a good deal of money.

true, but if Boucher plays well, they could end up just buying out Turek and ending the whole soap opera. or maybe they'd light a fire under each others @$$es and start playing better.

either way, an experienced veteran for a young goalie isn't a bad deal. a little risky for what Gelinas brings to the Flames, but not terrible...

PhoPhan 09-29-2003 11:52 AM

I would give a quick "no" without even thinking about it for the first two offers, but I would quickly accept the 3rd.

As far as trade value, here is what I see:

Burke:
Value to other teams:
Mid-level prospect, 2nd round pick, low level prospect.
Value to Coyotes: upper level prospect, 3rd round pick, cash

Boucher
To other teams:
3rd round pick, 5th round pick
To Coyotes: mid level prospect, 1st rounder

Bierk
to other teams: 3rd rounder
to Coyotes: 2nd rounder, random prospect

That being said, if a deal is reached, it'll likely be between the two values. If the Coyotes could get someone like Jason Chimera for Bierk, I'd be stoked. I do not think the Coyotes want anymore roster players, especially not guys like Gelinas or McInnis. They already have too many players.

the-rasta-masta 09-29-2003 01:23 PM

Gelinas would have to agree to that trade since he has a no trade clause.

XX 09-29-2003 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta
Gelinas would have to agree to that trade since he has a no trade clause.

Perhaps he wouldnt mind leaving Calgary?

Gelinas is
A.) Under 6ft
B.) over 30

which means hes not in the coyotes plan.
Dont get me wrong, id love to have him. But he just doesnt fit the Barnett vision.

Id do the Boucher deal if we had room, but we dont
Bierk trade is a given...

But the Burke trade, lets get serious
Its going to take a 1st rounder and nice prospect to get him outta phoenix before the season starts.

CCF 09-29-2003 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XavierX
Perhaps he wouldnt mind leaving Calgary?

Gelinas is
A.) Under 6ft
B.) over 30

which means hes not in the coyotes plan.
Dont get me wrong, id love to have him. But he just doesnt fit the Barnett vision.

Id do the Boucher deal if we had room, but we dont
Bierk trade is a given...

But the Burke trade, lets get serious
Its going to take a 1st rounder and nice prospect to get him outta phoenix before the season starts.

Gelinas wants to play in Canada, he signed in Calgary because that's where he wants to be. Doubt he would pick up his things and move after a successful year in a place where he plays an ideal role.

Ice Cream Man 09-29-2003 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
Give your head a shake Ice Cream Man. Why the hell would you dump Gelinas in favor of Dome, who hasn't proven that he can play in the NHL. If you're dumping a forward you hedge your bets and dump Chris Clark, not a guy that scored 20 goals for you last year. And then you take on an extra cunk of dough to have Boucher sit on the bench and open the gate and produce jack for the team? My my, you are a gambler aren't you. Dumb idea through and through.

Well, my opinion is that if Gelinas leaves, as this trade proposal dictates,, Dome would be the replacement body on the roster. Dumping Clark wasn't an option in this proposal.

If there was a choice, however, I'd dump Clark in a heartbeat and give his roster spot to Dome. And, obviously, keep Gelinas.

I did mention that this trade would downgrade the Flames' offense. Dome is very much unproven and is still an incredibly unstable pick for a roster spot.

However, Boucher is a definite upgrade over McLennan in the backup position. Nobody can, or should, dispute that. I don't think McLennan, Sabourin or Krahn are capable of backup duties right now. Sutter wouldn't be doing his job if he wasn't looking for an upgrade at this position.

Don't forget - I did cover the leadership issue, the cost issue and the risk issue in my argument. No need to leave that out.

Gelinas is a Flame, and should, IMO, remain a Flame for a long time. He's a very important cog to have on a team. However, backup goaltending is also an issue in Calgary, and what happens if Turek goes down to injury again this year? I sure as hell would rather have Boucher stepping in than McLennan.


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