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Starsdude 09-29-2003 11:35 AM

Dupuis
 
Why is he not signed? He is young, can score even in this system and seems improved defensively? Is this a correct assessment and is he available? at what cost?

Are fans generally upset at the Wild not resigning top talent in a timely way despite great fan support. They should be.

Dan-o 09-29-2003 12:02 PM

If you want to know why he is not re-signed, read the Gaborik thread. It details the offer he's received. It's not an offer I can see Dupuis accepting and the sides don't seem too interested in resolving this.

Do I think he's available? I think everybody is available, but that Dallas would have to overpay to get him. The Wild are committed to the future and Dupuis (if we ever get him signed) is a big component of that future.

As for how the fans feel about this, I'd say the majority support Risebrough and the Wild, but that patience is starting to run thin. I was an ardent supporter until I read the Wild's latest offer to Dupuis. (Again read the Gaborik thread). Now I'm starting to get a little annoyed. It's important to not let costs get out of hand. Everybody would agree on that. But the team has to be realistic too. If you want to keep the top talent you've spent years developing, you have to keep them from walking away. I hope the Wild are just playing hardball because they know Dupuis can't go anywhere else. If this is their negotiating stance for all players, whether RFA or UFA, we're going to lose a lot of players once they hit their prime in their late 20's.

ceber 09-29-2003 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starsdude
Why is he not signed? He is young, can score even in this system and seems improved defensively? Is this a correct assessment and is he available? at what cost?

Are fans generally upset at the Wild not resigning top talent in a timely way despite great fan support. They should be.

He wants money like Huselius, except instead of two seasons similar to Kristian's, he's only had one.
As for re-signing top talent, they gave Manny and Mitchell deals that satisfied those two. I think there's a difference between re-signing guys at a good price and re-signing guys at any price. I don't see any reason to be upset before the season even starts.

Starsdude 09-29-2003 02:56 PM

Fair enough and up until this year in Dallas we were spoiled as we rarely lost anybody. I agree about cost but Gaborik is a extaordinary talent and Dupuis may be your second best offensive talent. Given ownership made a ton last year given the playoff run I think they could slightly overpay looking as an outsider. Combine that with the fact that the west got better and it seems to me that Minny would be lucky to even make the playoffs without these two.

I question your depth on defense and whether Rolly and manny can duplicate last year and without scoring those 2-1 wins look to me like losses.

I dolike a number of players like Lakksonen, Mitchell , Kuba and Burnette but without Goborick and Dupius i doubt that is enough and unfortunately any slow start in the west will hurt this year.

Another question why can't Wallin Wanvig or Roche ever make this team

Btw would Erskine and Malhotra be anywhere close for Dupuis. Stars also have picks to spare which could be added. Additionally we have a number of young goalies like Mike Smith, Stephan and Ellis with pro potential

ceber 09-29-2003 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starsdude
Fair enough and up until this year in Dallas we were spoiled as we rarely lost anybody. I agree about cost but Gaborik is a extaordinary talent and Dupuis may be your second best offensive talent. Given ownership made a ton last year given the playoff run I think they could slightly overpay looking as an outsider. Combine that with the fact that the west got better and it seems to me that Minny would be lucky to even make the playoffs without these two.

I question your depth on defense and whether Rolly and manny can duplicate last year and without scoring those 2-1 wins look to me like losses.

I dolike a number of players like Lakksonen, Mitchell , Kuba and Burnette but without Goborick and Dupius i doubt that is enough and unfortunately any slow start in the west will hurt this year.

Another question why can't Wallin Wanvig or Roche ever make this team

Btw would Erskine and Malhotra be anywhere close for Dupuis. Stars also have picks to spare which could be added. Additionally we have a number of young goalies like Mike Smith, Stephan and Ellis with pro potential

In my mind, the Gaborik situation is far more serious than the Dupuis one. I wouldn't be all that upset if Dupuis doesn't play here anymore. Don't get me wrong, I really like the guy and think he's a great fit on the team, but if it comes down to it, I'd rather give Dupuis' salary to Gaborik if that's what it takes. I do think the Wild would rather sign the guy than trade him, and they're just playing tough because they can. As far as his trade value goes, I have no idea. I mean, if you try to get equal talent you're going to end up paying the money anyway, right?

Looks like Roche might have a spot this season. I think the other guys are very close, and probably will get a shot during the season, and maybe stick then.

thestonedkoala 09-29-2003 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starsdude
I question your depth on defense and whether Rolly and manny can duplicate last year and without scoring those 2-1 wins look to me like losses.

Another question why can't Wallin Wanvig or Roche ever make this team

Btw would Erskine and Malhotra be anywhere close for Dupuis. Stars also have picks to spare which could be added. Additionally we have a number of young goalies like Mike Smith, Stephan and Ellis with pro potential

The problem is Lemaire is sold on the veterans and we have too much depth up front to really make room for these players to be added. Wallin is pretty much a forward, he can play any position, which is strange on why he didn't make the cut but I guess there is too many solid forwards in front of him.

Wanvig needs a solid season in the AHL before he can move up. He's been injured too often and they like Stevenson over Wanvig.

But both of them should be regular stays on the club by the end of the year.

Roche is an enigma. I heard mix things about him and maybe one last shot before we send him packing.

Our depth on defense isn't as bad as some people complain (including me and I'll admit that we don't have a lot of shortage of depth).

We have five good defensemen all under 30 years of age:
Brad Brown
Willie Mitchell
Filip Kuba
Andrei Zyuzin
Nick Schultz

Four of them, Mitchell, Kuba, Zyuzin, and Schultz are going to be essential for the future. Mitchell is our physical guy, Kuba and Zyuzin play solid defense but still need to learn, as do everyone else, nothing on these two exactly stand out yet, but Kuba and Zyuzin do have some untap potential that never really blossomed. Kuba needs to use his body more and Zyuzin needs to get his confidence back and to to start being the wicked offensive-defensemen he was drafted as. Schultz is a very steady blueliner that one day might end up QBing our PP. He logs in good time and does everything right, but needs a little bit of work, he's a little rough still but is playing like a 5 year vet.

Now we got:
Chris Heid
Zee Michalek
Jean-Michel Bolduc
Eric Reitz
Chris Dyment
Travis Roche

All in the minors, and three of them look already pretty solid. Heid and Michalek stand out, Bolduc needs to bulk up in size but he had an awesome prospect camp. Reitz, Dyment, and Roche might be journeymen and could wind up on other teams. As for Reitz, I've heard he hits everything in sight, come hell or high water, and clears the net. He is smaller though then most defensmen as 6'0" defensemen.

Now we don't need anymore goalies:
Johan Holmqvist is going to be a backup soon. Manny Fernandez is young.

Josh Harding is our elite netminder, who puts up outstanding numbers.

Kettles, Cloutier might be journeymen goalies that bounce from team to team, filling out rosters.

Brust is a mystery as is Kopriva.

What we do need is finassee wingers that put pucks into nets.

ceber 09-29-2003 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thestonedkoala
What we do need is finassee wingers that put pucks into nets.

Kinda like what Dupuis could be and Gaborik already is... :)

I think I'll send 5 bucks to Thompson and tell him to put it into the "sign the kids" cookie jar.

aylib 09-30-2003 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceber
Kinda like what Dupuis could be and Gaborik already is... :)

I think I'll send 5 bucks to Thompson and tell him to put it into the "sign the kids" cookie jar.

Do it for Gaborik, he loves ya.
From SI:"Marian is on his way to winning the Slovak scoring championship in nine games," Walsh said. "He has nine goals and three assists in six games, and his team [Dukla Trencin] is 5-1. But Marian's heart is in Minnesota with the Wild. He feels sorry for the fans because he loves them and wants to be playing in front of them. He misses his teammates and he hopes that the situation is resolved sooner rather than later."
:lol:

Surly Furious 09-30-2003 04:51 AM

I for one think Dupuis, or likely Walsh, has a lot of nerve asking for a major raise after one 20 goal season. I like Dupuis, and think he's a good player, but I haven't seen enough to merit a holdout. Several million over 4 years sounds pretty good to me, and about right for a guy that may never score more than he did last season.

ceber 09-30-2003 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aylib
Do it for Gaborik, he loves ya.
From SI:"Marian is on his way to winning the Slovak scoring championship in nine games," Walsh said. "He has nine goals and three assists in six games, and his team [Dukla Trencin] is 5-1. But Marian's heart is in Minnesota with the Wild. He feels sorry for the fans because he loves them and wants to be playing in front of them. He misses his teammates and he hopes that the situation is resolved sooner rather than later."
:lol:

Hah! Does Walsh think anyone actually buys that story? Come on! Tell you what, if I loved the fans, I'd be negotiating, even if management was playing the cheap ******* card. :)

kasper11 09-30-2003 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookman
I for one think Dupuis, or likely Walsh, has a lot of nerve asking for a major raise after one 20 goal season. I like Dupuis, and think he's a good player, but I haven't seen enough to merit a holdout. Several million over 4 years sounds pretty good to me, and about right for a guy that may never score more than he did last season.

The problem I have is that the Wild want to argue that he has only put together one good season, but the want to lock him up long term. To me, that is trying to have it both ways. If you are going to use the argument "he may never score more" then sign him for 1-2 years and let him prove himself. Dupuis has been reported as willing to sign for 1 year - $1M. If that is seen as too much for the Wild (personally I think it is in the area) then offer him somewhere in the neighborhood of $800K for one year.

thestonedkoala 09-30-2003 07:30 AM

The problem is, the fact that Dupuis will hit arbitration quicker, forcing Minnesota to either lose him or put out a huge chunk of change. It is a bit redundent when they say well he hasn't proved anything but we want to lock him up but I think that has to do with they know he has the potential to be a solid all around great player but they don't want to be forced to give up a lot of money in the beginning if he falls flat on his face.

Lake Harriet 09-30-2003 11:52 AM

Larry Brooks of the New York Post wrote about how the Wild is shafting Dupois on Sunday. Interesting that a writer who would have no reason to care about the Wild would see fit to get into this situation. Gabby has already made lots of money and is being offered plenty (especially given his long dry spells and the fact that he has yet to score over 30). Dupois, on the other hand, is getting a raw deal: either sign for $385K (a joke) or get tied up far below the league average until you are 27. Not fair. How about a 2 year deal?

Surly Furious 10-01-2003 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lake Harriet
Larry Brooks of the New York Post wrote about how the Wild is shafting Dupois on Sunday. Interesting that a writer who would have no reason to care about the Wild would see fit to get into this situation. Gabby has already made lots of money and is being offered plenty (especially given his long dry spells and the fact that he has yet to score over 30). Dupois, on the other hand, is getting a raw deal: either sign for $385K (a joke) or get tied up far below the league average until you are 27. Not fair. How about a 2 year deal?

If 385K is a joke, I'm laughing. Raw deal? 3+Million dollars to play hockey for four years? I know I sound like Joe Sixpack here, but sometimes these reporters and athletes lose their sense of reality. On the other hand, it's true that the players deserve the money more than the investors or management.

ceber 10-01-2003 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookman
On the other hand, it's true that the players deserve the money more than the investors or management.

Whomever takes the most risk deserves the most reward, don't you think? Depending on how you define risk, I think various sides could end up with more claim on the reward.


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