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-   -   Boyle and D Moore on ice for basically every goal against? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1561841)

usernamesteph 12-15-2013 07:13 PM

Boyle and D Moore on ice for basically every goal against?
 
whats the reward for having these players on the roster?

Brian Boyle 12-15-2013 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usernamesteph (Post 76235677)
whats the reward for having these players on the roster?

Solid thread. I appreciate the research you put into that claim.

usernamesteph 12-15-2013 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31- (Post 76236087)
Solid thread. I appreciate the research you put into that claim.

obviously overstated but i would really appreciate someone taking a stab at answering my question

Brian Boyle 12-15-2013 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usernamesteph (Post 76236355)
obviously overstated but i would really appreciate someone taking a stab at answering my question

I will attempt to quantify it after the game.

Bird Law 12-15-2013 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31- (Post 76237053)
I will attempt to quantify it after the game.

:laugh:

Brian Boyle 12-15-2013 09:30 PM

Big assists from Moore and Boyle tonight. Huge GFs led to the win.

Raspewtin 12-15-2013 09:46 PM

What is this thread based on?

Tanner Glass 12-15-2013 10:17 PM

Nice goal in the shootout by Moore

NYR2007 12-15-2013 10:20 PM

I actually like moore... I just feel like he's stuck playing with garbage players

TheRightWay 12-15-2013 10:21 PM

Without wasting time to see if your claim actually has any merit, I'll throw out a guess that it, if true, would have to do with the fact that:

A) They are put on the ice for most defensive zone situations
B) They are defensive, checking forwards often put out against the other team's top line

So, like, AV puts Rick Nash on the ice when the faceoff is in the offensive zone and the other team is sending out its checking line, while AV puts Boyle on the ice when the faceoff is in the defensive zone and Pavel Datsyuk is opposing him in the faceoff circle. Gee, I wonder why Boyle would be on for more goals?

mike14 12-15-2013 10:26 PM

Using +/- only (and it's not that accurate but neither player is on for many goals for so it's close enough) and not including tonights game:

Boyle has been a - player twice in the last 15 games, Moore 6 times.

To say that they're on the ice for basically every goal seems wrong

EDIT - D Moore has 4 - games in his last 15, the 6 was for J Moore

Brian Boyle 12-15-2013 11:25 PM

Rangers have allowed 66 5 on 5 goals this season. Boyle has been on for 14 (21.21%), Moore has been on for 13(19.70%).

Boyle is on for 22.6% of the Rangers 5-on-5 ice time, Moore 20.5%, so they're both pretty damn close to proportional, despite their lopsided defensive zone assignments.

Carlos Ranger 12-15-2013 11:26 PM

I've had zero problem with Moore. Boyle on the other hand.. I cannot remember the last positive thing he's done for this team.

Brian Boyle 12-15-2013 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlos Ranger (Post 76252749)
I've had zero problem with Moore. Boyle on the other hand.. I cannot remember the last positive thing he's done for this team.

rudum

Placid 12-15-2013 11:36 PM

Taking only "on ice presence" when a goal is scored for or against, here is the list (might not be 100 percent accurate, but i've tried to note it down after each game) :

I expect any formatting to go straight to.. erm.. south, but the numbers are simply :

On ice for even Strength against, Even Strength for, PK, PP, and then the minus on the PP is allowing a shorthanded.



4 MDZ -18 +13 -1 +4 -1
5 Girardi -27 +24 -11 +3
6 Stralman -21 +15 -4 +1
17 J. Moore -17 +14 -1 +4
18 Staal -18 +14 -6 +1
27 McD -18 +28 -10 +7 -1
42 McIllrath -1
44 J. Falk -6 +3

8 D. Powe -2
10 Miller -7 +3 +1
12 Fast -5 +1 -2
14 Pyatt -13 +4 -3
15 Dorsett -10 +5 -1
16 Brassard -19 +12 +7 -1
19 Richards -25 +25 +12 -2
20 Kreider -8 +19 +8 -1
21 Stepan -14 +19 -3 +13 -2
22 Boyle -13 +9 -10 +1
24 Cally -17 +13 -5 +8 -1
28 D. Moore -12 +5 -5
36 Zucc -15 +16 +11 -1
40 Mashinter -1
45 Asham -3
61 Nash -11 +14 -1 +2
62 Hagelin -16 +16 -2
67 Pouliot -10 +10 +1

Note : To stress this point, this has nothing to do with points, etc, it only indicates the person being on the ice when a goal is scored.

Killem Dafoe 12-16-2013 01:00 AM

lol this thread.

Machinehead 12-16-2013 01:14 AM

If I had to guess, I would say the guy on the ice for the majority of our goals against is Ryan McDonagh and he's been by leaps and bounds our best player this year. So it's not a great way to look at things.

Brian Boyle 12-16-2013 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machinehead (Post 76255987)
If I had to guess, I would say the guy on the ice for the majority of our goals against is Ryan McDonagh and he's been by leaps and bounds our best player this year. So it's not a great way to look at things.

Nope!

http://www.extraskater.com/players/o..._gp=1&team=nyr

Dan Girardi with 25. McDonagh only 24.

You must feel pretty sheepish right now...

Ail 12-16-2013 11:28 AM

The only thing missing from this thread is Bardof.

Really solid analysis here. OP has a future in hockey.

Brian Boyle 12-16-2013 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ailurophile (Post 76268547)
The only thing missing from this thread is Bardof.

Really solid analysis here. OP has a future in hockey.

ESPN-bound.

Gardner McKay 12-16-2013 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usernamesteph (Post 76236355)
obviously overstated but i would really appreciate someone taking a stab at answering my question

You may have some one take a stab if you put up the evidence to back up your claim.

Brian Boyle 12-16-2013 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gardner McKay (Post 76268709)
You may have some one take a stab if you put up the evidence to back up your claim.

I did the research. See post #12.

Bleed Ranger Blue 12-16-2013 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31- (Post 76268951)
I did the research. See post #12.

Its true, you have proved the worthwhile cause that, in fact, Brian Boyle and Dominic Moore have NOT been on the ice for every single goal the opposition has scored this season.

Brian Boyle 12-16-2013 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue (Post 76269777)
Its true, you have proved the worthwhile cause that, in fact, Brian Boyle and Dominic Moore have NOT been on the ice for every single goal the opposition has scored this season.

In fairness to the OP, he only suggested that they were on for basically every goal against. Anything above 80% would have been acceptable, IMO.

Inferno 12-16-2013 12:20 PM

Moore and Boyle are pretty good 4th line players..but they haven't really passed the "eye test".

you can throw all the advanced stats out there you'd like, but when you watch the game, rarely do they have productive shifts.

Why does Dorsett seem to do so many positive things out there, yet Boyle can't?

Boyle seems to barely touch the puck anymore. he used to be a beast on the boards, holding the puck his entire shift and basically pinning the other team in their own zone while the rangers could cycle and get fresh guys on against a tired bunch.

nowadays he doesnt do much besides dump the puck in, and then play the 3rd guy high.

how much of it is system and how much of it is him, i don't know..but hes not been a good player in my eyes. Moores been up and down, some games he gets in on the forecheck and makes things happen. I cant remember the last time Boyle did that.

Defensively, they give you what they give you, you can't hold that to be the lone standard of judging their play. They need to give you some positive offensive minutes. it doesnt have to be goals, it needs to be about wearing the other team down, cycling, hitting, generating some shots, putting the other team on their heels.

right now they are fortunate to get out of a shift that isnt completely in their own zone..and when they do, its RARELY because of something they do, certainly no Boyle, but rather what the team around them is doing.

Brian Boyle has been atrocious for large parts of this season in the offensive zone. Moores been better of late, but has been pretty awful himself. 1 goal all year long, not much productivity from a bottom player.

it wouldnt be as damning if we had a coach like torts who rolls 3 lines.

AV is a 4 line player. these guys are getting minutes...they just arent doing anything with it.


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