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-   -   Player Discussion: Peter Laviolette (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1578451)

Larry Hoover 01-09-2014 02:20 PM

Peter Laviolette
 
Obviously PL isn't a player but I thought it would be an appropriate prefix. I'm a Leafs fan here and starting to think that it is possible Carlyle gets fired. Laviolette is available and may be the appropriate successor for RC. I was just wondering if I could get a "scouting report" on Lavy.

I know he's a hot head but is he a players coach? What type of style does he coach both defensively and offensively? How does he like to utilize players, etc...

I am looking for as much information as possible so I appreciate all response but please refrain from the "Oh he's a terrible coach and a hothead" as that information is of no value to me. I want to know his systems, player usage, etc...

Thanks everyone.

JDinkalage Morgoone 01-09-2014 02:26 PM

He seems to be good for the short term in helping a team turnaround. He has trouble making adjustments. He almost ruined Sean Couturier.

Beef Invictus 01-09-2014 02:26 PM

Lavi has his style, and he has his game plan. Once those are in place there is no changing. Adjustment to the big picture is slow, in game adjustments to strategy nearly non-existent.

To succeed, ideally his team needs to have the ability to move up the ice quickly. Good two-way players are crucial, because they need to use their defensive judgement...otherwise, because Lavi wants everyone moving up the ice constantly, you can get situations where the D doesn't have enough forward support. Mobile Dmen are important.

If your team has those things you'll get the most out of Lavi. Either way he seems like a good guy to give a team a kick in the nads, but his shelf life is short.

He is bad at developing young talent. He doesn't really bother to coach defense (or practice it, apparently), so veterans who already know how to play at both ends are a must.

If Toronto has all of that, go for it. If not, hold off. Lavi is best for a team that's built to contend but isn't performing up to snuff. If you're looking to finish building a team I don't know if he's the guy you want. Based on Toronto's current defensive struggles, I don't know if he would be an improvement. He isn't going to coach a team up defensively...they'll just be whatever they already are.

orange is better 01-09-2014 02:26 PM

Laviolette is a tremendous coach for as long as his personnel buy into his uptempo system. You need a very mobile defense that good positionally because the system tends to yield odd man rushes otherwise (thus why his system was so much more effective when pronger was healthy). It's fun system to watch while the teams buying into it, but lavi has and always has had a short shelf life. One thing to keep in mind though is that he has a reputation of being stubborn and unwilling to bend on switching things up on the fly or adjusting to the way other teams play him. I don't know if that stems from an inability to do so, or an inflated ego, but it's an issue of his nonetheless.

If the leafs end up with lavi, get ready for some exciting hockey for about a season and a half to 2 seasons until it quickly turns to ****.

FlyersFan61290 01-09-2014 02:26 PM

Oh he's a terrible coach and a hothead

Roo Mad Bro 01-09-2014 02:30 PM

He's an offensive minded coach. Stresses skating because he likes his team to push the tempo so much.

Dmen pinch quite a lot in the offensive zone.

A good coach who in all likelihood has a shelf life (3 years is a good estimate). He gets a lot out of his players, and you can be sure to see improvements in the first year while he is there.

Great use of the timeout. Has a good feel as to when to use it.

Sometimes frustrating in the way he used players. He got totally outclassed in the 2011 playoffs against Boston when they got swept. Continuously matched up Briere's line against Bergeron's line (or someone else can't remember right now) and they were getting absolutely hammered at ES. His use of Couturier was a hot topic here.

It seems like the young players have played better since he left, so take that for what it is worth.

Funf 01-09-2014 02:30 PM

His system was all about offense, and hitting the neutral zone with speed. Often times leaving the defense out to dry. It really only works with a couple really solid puck moving defensemen, and very strong, defensive forwards. Other than shot blocking, it seemed like he put very little emphasis on team defense.

I like Lavi, but he didn't work with the players we have here now, and he doesn't seem to have the ability to adapt. Two years ago in the playoffs, the Devils really exposed our system/personnel issues, and he really made no strides to try to fix anything. If I remember correctly, at the start of the season after that, he had the D playing really conservatively at the blue line, and our offense really suffered from it. It didn't last too long and he went right back into the old system.

Oh, and yeah, count me in as one of the people who feel he destroyed Couturiers confidence.

Edit: I want to point out that his system reminds me a bit of what Quenneville has in place in Chicago. I don't watch a lot of Hawks games, so I'm not too sure about the intricacies there, but the general, up tempo, hard skating style is pretty close.

Flyerss 01-09-2014 02:36 PM

high tempo game, he will get the best out of Kessel,JVR,Lupul,Kadri , Bolland might become his work horse since he's a good 2-way center, The defense will suffer if the offense can't score every-time, you should be expecting from Bernier to bail you a lot of times.

the offense need to show up and play the system everything will be good for the first 3-5years.


and also NO TURNOVERS or fast players like Grabner,Duchene,Stalberg will butcher you.

Beef Invictus 01-09-2014 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro (Post 77676091)
He's an offensive minded coach. Stresses skating because he likes his team to push the tempo so much.

Dmen pinch quite a lot in the offensive zone.

A good coach who in all likelihood has a shelf life (3 years is a good estimate). He gets a lot out of his players, and you can be sure to see improvements in the first year while he is there.

Great use of the timeout. Has a good feel as to when to use it.

Sometimes frustrating in the way he used players. He got totally outclassed in the 2011 playoffs against Boston when they got swept. Continuously matched up Briere's line against Bergeron's line (or someone else can't remember right now) and they were getting absolutely hammered at ES. His use of Couturier was a hot topic here.

It seems like the young players have played better since he left, so take that for what it is worth.

I believe it was Krejci's, and it was a slaughter. I'm pretty sure, with last change, he even put them out there in our own zone, which is just stupid.

JackStraw 01-09-2014 02:37 PM

D-men have to be good on the transition (getting pucks up ice cleanly and quickly) or you're looking at the kind of season the Flyers had last year. Not pretty.

FlyersFan61290 01-09-2014 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyerss (Post 77676447)
high tempo game, he will get the best out of Kessel,JVR,Lupul,Kadri , Bolland might become his work horse since he's a good 2-way center, The defense will suffer if the offense can't score every-time, you should be expecting from Bernier to bail you a lot of times.

the offense need to show up and play the system everything will be good for the first 3-5years.


and also NO TURNOVERS or fast players like Grabner,Duchene,Stalberg will butcher you.

3-5 years?

More like 2

JDinkalage Morgoone 01-09-2014 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyerss (Post 77676447)
high tempo game, he will get the best out of Kessel,JVR,Lupul,Kadri , Bolland might become his work horse since he's a good 2-way center, The defense will suffer if the offense can't score every-time, you should be expecting from Bernier to bail you a lot of times.
the offense need to show up and play the system everything will be good for the first 3-5years.


and also NO TURNOVERS or fast players like Grabner,Duchene,Stalberg will butcher you.

Seems like that's already the case. Toronto is outshot pretty badly most games from what I gather.

Flyerss 01-09-2014 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 (Post 77676921)
3-5 years?

More like 2

3 with Flyers and i think 4 with Carolina.

Larry Hoover 01-09-2014 02:54 PM

So it seems like the consensus is Laviolette's coaching style will do well with our offensive players (Kadri, Lupul, Kessel, JvR & possibly Holland if he's back up). As well, Bolland, D'amigo, McClement & Kulemin, our best defensive forwards will be relied on heavily with him. Raymond is a fast, talented offensive player who is respectable defensively so I assume he'll fit in as well. How will Clarkson do with Lavy? He's not fast by any mean but a strong, physical, possession player? I'm guessing Bozak will be relied on heavily as well for being a strong all around player.

As for our D we have Phaneuf, Gardiner, Rielly, Gunnarsson, Ranger, Franson & Gleason. I'm assuming this system will work well for our offensive guys who can skate (Gardiner, Rielly) but will Franson's poor defense be exposed? He's a great passer, and a physical player in the D-zone but isn't too good outside of that defensively. Phaneuf isn't very fast but he's mobile because of his excellent anticipation and positioning. Gunnarsson has been playing injured the last two seasons but he has a solid 1st pass and can skate fine. Ranger isn't fast but he has a really good stick and can make a first pass. I guess I should be worried about him if we get Lavy.

Obviously Reimer & Bernier have done really well and should allow us to play a more offensive style.

El Dandy* 01-09-2014 03:04 PM

Hide your soda machines.

Roo Mad Bro 01-09-2014 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beef Invictus (Post 77676451)
I believe it was Krejci's, and it was a slaughter. I'm pretty sure, with last change, he even put them out there in our own zone, which is just stupid.

I think you're right.

That line was absolutely demolished by Krejci's line. I'd love to see the stats for that series.

And he never tried getting Briere's line away from that line.

edit:
Quote:

Yes, Peter Laviolette completely wasted the Briere line. It's mind-boggling that he would do that. It is the exact opposite of what he should have done.
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...nst-the-bruins

PhillyFlying 01-09-2014 03:57 PM

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/201...hes-leno-o.gif

leino hasn't been the same player since. :sarcasm:

Garbage Goal 01-09-2014 04:28 PM

Everyone has covered him well. He's a very aggressive coach in just about every way.

Tries to utilize offensive systems, pinches D in a lot, wants to always be moving up the ice, etc. He doesn't stress defensive play much or practice being heavily systematic. He's more of a "Attack, attack, attack!" kind of coach if that makes sense.

You also need a team that fits the Laviolette mold to win since he doesn't adapt a different style really (though that's a criticism of almost every coach ever really). Not a good coach to rebuild with or to even put on a middling team I don't think.

Due to his heavily offense-oriented style, his innately extremely short shelf life, and his record of pushing teams over the top when they were ready (Cup win in Carolina, SCF appearance in Philly) I wouldn't recommend him for Toronto since they're unlikely to be primed for a Cup right now. Maybe in the near future, but not now in the current situation in this season.

He's also utilized timeouts way better then anyone I've ever seen. Seemed like the team would score a goal or play like world beaters every time he called a timeout up until his last season here or so. Not sure if it means anything, but nevertheless.

Flyerfan4life 01-09-2014 08:17 PM

coach with a well exposed system that is easy to counter and hes to stuuborn to make ANY changes.

look elsewere

Bernie Parent 1974 01-09-2014 08:22 PM

the thing the team says berube does more than lavy is:

make them skate harder in practice to be in better shape late in games.

good god, should every coach strive for this ??? how did it take berube to come up with this concept ??

GKJ 01-09-2014 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 (Post 77700393)
the thing the team says berube does more than lavy is:

make them skate harder in practice to be in better shape late in games.

good god, should every coach strive for this ??? how did it take berube to come up with this concept ??

He didn't.


The first thing Lavy said to the media was that the team wasn't in shape to run his system. They spent 2 weeks, giving up points in the standings, just getting to the point where the team could physically run his system.


His record is that once teams learn his system, he gets the best out of them in the first year or two.

-Took the Islanders to the playoffs twice.
-Won the Cup with the Hurricanes in his first full year.
-Went to the Finals the year he was hired with the Flyers.


He gets what he's looking for quickly, turns around underacheivers, before the shelf-life starts to run. That's his record. All the people with the 'system is exposed' and 'he forgot how to coach' comments are either willfully ignorant or completely oblivious.

FlyerSithLord 01-09-2014 09:32 PM

Laviolette's biggest flaw, IMO, is that he doesn't know how to handle goaltending. He caught lightning in a bottle in 2006 switching from Gerber to Ward and thought that was a sound philosophy.

I hold him as responsible as anyone for the 2010-2011 playoff debacle.

Tripod 01-09-2014 10:51 PM

I actually think Lavi is the perfect coach for Toronto.

They have lots of PMD, can skate like he wind, like offense, and have goalies who are used to not being sheltered.

Garbage Goal 01-09-2014 11:38 PM

Yeah, the biggest things wrong with Laviolette is that I imagine he'd be a disaster with a roster like Nashville or Phoenix and that he always has had a really short shelf life at the NHL level. It's why I wouldn't recommend him to any team that isn't certain they can compete well.

FreshPerspective 01-10-2014 06:59 AM

Look elsewhere....Lavi and his system have been exposed as fraudulant.

But seriously..my main gripe is that the dude does not adjust well and is stubborn. When things don't work right he juggles his lines wayyyy to much and sucks at doing so because he plays favorites. I mean he is making Berube look like a genius when many of Berube's adjustments have been basic and common sense. Not sure if Lavi just became frustrated and couldn't figure adjustments out but he certainly became stale and lost the buy in to his system especially when teams like NJ kept neutering the Flyers and would make comments like ..."they are predictable"


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