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-   -   Canucks team up with B.C Lottery... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=15330)

Peter Griffin 09-29-2003 11:23 AM

Canucks team up with B.C Lottery...
 
http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=55629


"B.C. lottery projections say the agreement could deliver up to $2 million dollars to the Canucks."

Not bad, not bad at all!

MVP 09-29-2003 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=55629


"B.C. lottery projections say the agreement could deliver up to $2 million dollars to the Canucks."

Not bad, not bad at all!


Well...... just more money that goes into McCaw pocket. It would be nice if he is actually interested in the team, but he has not shown that desire. And there is nothing to point toward that Orca Bay will use the money on the team.

ZadorovNJD* 09-29-2003 11:57 AM

$10 a ticket? That's rather steep....

Burke's Evil Spirit 09-29-2003 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVP
Well...... just more money that goes into McCaw pocket. It would be nice if he is actually interested in the team, but he has not shown that desire. And there is nothing to point toward that Orca Bay will use the money on the team.

You do realize that McCaw has lost ~$120 million US since buying the team, right? He's spent plenty of money.

MVP 09-29-2003 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
You do realize that McCaw has lost ~$120 million US since buying the team, right? He's spent plenty of money.


You do realize that NHL owners often lie about losing money in an effort to get more government and fan support?


The NHL owners said they loss 300 millions $ last season, and no team makes a profit? Do you believe in that too? Sometimes people need to think for themselves rather than believe in everything they read.

monster_bertuzzi 09-29-2003 12:54 PM

This makes us look like a worthless small-market loser franchise.

Burke's Evil Spirit 09-29-2003 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVP
You do realize that NHL owners often lie about losing money in an effort to get more government and fan support?


The NHL owners said they loss 300 millions $ last season, and no team makes a profit? Do you believe in that too? Sometimes people need to think for themselves rather than believe in everything they read.

So McCaw is lying?

MVP 09-29-2003 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
So McCaw is lying?

There is no lying in the business world, it is called selective information. They only tell you the information that they want you to know about, it is really just a trait of human nature.

I mean think about it, how could the Canucks possibility be losing 120 millions $ with the team still average close to 14000 people per game during those years, and it was not like the team had a 60millions $ salary at the time either.

Also, if McCaw is really losing a lot of money, would it just make sense for him to sell the team immediately since the team is good on and off the ice right now, which would definately attract a buyer likes Abramovich. And in such scenario McCaw could sold the team and GM place to 300 to 400 millions $, and cut his lose and get out of the money losing situation?

The fact is McCaw has been making money with the Canucks, and he is doing what a good business man would do which is ranting about losing money by publishing selective information to try to generate more money support from the fan and government.

Scheme 09-29-2003 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVP
You do realize that NHL owners often lie about losing money in an effort to get more government and fan support?

Oh yeah, which NHL owners? Can you name them? Did they tell you personally that they're lying? Can you read their minds?

You do realize that McCaw wouldn't be currently interested in selling the team if he's making fistfuls of money? You do realize the LA Kings recently opened their books to a fan and he independently audited them and corroborated their story that were losing millions of dollars?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVP
Sometimes people need to think for themselves rather than believe in everything they read.

Of course. The flip side of that is that sometimes people have silly ideas when they think for themselves. :)

MVP 09-29-2003 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scheme
Oh yeah, which NHL owners? Can you name them? Did they tell you personally that they're lying? Can you read their minds?

You do realize that McCaw wouldn't be currently interested in selling the team if he's making fistfuls of money? You do realize the LA Kings recently opened their books to a fan and he independently audited them and corroborated their story that were losing millions of dollars?



Of course. The flip side of that is that sometimes people have silly ideas when they think for themselves. :)


i suggest you to goto this board http://www.hfboards.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=100

and learn some of the practices of NHL business before you rant about absolutely nothing.

chum 09-29-2003 01:32 PM

sure, McCaw is losing money on Canucks, but he's making more from GM Place than he is losing on Canucks.

Tom.H 09-29-2003 01:35 PM

Although I don't know if the figures that are given are correct concerning Canuck losses. One thing that makes me believe there is something to it is the fact that Jim Pattison has not bought an NHL franchise.
In the past he has shown interest, but he has backed out because (if I am to believe what I hear) of the enormous losses associated with ownership of NHL teams.
It really doesn't matter what some people think personally about Jim Pattison. The fact is he isn't in the habit of buying loosing businesses, unless of course he sees a way to turn it around to a money maker.

Mizral 09-29-2003 02:00 PM

MVP,

While you may be right, BES & Scheme & other who share their point of view can back up what they are saying with articles from newspapers & such. You cannot, as all you really have is a conspiracy theory.

(I should add, I do agree with you. I'm just saying, it's a pointless arguement. To act like you are 100% right is foolish, because we can't say for sure.)

MVP 09-29-2003 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizral
MVP,

While you may be right, BES & Scheme & other who share their point of view can back up what they are saying with articles from newspapers & such. You cannot, as all you really have is a conspiracy theory.

(I should add, I do agree with you. I'm just saying, it's a pointless arguement. To act like you are 100% right is foolish, because we can't say for sure.)


Actually maybe my previous posts did not clearly express my points. My points probably indicate that i am in favor of the NHLPA which often illustrated facts about how the owners lie about the revence. i don't question the fact that city such as Pittsburge don't generate enough revence for the team to compete without stable salary cap. I don't think i am 100% right in fact i am 100% sure i am not 100% right, much like the dispute between the NHL and NHLPA, it is safe to say that both parties have some good points. What i want to get across is the view from the fan who is concern about the actual economic reality of the NHL today. And having the government help the Canucks while the team is making money is foolish don't you think? While the money generate by this type of lottery can go back to the government and distribute on local program such as health care and education. 2 millions $ might not seem like a lot, but if those 2 millions $ are place in health care, i am sure that is couple thousand lives that can be saved.

On the other hand, like you said i don't have a 100% fact or document about all the NHL franchcise, and i don't think i have a right to look at their books when they are private own and run company. However, if they are going to use public money or organization such as BC lottery than i think as a critizen of BC, i have the right to question about the where the money is heading and do the NHL team actually require assistance.

Peter Griffin 09-29-2003 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVP
And having the government help the Canucks while the team is making money is foolish don't you think? While the money generate by this type of lottery can go back to the government and distribute on local program such as health care and education. 2 millions $ might not seem like a lot, but if those 2 millions $ are place in health care, i am sure that is couple thousand lives that can be saved.

The lottery is Canuck based. Without the Canucks, this lottery wouldn't even exist. The Canucks generate millions of dollars for the BC government every year, it's about time that the government did something to ensure that they will stay a productive member of the economy. Without the Canucks, the economy loses all the money the generate through direct taxes, employees, hospitality etc. Most NHL franchises in the US have their buildings built for them through tax payers money. This is the least the government could do...

MVP 09-29-2003 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
The lottery is Canuck based. Without the Canucks, this lottery wouldn't even exist. The Canucks generate millions of dollars for the BC government every year, it's about time that the government did something to ensure that they will stay a productive member of the economy. Without the Canucks, the economy loses all the money the generate through direct taxes, employees, hospitality etc. Most NHL franchises in the US have their buildings built for them through tax payers money. This is the least the government could do...


Those are good points, my counter points are that it is impossible for any city in Canada to compete with majority of the city in US. i mean in any given city in Canada with the exception of Toronto, there is just a lack of taxation revence and popluation to generate enough money to build the building and other benefit. It is the sad reality. It is the NHL that has the power to create some type of revence sharing system that enable the even playing field for all the teams, but even under such system the profitable teams are getting punished.


i agree that it is vital for Vancouver to keep the Canucks, but would it be more important to be sure that Canucks are actually losing money first? i mean if Canucks are indeed making money on its own that what is the point of giving them more money through government assistance. i could understand the situation in Alberta where there is a need for such assistance, but i am not sure the Canucks needs it at this point. Again by to the original point, if McCaw has show or will show the willingness of improve the team or the building through the extra revence generate by government assistance than i would not have a problem with since the performance and addition enhancement of the building can be experienced by the fans and critizens of British Columbia, however, if the governement assistance is just going toward the pocket of McCaw for personal interest, would it be kind of pointless?

i have no problem with McCaw making money, i think he deserves to after the money he invested on the Canucks, but i do have problem with him making extra money out of government when indeed the economic picture of this team is stablized at less for this season, i think this point is evidenced by public statement made by Cobb. i mean all the games are basically sold out.

KOMO_ROCKS 09-29-2003 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVP
Those are good points, my counter points are that it is impossible for any city in Canada to compete with majority of the city in US. i mean in any given city in Canada with the exception of Toronto, there is just a lack of taxation revence and popluation to generate enough money to build the building and other benefit. It is the sad reality. It is the NHL that has the power to create some type of revence sharing system that enable the even playing field for all the teams, but even under such system the profitable teams are getting punished.


i agree that it is vital for Vancouver to keep the Canucks, but would it be more important to be sure that Canucks are actually losing money first? i mean if Canucks are indeed making money on its own that what is the point of giving them more money through government assistance. i could understand the situation in Alberta where there is a need for such assistance, but i am not sure the Canucks needs it at this point. Again by to the original point, if McCaw has show or will show the willingness of improve the team or the building through the extra revence generate by government assistance than i would not have a problem with since the performance and addition enhancement of the building can be experienced by the fans and critizens of British Columbia, however, if the governement assistance is just going toward the pocket of McCaw for personal interest, would it be kind of pointless?

i have no problem with McCaw making money, i think he deserves to after the money he invested on the Canucks, but i do have problem with him making extra money out of government when indeed the economic picture of this team is stablized at less for this season, i think this point is evidenced by public statement made by Cobb. i mean all the games are basically sold out.

Good points James :handclap:

Reign Nateo 09-29-2003 03:53 PM

Seems like a good plan. Both sides get what they want. Could be a viable option for small market teams.

LaVal 09-29-2003 04:19 PM

the tickets are already out. i saw them at Macs when i stopped to buy a pop on the way home from work

Peter Griffin 09-29-2003 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVP
Those are good points, my counter points are that it is impossible for any city in Canada to compete with majority of the city in US. i mean in any given city in Canada with the exception of Toronto, there is just a lack of taxation revence and popluation to generate enough money to build the building and other benefit. It is the sad reality. It is the NHL that has the power to create some type of revence sharing system that enable the even playing field for all the teams, but even under such system the profitable teams are getting punished.

I agree that the local governments in many cities can't afford to finance the cost of an arena for their local team, and that the NHL has to create some sort of system to create a more level playing field, but I also don't feel that the government should cry foul for helping out a large revunue creating entity such as the Canucks when they are making millions off of the team.

Quote:

i agree that it is vital for Vancouver to keep the Canucks, but would it be more important to be sure that Canucks are actually losing money first? i mean if Canucks are indeed making money on its own that what is the point of giving them more money through government assistance. i could understand the situation in Alberta where there is a need for such assistance, but i am not sure the Canucks needs it at this point. Again by to the original point, if McCaw has show or will show the willingness of improve the team or the building through the extra revence generate by government assistance than i would not have a problem with since the performance and addition enhancement of the building can be experienced by the fans and critizens of British Columbia, however, if the governement assistance is just going toward the pocket of McCaw for personal interest, would it be kind of pointless?
I hope that the NHL can create a system where the Canucks don't have to worry about losing money on a yearly basis, but if that doesn't materialize, the government has to help out in some way, unless they want to lose the millions of dollars they receive every year as a direct result from the Canucks. I guess this would be something that would be examined more closely after the current CBA expires.

Quote:

i have no problem with McCaw making money, i think he deserves to after the money he invested on the Canucks, but i do have problem with him making extra money out of government when indeed the economic picture of this team is stablized at less for this season, i think this point is evidenced by public statement made by Cobb. i mean all the games are basically sold out.
How is the team or McCaw making extra money from the government? From my understanding the Canucks are receiving money from this partnership for allowing the government to create lottery tickets which bear the Canucks name, players, and involves prizes directlyt related to the team. Without the Canucks, there wouldn't be this particular lotto program. It even says in the article that the B.C. Lottery Corp. will receive an estimated $6 mil in revenues from this new lottery. Seems like a win-win situation to me with no government handouts. The government is once again making money off the Canucks, but at least this time, the Canucks will be seeing some of it...

Burke's Evil Spirit 09-29-2003 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVP
I mean think about it, how could the Canucks possibility be losing 120 millions $ with the team still average close to 14000 people per game during those years, and it was not like the team had a 60millions $ salary at the time either.

Check your facts. The Canucks had not sold more than 9000 season tickets after the second year of operation in GM Place until 2001-2002, when the Canucks broke even. The number dipped as low as 6500 in 98-99 when the Canucks team budget hit $45 million US.

"Average attendance" is a meaningless figure since when attendance is low the team is wont to give free tickets away just to fill seats.

Quote:

Also, if McCaw is really losing a lot of money, would it just make sense for him to sell the team immediately since the team is good on and off the ice right now, which would definately attract a buyer likes Abramovich. And in such scenario McCaw could sold the team and GM place to 300 to 400 millions $, and cut his lose and get out of the money losing situation?
Yeah, right. $300 million? When Ottawa AND the Corel Center went for $110 million? Besides, McCaw is committed to keeping the team in Vancouver, which no ownership group has said yes to (aside from the Cam Neely project, whose problem is simply lack of cash).

Quote:

The fact is McCaw has been making money with the Canucks, and he is doing what a good business man would do which is ranting about losing money by publishing selective information to try to generate more money support from the fan and government.
No, you have no clue as to what you're talking about. Clearly, your "free thinking" consists of having read Net Worth and forming a rabid anti-owner opinion by a piece of NHLPA propaganda (not to say that Net Worth is worthless, but there is a whole other side to the story you are ignoring). There is a difference between being "pro-NHLPA" and "a single-minded idiot". All you have at this point is, as Mizral says, conspiracy theories.

PecaFan 09-29-2003 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
It even says in the article that the B.C. Lottery Corp. will receive an estimated $6 mil in revenues from this new lottery. Seems like a win-win situation to me with no government handouts. The government is once again making money off the Canucks, but at least this time, the Canucks will be seeing some of it...

From what I understand, it seems to be win-win only if there's a significant increase in the amount of money spent on lotteries, that is, if these new Canucks tickets bring in folks who normally don't play the lottery.

IE, if Nancy O.A.P currently buys $100 a month of "Price is Right" scratch tickets, BCLC gets $100 of revenue. If she switches completely to Canucks scratchies, now BCLC only gets $85 revenue.

After the initial infatuation period where new folks will come in and buy, I suspect the majority of these tickets will be scavenged from other ticket types.

MVP 09-29-2003 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
"Average attendance" is a meaningless figure since when attendance is low the team is wont to give free tickets away just to fill seats.



.


How do you prove that with fact? Okay my bad you cannot.



Quote:

Yeah, right. $300 million? When Ottawa AND the Corel Center went for $110 million? Besides, McCaw is committed to keeping the team in Vancouver, which no ownership group has said yes to (aside from the Cam Neely project, whose problem is simply lack of cash).
Oh right, the Forbes magazine just published a report that the Canucks are worth 110 million US


Here is the link http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2002/1223/098tab.html

And that is not including the increase of attendance and new excitement that the Canucks generate from last season, which would make the the franchise worth even more right now. Even with the 110 millions $ which is = to around 160 million Cdn$, and the GM place is worth at less 150$ millions Cdn $. Hmm............... i guess they are not worth 300 $ millon combine afterall :rolleyes:





Quote:

No, you have no clue as to what you're talking about. Clearly, your "free thinking" consists of having read Net Worth and forming a rabid anti-owner opinion by a piece of NHLPA propaganda (not to say that Net Worth is worthless, but there is a whole other side to the story you are ignoring). There is a difference between being "pro-NHLPA" and "a single-minded idiot". All you have at this point is, as Mizral says, conspiracy theories


Having personally attrack me does nothing to serve your points, in fact i never did personally attrack you other than debating my points. So i don't buy in either the NHLPA or NHL owner propaganda. In fact i am taking the NHL fan side. The best thing would be for both NHLPA and NHL to take a step back and create a salary cap and allow the NHL owners to decrease the ticket price so it makes it possible for regualr Canucks or other fan to enjoy the game. Unforunately, that will never happen.

Peter Griffin 09-30-2003 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PecaFan
From what I understand, it seems to be win-win only if there's a significant increase in the amount of money spent on lotteries, that is, if these new Canucks tickets bring in folks who normally don't play the lottery.

IE, if Nancy O.A.P currently buys $100 a month of "Price is Right" scratch tickets, BCLC gets $100 of revenue. If she switches completely to Canucks scratchies, now BCLC only gets $85 revenue.

After the initial infatuation period where new folks will come in and buy, I suspect the majority of these tickets will be scavenged from other ticket types.

There will likely be new patrons for this Canucks's based lotto, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see. The BC Lottery Corp. representatives even said that they are expecting an increased revunue, so they seem pretty optimistic that people will buy more tickets, not just substitute them.

Scheme 09-30-2003 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVP
i suggest you to goto this board http://www.hfboards.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=100

and learn some of the practices of NHL business before you rant about absolutely nothing.

My, aren't we being defensive? :p Instead of addressing my points, you ask me to go to some board. :teach: :rolleyes:

Like I said, unless you can actually prove that the owners are lying, instead of just using your opinion as fact, you have nothing.


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