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-   -   Line Combos: Line combos (originated in mid-December 2013) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1564623)

Azir 12-19-2013 09:27 PM

Line combos (originated in mid-December 2013)
 
What will the Flyers line combos look like once Vinny Lecavalier comes back? With the way the first line is clicking would it be right to take Raffl off that line, and then stick Hartnell back in (shudder) or does Hartnell get 4th lines duties with an A on his sweater? I would like to hear anyone's opinion on this.

As long as the lines are productive I hope they stay the same minus the addition of Vinny. But, what to do with Hartsy?

bauerhockey02 12-19-2013 09:32 PM

I'd rather keep the lineup the way it is aside for Vinny going back to centering the second line and Schenn sliding over to wing. Put Hartnell in the press box for a while. If the team does better then keep him out and look to trade him for anything. Right now I would rather have VV in the lineup over Hartnell.

Appleyard 12-19-2013 09:45 PM

Old Yeller him! :sarcasm:

It fits with the film 'almost' perfectly.

Has to do it to become a true man, (great GM) get rid of Old Yeller (Hartnell) who he loves and has saved him when he backed him before. (2010-11) But is now past it and has rabies (2011-12 onwards.) and was dangerously close to passing it on to the one thing he loves more than Old Yeller. (Giroux.) As he knows if he does not it will be a cruel end for Old Yeller and dangerous for him and those around him.

Even the song fits in with Hartnells playing style and personality.

Azir 12-19-2013 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Appleyard (Post 76489395)
Old Yeller him! :sarcasm:

It fits with the film 'almost' perfectly.

Has to do it to become a true man, (great GM) get rid of Old Yeller (Hartnell) who he loves and has saved him when he backed him before. (2010-11) But is now past it and has rabies (2011-12 onwards.) and was dangerously close to passing it on to the one thing he loves more than Old Yeller. (Giroux.) As he knows if he does not it will be a cruel end for Old Yeller and dangerous for him and those around him.

Even the song fits in with Hartnells playing style and personality.

What do you think Hartnell could fetch in a trade?

JVR21 12-19-2013 09:56 PM

Put him on the 4th. Put Vinny in between Schenn and Simmonds. That's a hell of a forwards corps.

Striiker 12-19-2013 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tpinheiro4 (Post 76489667)
What do you think Hartnell could fetch in a trade?

huehuehuehue

Appleyard 12-19-2013 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tpinheiro4 (Post 76489667)
What do you think Hartnell could fetch in a trade?

Not sure he is well trained enough to play fetch. He would run after the ball with the best intentions... then shred it to pieces when he got to it.

But seriously... a late 1st could probably be acquired at the deadline in the right circumstances.

I imagine he ends the season with ~40 points... probably around 20-20. That and his 'intangibles' give him value... I would also not at all be surprised if he gets 45-50 in the next ~3 years once or twice. He has seemingly declined, but he always has been a streaky player who hovered in the 45-60 (paced) point range for a long time.

Azir 12-19-2013 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striiker (Post 76490831)
huehuehuehue

did i spell something wrong? or am I just missing an obvious joke?

ayshplaysh 12-19-2013 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tpinheiro4 (Post 76492661)
did i spell something wrong? or am I just missing an obvious joke?

You are missing the obvious joke.

Appleyard 12-19-2013 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tpinheiro4 (Post 76492661)
did i spell something wrong? or am I just missing an obvious joke?

You are obviously not a baby boomer, an avid watcher of daytime films or a fan of live action disney films or ridiculously catchy cheesy film songs. ;)

Search Old Yeller, and then think 'fetch'.

Striiker 12-20-2013 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tpinheiro4 (Post 76492661)
did i spell something wrong? or am I just missing an obvious joke?

He's comparing Hartnell to a dog and then you wondered what Hartnell could fetch... get it? Dogs play fetch... I thought you did that on purpose haha.

tymed 01-10-2014 02:11 AM

voracek-giroux-schenn
hartnell-vinny-simmonds
downie-couts-read
raffl-hall-rinaldo/vdv

Damaged Goods 01-10-2014 10:36 PM

^ Agreed.

FLYERSFAN18 01-10-2014 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tymed (Post 77722829)
voracek-giroux-schenn
hartnell-vinny-simmonds
downie-couts-read
raffl-hall-rinaldo/vdv

I have rarely seen Voracek play on the left wing, I wonder if he will be as good there? I am assuming you put Schenn on RW so he will be on his off wing

Random Forest 01-10-2014 11:10 PM

I don't at all want to see Schenn on the wing again.

Giroux-Schenn-Voracek
Hartnell-Lecav-Simmonds
Downie/Raffl-Couturier-Read
Downie/Raffl-Hall-Rinaldo/VdV


If the first line doesn't work, then blow it up. But I really want to give it a shot once.

Broad Street Elite 01-10-2014 11:15 PM

Why in God's name are we changing lines right now? 10 home wins in a row, 5-1 on the last road trip, 8-2 over the last 10.

I'm keeping things as much the same as injuries will allow...

Raffl - Giroux - Voracek
Hartnell - Schenn - Simmonds
LeCavalier - Couturier - Downie
VDV - Hall - Rosehill/McGinn

Random Forest 01-10-2014 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite (Post 77777465)
Why in God's name are we changing lines right now? 10 home wins in a row, 5-1 on the last road trip, 8-2 over the last 10.

I'm keeping things as much the same as injuries will allow...

Raffl - Giroux - Voracek
Hartnell - Schenn - Simmonds
LeCavalier - Couturier - Downie
VDV - Hall - Rosehill/McGinn

Well, two things: First, I think we're just tossing out setups we'd like to see next time we shake things up (at least I am), and second, I'm not all that satisfied with 5v5 production right now. We're winning games on the strength of the second line and the PP support, but sooner than later, the second line well is going to dry up.

We're finding success now, but at the same time, I don't think it's healthy to ignore the issues that are lurking in the background. The Leafs did that, and they have totally imploded. So, yeah, I'm satisfied with the team's success, but I don't think that's necessarily justification for keeping to the status quo until the wins stop coming.

Damaged Goods 01-10-2014 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite (Post 77777465)
Why in God's name are we changing lines right now? 10 home wins in a row, 5-1 on the last road trip, 8-2 over the last 10.

I'm keeping things as much the same as injuries will allow...

Raffl - Giroux - Voracek
Hartnell - Schenn - Simmonds
LeCavalier - Couturier - Downie
VDV - Hall - Rosehill/McGinn

Well, none of us are actually the HC of the hockey team, but the lines will change sooner or later, and we all have things that we would like to see. I'm also not sure why you'd want to keep Lecavalier and Couturier together. They are a bad match right now. The team has been winning in spite of their poor chemistry, not because of it. Raffl - Giroux - Voracek haven't been lighting the world on fire as a combo for about three weeks now (as opposed to their hot stretch that lasted for one week).

Raffl - Giroux - Voracek on-ice at ES:

12/12 vs MTL: 1 goal, +1
12/15 @ WSH: 3 goals, +2
12/17 vs WSH: 1 goal, even
12/19 vs CBJ: 2 goals, +1
-
12/21 @ CBJ: 0 goals, -1
12/23 vs MIN: 1 goal, +1
12/28 @ EDM: 0 goals, -2
12/30 @ VAN: 2 goals, +2
12/31 @ CAL: 0 goals, even
01/02 @ COL: 0 goals, even (1 period -- Raffl left with injury)
01/07 @ NJD: 0 goals, even
01/08 VS MTL: 0 goals, even (Raffl scored from B. Schenn)


At least they aren't giving up goals. Those actually look more like good shut-down stats. But it's a weird place for your presumptive #1 scoring line to be. I believe Raffl may have true shut-down defensive skill and he already looks like the best defensive wing on the team outside of Read. Since Read is down and Raffl's not actually sparking offense on the top line these days, why not have him take over Read's job on the shut-down line until he recuperates?

XXXX - Giroux - Voracek
Hartnell - YYYY - Simmonds
Raffl - Couturier - Downie
Vandevelde - Hall - McGinn (by default)

Schenn and Lecavalier are your fill-in-the blanks at center and one or the other wings on a different line. Someone has to go out of position, but that's just how it stacks up right now. I understand why you'd putt Voracek on the off wing -- he's the most skilled natural winger on the team, so he's probably got the best chance to handle it. What to do with Schenn longer-term is more of a conundrum. I have no idea if his future lies at LW, C or RW and how the Flyers should prepare for that uncertainty.


Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 (Post 77777849)
Well, two things: First, I think we're just tossing out setups we'd like to see next time we shake things up (at least I am), and second, I'm not all that satisfied with 5v5 production right now. We're winning games on the strength of the second line and the PP support, but sooner than later, the second line well is going to dry up.

We're finding success now, but at the same time, I don't think it's healthy to ignore the issues that are lurking in the background. The Leafs did that, and they have totally imploded. So, yeah, I'm satisfied with the team's success, but I don't think that's necessarily justification for keeping to the status quo until the wins stop coming.

Bingo.

Azir 01-10-2014 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 (Post 77777233)
I don't at all want to see Schenn on the wing again.

Giroux-Schenn-Voracek
Hartnell-Lecav-Simmonds
Downie/Raffl-Couturier-Read
Downie/Raffl-Hall-Rinaldo/VdV


If the first line doesn't work, then blow it up. But I really want to give it a shot once.

I would like to see this too. It would be very interesting to see. But, it would probably take some extreme scoring troubles to move Giroux to the wing.

blinds 01-11-2014 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damaged Goods (Post 77778533)
Well, none of us are actually the HC of the hockey team, but the lines will change sooner or later, and we all have things that we would like to see. I'm also not sure why you'd want to keep Lecavalier and Couturier together. They are a bad match right now. The team has been winning in spite of their poor chemistry, not because of it. Raffl - Giroux - Voracek haven't been lighting the world on fire as a combo for about three weeks now (as opposed to their hot stretch that lasted for one week).

Raffl - Giroux - Voracek on-ice at ES:

12/12 vs MTL: 1 goal, +1
12/15 @ WSH: 3 goals, +2
12/17 vs WSH: 1 goal, even
12/19 vs CBJ: 2 goals, +1
-
12/21 @ CBJ: 0 goals, -1
12/23 vs MIN: 1 goal, +1
12/28 @ EDM: 0 goals, -2
12/30 @ VAN: 2 goals, +2
12/31 @ CAL: 0 goals, even
01/02 @ COL: 0 goals, even (1 period -- Raffl left with injury)
01/07 @ NJD: 0 goals, even
01/08 VS MTL: 0 goals, even (Raffl scored from B. Schenn)



At least they aren't giving up goals. Those actually look more like good shut-down stats. But it's a weird place for your presumptive #1 scoring line to be. I believe Raffl may have true shut-down defensive skill and he already looks like the best defensive wing on the team outside of Read. Since Read is down and Raffl's not actually sparking offense on the top line these days, why not have him take over Read's job on the shut-down line until he recuperates?

XXXX - Giroux - Voracek
Hartnell - YYYY - Simmonds
Raffl - Couturier - Downie
Vandevelde - Hall - McGinn (by default)

Schenn and Lecavalier are your fill-in-the blanks at center and one or the other wings on a different line. Someone has to go out of position, but that's just how it stacks up right now. I understand why you'd putt Voracek on the off wing -- he's the most skilled natural winger on the team, so he's probably got the best chance to handle it. What to do with Schenn longer-term is more of a conundrum. I have no idea if his future lies at LW, C or RW and how the Flyers should prepare for that uncertainty.




Bingo.

Jeez those numbers aren't pretty. That line has some serious problems scoring at ES, maybe its about time to take Raffl off. Count me in for trying:

Giroux - Schenn - Voracek

BillyShoe1721 01-11-2014 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tymed (Post 77722829)
voracek-giroux-schenn
hartnell-vinny-simmonds
downie-couts-read
raffl-hall-rinaldo/vdv

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damaged Goods (Post 77775143)
^ Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 (Post 77777233)
I don't at all want to see Schenn on the wing again.

Giroux-Schenn-Voracek
Hartnell-Lecav-Simmonds
Downie/Raffl-Couturier-Read
Downie/Raffl-Hall-Rinaldo/VdV


If the first line doesn't work, then blow it up. But I really want to give it a shot once.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blinds (Post 77780873)
Jeez those numbers aren't pretty. That line has some serious problems scoring at ES, maybe its about time to take Raffl off. Count me in for trying:

Giroux - Schenn - Voracek

What? You want to move Giroux to wing, let alone his off wing? These are all awful ideas. Don't touch the top six right now.

Damaged Goods 01-11-2014 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 (Post 77781905)
What? You want to move Giroux to wing, let alone his off wing? These are all awful ideas. Don't touch the top six right now.

You misread two of of those posts. Also we've got one out of three key lines going good right now.

PS: Thanks for the input.

Random Forest 01-11-2014 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 (Post 77781905)
What? You want to move Giroux to wing, let alone his off wing? These are all awful ideas. Don't touch the top six right now.

Half the top six is producing at even strength. I'll let you guess which half that is.

And I'm not so sure why people make such a big deal of players playing on their off wings. Voracek does it. Some players are more effective on certain wings, sure, but it's not always the strong wing.


I'm very happy the team is winning games, but I want to see Giroux get his even strength game going. A team can not be successful long term if it's best offensive threat is not producing consistently at even strength. Like I said, the Leafs were content just winning games, but they paid no heed to the underlying issues that were casting a shadow on their success. Well, I don't want that to happen to the Flyers. Sure, the team's winning. That doesn't mean we should be satisfied with everything.

I'm not terrified to experiment. Why is it necessary to keep G at center? He's not exactly a world beater south of the red line. I want to see Schenn playing with Giroux and Voracek, and if there's one thing that Schenn's proven, it's that he needs to be at center to be successful. That lends itself to a pretty natural solution: Giroux-Schenn-Voracek.

I mean, the top line has put up three ES goals in the last eight games. Could this idea really be that bad?

Damaged Goods 01-11-2014 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 (Post 77782517)
Half the top six is producing at even strength. I'll let you guess which half that is.

And I'm not so sure why people make such a big deal of players playing on their off wings. Voracek does it. Some players are more effective on certain wings, sure, but it's not always the strong wing.


I'm very happy the team is winning games, but I want to see Giroux get his even strength game going. A team can not be successful long term if it's best offensive threat is not producing consistently at even strength. Like I said, the Leafs were content just winning games, but they paid no heed to the underlying issues that were casting a shadow on their success. Well, I don't want that to happen to the Flyers. Sure, the team's winning. That doesn't mean we should be satisfied with everything.

I'm not terrified to experiment. Why is it necessary to keep G at center? He's not exactly a world beater south of the red line. I want to see Schenn playing with Giroux and Voracek, and if there's one thing that Schenn's proven, it's that he needs to be at center to be successful. That lends itself to a pretty natural solution: Giroux-Schenn-Voracek.

I mean, the top line has put up three ES goals in the last eight games. Could this idea really be that bad?


I'm actually not so sure that's been proven. The last two years he's been inconsistent at center and at wing. Shuffling around between different positions can't help, but it's hard to know exactly where he fits among the top-6. I'm a proponent of Giroux centering Schenn and Voracek to start off. It's a no-brainer to have Giroux taking the draws over Schenn (he's 10 points better) so you might as well keep things simple and have him be your #1 center all the time.

dats81 01-11-2014 02:37 AM

If Schenn wants to have a future on this team at center he better learn how to win a faceoff soon... it's about getting the little things right as well as the big picture.


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