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-   -   Larry Brooks: Sather must decide: Is dealing Girardi best for Rangers? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1575955)

RangerBoy 01-06-2014 04:58 AM

Sather must decide: Is dealing Girardi best for Rangers?
 
Brooks examines the issue of the Rangers trading Girardi and Callahan

Quote:

Sather must perform his due diligence and be aggressive about it. Girardi, who doesn’t turn 30 until late April, is as high-end a rental property as has gone on the market since Ilya Kovalchuk in 2010, if not Marian Hossa in 2008. The Rangers have every right — and every obligation — to demand a package of two “A” prospects, maybe already in the NHL or maybe not, plus a draft pick in return for Girardi.
Quote:

Thus, how much more value as a trade chip, rather than as a first-pair defenseman, might Girardi bring to a Ranger organization that doesn’t appear close to a championship and all but certainly will have to undertake a significant reload over the next offseason or two?
Quote:

What’s more, Sather must take exactly the same approach with Ryan Callahan, who too is a heart-and-soul guy but also is an impending unrestricted free agent and is likely to be a more expensive and more challenging signing than Girardi.
Quote:

This is the hypothetical Sather must be prepared to address: Would the Rangers be closer to the Stanley Cup with Girardi and Callahan signed to long-term contracts or with the four high-end prospects obtained in their places through lend-lease?

Losing either, or both, would represent an immediate step back, of that there is no doubt. But it is always worthwhile to take one step back in order to take two or three steps forward.

And it is far, far more worthwhile than standing in place, which for years generally has been somewhere between sixth and ninth in the East.

http://nypost.com/2014/01/06/sather-...t-for-rangers/

The Rangers aren't close to winning a championship with Girardi and Callahan. They might not make the playoffs with them in a lousy conference. The team won't be closer paying both of these players even with the cap going up.

The Rangers were scouting Vancouver-Anaheim last night. They were scouting the Sharks-Avs on Saturday. Girardi would be an ideal fit with the Ducks or Sharks.

Chimp 01-06-2014 05:10 AM

Yes please. Girardi is a horrible puckhandler, one of the worst in the league and having a top pairing D-man out on the ice alot, while also handling the puck like a live hand grenade is not a successful team.

It's all about team strategy. If we're to play the "Get it ouuuuut!" strategy, Girardi is fine. If we're supposed to play offensive hockey, Girardi is a big no.

Ail 01-06-2014 05:28 AM

I don't think they will get what Brooks assumes the return value should be. However if someone is going to pony up two "A" prospects and a pick then you take that deal. It's time to think about tomorrow Glen, not today.

dethomas07 01-06-2014 05:35 AM

Quote:

Losing either, or both, would represent an immediate step back, of that there is no doubt. But it is always worthwhile to take one step back in order to take two or three steps forward.
see thats whats scary about both these guys..

to me girardi can't not be lost, and would be real stupid to trade.. and to say he cant handle puck give me a break.. our entire d outside of G are all skating dman.. having g gives stability and strengthens the group.. losing him and callahan you minds well have wasted the past 4-5years, and just opens the door to over pay a tier below these guys..

see as ranger fans we severely under appreciate these guys and what they bring to our team.. and always think the grass is greener else where with different players in our lineup.. prospects, **** that!

darko 01-06-2014 05:41 AM

As much as I'd hate to see Girardi and Callahan go it's something that needs to be done. Rangers aren't going to (and cant) give them the money and the term they are after. You cant blame these guys for wanting to get paid. It's their last big payday. We'll be kicking ourselves if we let Girardi and Callahan walk for nothing.

jniklast 01-06-2014 05:56 AM

I'd probably rather keep Girardi than Callahan, who will be overpaid even more and would be scary on a long term deal.

haohmaru 01-06-2014 06:25 AM

Girardi eats ice time, plays against the other team's best players, and is rarely injured. Dealing him for two "A" prospects or a couple of high draft picks doesn't necessarily help this organization short OR long term. You still have to replace him and those minutes. Not easily done. I sign him to a lengthy deal. If we don't, someone will.

RangerBoy 01-06-2014 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dethomas07 (Post 77447857)
see thats whats scary about both these guys..

to me girardi can't not be lost, and would be real stupid to trade.. and to say he cant handle puck give me a break.. our entire d outside of G are all skating dman.. having g gives stability and strengthens the group.. losing him and callahan you minds well have wasted the past 4-5years, and just opens the door to over pay a tier below these guys..

see as ranger fans we severely under appreciate these guys and what they bring to our team.. and always think the grass is greener else where with different players in our lineup.. prospects, **** that!

You want to keep the same team and the same problems. You're afraid of change. Keeping these guys and giving them major commitments insures the status quo.

Its a business for the player and the team. These players have no issues about leaving for more money so why should the fans have blind loyalty to these players.

Then you blame the coach. Its always the coach.

Somehow the Rangers will survive the losses of Girardi and Callahan.

bmoak 01-06-2014 06:36 AM

It'd be a lot easier to move Girardi if the Rangers still had Sauer. C'est la vie.

GWOW 01-06-2014 06:42 AM

Ryan Smyth was a top line goal scorer in 2007. Not even close to being one of the best, he was just a good top-3 goal scorer.

Everyone knew he had no desire to stay on the East Coast, yet still, Snow had to pay Edmonton a steep price for a month or two of play.

Granted, OMarra, Plante and Nillson all stink/stunk, but at the time it was akin to us trading Miller, McIlrath and a 2014 1st rounder to Buffalo for Moulson.

Callahan is an Olympian. Nuff said. He will return pretty close to what Smyth netted -- Two prospects and a 1st rounder

Girardi did us all a favor by having a great game on national TV. There are teams right now where he would step in and be an immediate No. 1/top-pairing guy.

Two prospects and a 1st rounder.

Del Zotto is a former blue chip who may not fetch a whole lot. Maybe underachiever for underachiever straight up (Del Zotto for Schroeder, Del Zotto for Rundblad, Del Zotto for Kulikov along those lines)

Sather needs to get into Chiarelli/Bowman mode. Identify your untradables. Then make moves.

Right now, it should be Lundqvist, Kreider, Stepan, McDonagh...maybe Hagelin, maybe Miller. I would say Zuccarello too, for now.

Everybody else should be on notice.

GWOW 01-06-2014 06:46 AM

Chiarelli identified Kessel as a problem and wasted no time trading him. Big whoop. He traded a lottery pick who developed into an all-star Olympian sniper. Two SCF appearances later........

Same with Seguin. Drool all you want at what he's doing in Dallas, but he was a problem. Boston doesnt mess around in that locker room. Massively loyal to one another. Lucic gets into bar fights and insults his girl in public and nobody in Boston bats an eye.

Chiarelli turned one lottery pick (Kessel) into Seguin and Hamilton, and now is left with Hamilton, Morrow, Smith, Fraser (who could be another Lucic) and Erikkson.

Brilliant.

nyr2k2 01-06-2014 06:54 AM

I'd really like to keep one of the two. While we're not close to contending at this point, I don't know that we're so far away that we need to blow everything up. Richards will almost certainly be gone next season, so that's another big change.

Is it really time to become a full-fledged seller? It sucks if it is.

Glen Teflon Sather 01-06-2014 06:58 AM

Give them whatever they want, I'd hate to see them in any other sweater. They're our guys, they're our core, blank check offers. Why? Because #YOLO:sarcasm:

SML 01-06-2014 07:14 AM

Trade them all. Get in the market on the ones you liked when free agency opens. I would trade Callahan before the olympics. Nightmare scenario is he gets hurt there and is out until past the trade deadlune. You just cant take that chance.

haohmaru 01-06-2014 07:22 AM

The whole problem with this (and Brooks nails this) when looking at Girardi is he's a 1st pairing RD. Look at the trouble we've had filling the THIRD pairing RD. Good freakin' luck finding someone to play the right side along with McD. The whole league needs quality first pairing RD.

No way do I move Girardi. Callahan, yes, if the return is right.

GAGLine 01-06-2014 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haohmaru (Post 77448823)
The whole problem with this (and Brooks nails this) when looking at Girardi is he's a 1st pairing RD. Look at the trouble we've had filling the THIRD pairing RD. Good freakin' luck finding someone to play the right side along with McD. The whole league needs quality first pairing RD.

No way do I move Girardi. Callahan, yes, if the return is right.

For how much longer will Girardi be a 1st pair dman? What do we do when that is no longer the case? If we could re-sign Girardi, find someone to take his place, and then trade him, that would work too.

But as you asked, where is his replacement coming from? Well, couldn't we trade him for his replacement? It might take a couple years for that player to reach Girardi's current level, but he would presumably be much younger than Girardi and be able to sustain that level for more years than Girardi. I don't know who that player is. That's what management gets paid to figure out. Yes, it's a gamble, but so is re-signing Girardi and hoping he will continue to play at a high level into his 30s.

RGY 01-06-2014 07:37 AM

I think you keep Girardi over Callahan. While I think Girardi would bring back some great assets, I don't think we can afford trading a RHD which is what we have been trying to add for awhile now, especially one who has been a stalwart in the 1st/2nd pair for years now.

Problem with trading Callahan is it could be a lose/lose for the fan base if we don't get a return we feel is worthy enough. Heart and soul guy who has been beloved by this fan base.

Gardner McKay 01-06-2014 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyr2k2 (Post 77448555)
I'd really like to keep one of the two. While we're not close to contending at this point, I don't know that we're so far away that we need to blow everything up. Richards will almost certainly be gone next season, so that's another big change.

Is it really time to become a full-fledged seller? It sucks if it is.

I agree. I think keeping one of them would be ideal. Id prefer to keep Girardi but as you pointed out, Richards will be gone which I think will incline slats to keep Callahan if anything.

HatTrick Swayze 01-06-2014 07:42 AM

And how did the "2-3 steps forward" work out in the Hossa and Kovalchuk deals?

I really can't wait til the "soooo how do we improve our defense??" posts start popping up.

NYR Viper 01-06-2014 07:43 AM

Larry is spot on with this. Those assets that will come back will help the Rangers push upwards as an organization. I love both guys. They have played their hearts out for the Rangers for their entire careers, but they will be massively overpaid as the cap is going up and the UFA market is barren.

NYR Viper 01-06-2014 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze (Post 77449141)
And how did the "2-3 steps forward" work out in the Hossa and Kovalchuk deals?

I really can't wait til the "soooo how do we improve our defense??" posts start popping up.

Their management was also awful and they were not spending anywhere close to the cap and they had issues with their ownership etc.

eco's bones 01-06-2014 07:46 AM

Brooks poses the question well.

Would the assets the Rangers got back for trading Girardi be worth what it would take to fill his position? Stralman is another right D UFA--should we sign or trade him by the deadline?

IMO Stralman is good enough as the 2nd pairing guy. I don't really think he's cut out to be a 1st pairing guy. Rangers move Girardi and that will be a specific need and there might be a huge contract going to some UFA replacement.

Somewhat the same scenario for Callahan but I don't see him bringing back as much.

We do nothing we might lose both through inertia in July.

Basically it comes down to sign or trade.

Brooks at least has the compensation package about right. Girardi should bring back multiple top level prospects/young players/draft picks. He's a guy that most likely goes to legit contending teams--a guy those teams will look to to put them over the top. Both Girardi and Callahan if moved will have a very good chance to win a Stanley Cup.

HatTrick Swayze 01-06-2014 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYR Viper (Post 77449181)
Their management was also awful and they were not spending anywhere close to the cap and they had issues with their ownership etc.

Awful management, where have I heard that before. Who is the best player acquired for either? Johnny Oduya? Colby Armstrong?

A mid 20s pick and a prospect sounds nice now but the reality is far, far from certain.

shinchanyo 01-06-2014 07:48 AM

The team 100% is in need of a rebuild. Callahan, Girardi, MDZ, Nash, brassard, Richards. All of these are guys who could be or should be gone. Sorry Hank. The thing is that the team clearly functipons without Callahan so this isn't that big a deal. The team has been functioning without MDZ. The team has been functioning without Nash. Lose all 3 AND Girardi and the team will be set back in a significant way for a good 2 or 3 years. So? It happens. Just don't lose 3 of these guys for nothing which we seem to be about to do. Worse don't commit the future to these guys. I fully believe they will be pretty bad contracts for whoever signs them.

Ail 01-06-2014 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze (Post 77449141)
And how did the "2-3 steps forward" work out in the Hossa and Kovalchuk deals?

I really can't wait til the "soooo how do we improve our defense??" posts start popping up.

So just re-sign everyone forever with no game plan for the future because some other deals that weren't even the same situations didn't work out. That's some really great reasoning.

Guess how keeping them both is going to work out for this franchise? Spoiler: it doesn't.


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