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-   -   Speculation: Let's face the truth, this is not a good team. (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1532457)

otto bond 11-06-2013 05:26 AM

Let's face the truth, this is not a good team.
 
You guys can see it? This team is small, lacking depth and more fockus on blocking shots. No forward with talent can trow decent check(well almost) and they all play with one hand on their sticks...what is this 5 dman squad?
There no denying that this team has guts but no way management can say this team is hard to play vs. I'm getting so tired at looking at the other team circling in our zone with our player trying to only poke check the puck or getting in the shooting lane. Our Dman are trying the bomb passes all the time and its taking all our speed in the neutral zone. They are always one step awaay from the puck and can't make an accurate chip to the forward with speed...to short but mostly always way to long. Spending 2 minute in ot in your zone controlling the puck is not gonna win you many games, they couldn't even past the blue line...wow. Now our best Daman is in a fluke, our young guns are cold and our vets are just to busy pleasing the coach.
After tonight if I'm the GM, I'm worried. It's not the losses that worries me but the way we did lose. No excuses with the injuries has I can remember the Pens winning without there top player, same with Colorado in the early days.

PS:With a small team, we go out and signed Briere? Ok fine but why keep Gionta, DD, Bouillon and get AHL vet like St-Pierre? Ok with Parros but he's a 13th forward at best.

DAChampion 11-06-2013 05:30 AM

Our mediocrity is exposed because in the past week or two we have faced three of the toughest teams in the league: San Jose, Colorado, and St-Louis.

otto bond 11-06-2013 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAChampion (Post 73912513)
Our mediocrity is exposed because in the past week or two we have faced three of the toughest teams in the league: San Jose, Colorado, and St-Louis.

I know their record would indicate this but they are not. Those other 2 team simply out muscled us big time. But yea your right, this team is mediocre at best.

DAChampion 11-06-2013 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by otto bond (Post 73912545)
I know their record would indicate this but they are not. Those other 2 team simply out muscled us big time. But yea your right, this team is mediocre at best.

Regardless of whether or not they're overachieving, Colorado's record indicates that they are playing like an elite team, and in fact they played a very crisp game against us.

Pricef 11-06-2013 05:42 AM

This board is just too depressing sometimes with all of it's Chicken Littles. I'll come back after we've won 2-3 in a row and people here are positive again.

otto bond 11-06-2013 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAChampion (Post 73912565)
Regardless of whether or not they're overachieving, Colorado's record indicates that they are playing like an elite team, and in fact they played a very crisp game against us.

You are correct, lots of confidence in their play. Also, it's not like the Habs made the night a difficult one but yea they did play well overall vs us.
The way teams have dominated us down low is what scares me. We are without answer to other team's for-checking and the way teams have entered our zone with ease is really worried some.

Ceux de Montreal 11-06-2013 05:50 AM

Didnt watch the game but we lost in shootout to one of the best team in the league while missing one of our best defenceman, a top 6 forward and arguably our best defensive forward

Cupmonger 11-06-2013 05:50 AM

I don't think we're "not good" but I don't believe we're top notch either. I think we're stuck in mediocrity.

As much a my faith in the Habs says, we're winning the cup. My brain just says, we miss the playoffs. For now, we're still in it, but for how long. I don't expect us to do much better than last year if we do make it in the post-season.

There's still time to fix this team from within or outside. But for now, I think we're a mediocre team that has no chance at the cup.

otto bond 11-06-2013 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricef (Post 73912591)
This board is just too depressing sometimes with all of it's Chicken Littles. I'll come back after we've won 2-3 in a row and people here are positive again.

Sorry about that. Not to be negative here but I didn't like the overall make-out of this team going into the season and I'm not sure if I'll feel better if we win 2-3.

But on the positive side of things, you can see we have a top goalie, a future stars in the Gallys and Markov has been real good. PK despite being in a funk, has almost a PPG start to the season. Loving Bournival energy and overall play. Moen was playing some of his best hockey in years and Emelin is almost ready for a return.

Spearmint Rhino 11-06-2013 05:53 AM

No we are not a good team, average at best and with all our UFAs I'd just as soon miss the playoffs and deal them to help the rebuild than squeak in and win a single playoff game again

DAChampion 11-06-2013 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal (Post 73912647)
Didnt watch the game but we lost in shootout to one of the best team in the league while missing one of our best defenceman, a top 6 forward and arguably our best defensive forward

"We have injuries" has been a non-stop excuse in Habsistan since 2008-09. We're always blaming our ineffectiveness on injuries to Streit, Koivu, Latendresse, Higgins, Tanguay, Lang, Markov, Kostitsyn, Spacek, Gorges, Markov,Kostitsyn, Pacioretty, Markov, Cammalleri, Gionta, Bourque, Eller, Pacioretty, Emelin, Prust, Moen, Briere... in approximately that order.

Now we are missing Emelin, Briere, Prust, and Moen. It's par for the course and really nothing unusual for Habsistan. It's actually not that bad.

RC51 11-06-2013 05:55 AM

First? " good team" it seems you think a good team wins ever game and everybody else is a bad team?
Second, the Habs have been in EVERY game. Last night the Habs had to game in hand if it was not for a freak stop by Halak. Halak moved to his left leaving the entire right hand side open with the butt of his stick left behind. SO what happens? yep the puck finds the only place it could not to score. WOW, and remember it is NOT that Halak moved the stick to stop the puck, Halak was frozen. PURE LUCK PURE LUCK and some of those 1 goal losses by the Habs were also helped by PURE LUCK. Now do the Habs need a few changes, sure, is MB moving the team in the right direction? sure, Is it still going to take 2-3 years to be a NHL overall Dominant team.

otto bond 11-06-2013 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal (Post 73912647)
Didnt watch the game but we lost in shootout to one of the best team in the league while missing one of our best defenceman, a top 6 forward and arguably our best defensive forward

The score doesn't always tell the whole story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cupmonger (Post 73912653)
I don't think we're "not good" but I don't believe we're top notch either. I think we're stuck in mediocrity.

As much a my faith in the Habs says, we're winning the cup. My brain just says, we miss the playoffs. For now, we're still in it, but for how long. I don't expect us to do much better than last year if we do make it in the post-season.

There's still time to fix this team from within or outside. But for now, I think we're a mediocre team that has no chance at the cup.

OK maybe I'm a bit arch but yea I kinda feel the same way. Not looking to good for making it to the PO and if we do so, not sure how far we'll get. In all honesty, I want to see our GM putting his pants on and do something. It's time for him to make something happen from this roster.

DAChampion 11-06-2013 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RC51 (Post 73912697)
sure, Is it still going to take 2-3 years to be a NHL overall Dominant team.


That doesn't happen on its own. With good drafting alone, teams migrate to the middle, to the bubble. In order to become an "overall dominant team" there is a need for some good trades and good signings on the part of Bergevin.

otto bond 11-06-2013 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RC51 (Post 73912697)
First? " good team" it seems you think a good team wins ever game and everybody else is a bad team?
Second, the Habs have been in EVERY game. Last night the Habs had to game in hand if it was not for a freak stop by Halak. Halak moved to his left leaving the entire right hand side open with the butt of his stick left behind. SO what happens? yep the puck finds the only place it could not to score. WOW, and remember it is NOT that Halak moved the stick to stop the puck, Halak was frozen. PURE LUCK PURE LUCK and some of those 1 goal losses by the Habs were also helped by PURE LUCK. Now do the Habs need a few changes, sure, is MB moving the team in the right direction? sure, Is it still going to take 2-3 years to be a NHL overall Dominant team.

Don't give me this crap, I know what a good team is or plays like. Second, sure they have been in thick of things and if you look around the league, rarely do team get trashed on the score board. There is a fine line between good to mediocre team. Has far has luck goes, well that's just part of the game, sometime bounces go your way and other time not so much.
Also with the payroll being basically max out, this team should stand out more.

otto bond 11-06-2013 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAChampion (Post 73912719)
That doesn't happen on its own. With good drafting alone, teams migrate to the middle, to the bubble. In order to become an "overall dominant team" there is a need for some good trades and good signings on the part of Bergevin.

I agree and I would love to say he's on the right road but I don't think he's doing great. Like most GM that has beeen here in the past 20 years or so, they made questionable trades and signing often not improving the team. The Cole trade was at the end useless but yea we did get a draft pick and spend that cash on Briere.:help:

RC51 11-06-2013 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAChampion (Post 73912719)
That doesn't happen on its own. With good drafting alone, teams migrate to the middle, to the bubble. In order to become an "overall dominant team" there is a need for some good trades and good signings on the part of Bergevin.


Well remember, some players just don't want to play for Montreal add to that some teams offer BIG LONG contracts to get those signings and will pay a huge price later ( Lecavalier type problem ) As for Briere? That is all their was left at the time, what would you have said if MB did NOTHING. I am sure he is trying to trade and I am sure everybody wants are new core best players. MB has to wait until another GM is desperate and willing to take on DD or Moen or however else you think needs to go. Other wise MB has to buy out or wait until the end of contracts.

otto bond 11-06-2013 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RC51 (Post 73912815)
Well remember, some players just don't want to play for Montreal add to that some teams offer BIG LONG contracts to get those signings and will pay a huge price later ( Lecavalier type problem ) As for Briere? That is all their was left at the time, what would you have said if MB did NOTHING. I am sure he is trying to trade and I am sure everybody wants are new core best players. MB has to wait until another GM is desperate and willing to take on DD or Moen or however else you think needs to go. Other wise MB has to buy out or wait until the end of contracts.

I would have been happier if he had not signed Briere but what is done is done. Any way, got to go to work.

Tuggy 11-06-2013 06:19 AM

I honestly think things are going to be different now that we are done our Western Conference heavy schedule. The team survived the stretch still sitting in a playoff spot.

Captain Saku 11-06-2013 06:29 AM

Let's face the truth, we would have a better record if not for our moronic coach. And I'm not talking about he's treating PK, his game management is horrible.

Watsatheo 11-06-2013 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Saku (Post 73912975)
Let's face the truth, we would have a better record if not for our moronic coach. And I'm not talking about he's treating PK, his game management is horrible.

What moronic coach plays the 4th line that is proven to be almost an auto-goal against defending a 1 goal lead at home past 10 min mark in 3rd...oh right the same one that uses Boullion late 3rd to protect lead/lose point and couldn't find a way to blame Subban for last night's loss.

poetryinmotion 11-06-2013 06:40 AM

Let's face the truth, Therrien is not a very good coach. :help::shakehead

Ahh beaten 2 posts up, ha. I mean seriously, I love blocked shots but that's not what made us successful last year.

LouisJCloutier 11-06-2013 06:53 AM

We are a good team with a mediocre coach.

MathMan 11-06-2013 07:26 AM

The Habs have been declining significantly over the last few games, but playing the Blues and the Sharks was always going to be tough. Nevertheless, the Habs are sitting at +9 on goal-differential which is not something bad teams usually do. Unfortunately, they've been unable to win one-goal games -- usually, though, winning big and losing small is a problem that fixes itself over time. Also, once they get to play the Eastern's weak sisters, we should see a significant upswing. They haven't really seen a genuinely bad team in a while.

That said, it's got the horses to be a much better team than it's been, it just refuses to use them (the refusal to use Subban, one of the very best all-around defensemen in the game, in high-leverage situations is asinine) and instead prefers to shoot itself in the foot by playing guys who are outright liabilities (Parros, Murray).

Murray's going away when Emelin returns, thankfully, though a better replacement would've been pretty trivial to find, and it's puzzling why such a vulnerable, high-risk defenseman keeps being used in high-leverage situations. Continuing to use Parros given his, uh, performance so far (he's basically as bad as Laraque) factors for a lot in the Habs' bad performance, especially given that one of the key aspects of last season's success was a defensively capable fourth line that could give 10-ish minutes of tough defensive slog to ease up the load on the other lines. Hopefully, when Prust and/or Moen return, they go back to that; in the meantime, never playing Parros again would already be a significant improvement. They can just play DD in his slot until he gets scoring again.

It's actually pretty shocking how much of the Habs' problems can be laid at the feet of too much Murray/Parros and not enough Subban. The difference in observed performance is that big.

It also shouldn't escape notice that the worst players on the Habs are two of the GM's three off-season acquisitions. Hopefully the inexperienced GM is taking notes and learning from his mistakes.

Lafleurs Guy 11-06-2013 07:33 AM

Team may not be great and we're facing tougher teams now but it should be better than it is.

Play Subban 30 mins a night instead of 20 and leave him be. The team will be a lot better. It's a very easy quick fix and for the life of me I can't figure out why our coach can't see this.

Subban starts the year strong and suddenly our coach decides to bench him. He should write a book: How To Get The Least Out Of Your Players - By Michel Therrien.

I mean seriously wtf is the matter with this guy. It's ****ing common sense.
Quote:

Originally Posted by MathMan (Post 73913695)
The Habs have been declining significantly over the last few games, but playing the Blues and the Sharks was always going to be tough. Nevertheless, the Habs are sitting at +9 on goal-differential which is not something bad teams usually do. Unfortunately, they've been unable to win one-goal games -- usually, though, winning big and losing small is a problem that fixes itself over time. Also, once they get to play the Eastern's weak sisters, we should see a significant upswing. They haven't really seen a genuinely bad team in a while.

That said, it's got the horses to be a much better team than it's been, it just refuses to use them (the refusal to use Subban, one of the very best all-around defensemen in the game, in high-leverage situations is asinine) and instead prefers to shoot itself in the foot by playing guys who are outright liabilities (Parros, Murray).

Murray's going away when Emelin returns, thankfully, though a better replacement would've been pretty trivial to find, and it's puzzling why such a vulnerable, high-risk defenseman keeps being used in high-leverage situations. Continuing to use Parros given his, uh, performance so far (he's basically as bad as Laraque) factors for a lot in the Habs' bad performance, especially given that one of the key aspects of last season's success was a defensively capable fourth line that could give 10-ish minutes of tough defensive slog to ease up the load on the other lines. Hopefully, when Prust and/or Moen return, they go back to that; in the meantime, never playing Parros again would already be a significant improvement. They can just play DD in his slot until he gets scoring again.

It's actually pretty shocking how much of the Habs' problems can be laid at the feet of too much Murray/Parros and not enough Subban. The difference in observed performance is that big.

It also shouldn't escape notice that the worst players on the Habs are two of the GM's three off-season acquisitions. Hopefully the inexperienced GM is taking notes and learning from his mistakes.

Wow. We agree. And if we agree then I don't understand how MT can't see this...


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