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-   -   NYI/Nash Trade Proposal (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=15788)

officeglen 09-30-2003 06:58 PM

NYI/Nash Trade Proposal
 
Nashville: Roman Hamrlik & Radek Martinek
[COLOR=darkorange[[/B]Islanders:[/b] Denis Arkhipov & Kimmo Timonen & Jason York[/color]

Fishsticks get a big forward to play with Yashin one would play LW, the other C. If you consider Y a vowel, you can add in Asham and make a new vowel line. Timonen, who can replace the ice time of Hamrlik, could be paired with Ninimaa to give finish to the play-by-play guys.

Nash your teeth get Hamrlik, a #1 D who can handle heavy minutes, something this young & talented team needs to make the playoffs. Radek Martinek provides a 5/6/7 D to help a weak spot with the team. The team has many good but not great forwards and can afford to trade one for a D upgrade.

York is just a salary dump and filler, used to balance the salary exchange between the two teams, and to provide some sort of replacement for Martinek.

Since country music is less represented on this board, Ill help defend their interest (as best I can) against the Dark orange side.

andora 09-30-2003 07:03 PM

this could get interesting.. (not in negative way)

SmokeyClause 09-30-2003 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by officeglen
Since country music is less represented on this board, Ill help defend their interest (as best I can) against the Dark orange side.

There's more activity on Nashville's board than on the Isle (by a 2 to 1 margin). Seems like the fishsticks need the help, not the Preds.

I wouldn't mind having Hamrlik though.

Tiki 09-30-2003 07:12 PM

My biggest problem is we Don't have the depth to be Moving two Dmen right now even with Getting one back. With Timmander basicly being told he's not part of the Isles plans the Makes Martinek #5 Carins #6 and Butchenshen (sp) the #7 on the Isles.

There's no way I want a full time 3rd pair of Sven and Carins.

I would rather stick with the current plan to see if one of our young guys can fill in a forward spot than move Hammer as well.

So far all of Papineau, Hunter, Mapletoft, and Bergnhime are haveing good camps. Compound that with Weinhandl who's been out with an injury and we already have a very tight race for one or possibly two spots.

This is just not a big enough upgrade for me to move Hammer at this point.

-Tiki

Tiki 09-30-2003 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
There's more activity on Nashville's board than on the Isle (by a 2 to 1 margin). Seems like the fishsticks need the help, not the Preds.

I wouldn't mind having Hamrlik. I'd rather just pass on Martinek though and throw in a pick (or maybe a 3rd pairing Dman). We have too many of him.

That's because Most of the Isles poster do not visit the team board all that frequently. There are a ton of very active Isles fans who just stick to the main forums here.

Not saying you guy don't have the support, just that the 2 to 1 number is a little misleading.

Enoch 09-30-2003 07:15 PM

hmmm...thats a thinker. Nashville would most likely pass as Timmonen has signed a long term deal at cheaper than Hammer whose contract expires this year i believe.

barrytrotzsneck 09-30-2003 07:15 PM

we can't afford to give you timonen AND york. that's trading our number one and number 2...for a better number one. I'd rather do it this way...

Timonen+Arkhipov- Hamrlik+draft pick.

Tiki 09-30-2003 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomorekids
we can't afford to give you timonen AND york. that's trading our number one and number 2...for a better number one. I'd rather do it this way...

Timonen+Arkhipov- Hamrlik+draft pick.


That type of deal would make better sense from an Isles depth standpoint. Jason York IMO has never been much of a Dman but could have improved much over the past few season with me noticing.

I like Martinek's upside better than having a guy such as York. IMO Martinek has some very nice offensve upside if he can get his defensive zone play down better he coudl become a top 4 type guy.

-Tiki

Trottier 09-30-2003 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
There's more activity on Nashville's board than on the Isle (by a 2 to 1 margin).

Quantity vs. quality. :lol:

BTW, Isles don't make that deal.

Draftman 10-01-2003 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
There's more activity on Nashville's board than on the Isle (by a 2 to 1 margin).

The main reason is that Islanders fans have their own separate site. It's where we can post without all the jabber from the numerous morons that have found this place.

I can't tell you where it is for three reasons: 1. because of your post, 2. you don't know the secret handshake, and 3. you have bad breath.
:)

PuckU 10-01-2003 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draftman
The main reason is that Islanders fans have their own separate site. It's where we can post without all the jabber from the numerous morons that have found this place.

I can't tell you where it is for three reasons: 1. because of your post, 2. you don't know the secret handshake, and 3. you have bad breath.
:)


Can you name a few of the islander sites you speak of?

CREW99AW 10-01-2003 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuckU
Can you name a few of the islander sites you speak of?

Last yr someone asked for the link to one of the more popular ones and I posted it,then was asked/told not to give the link out :D

Enoch 10-01-2003 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW
Last yr someone asked for the link to one of the more popular ones and I posted it,then was asked/told not to give the link out :D

all lies

PuckU 10-01-2003 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW
Last yr someone asked for the link to one of the more popular ones and I posted it,then was asked/told not to give the link out :D


I don't get it, but okay.

Darth Milbury 10-01-2003 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
There's more activity on Nashville's board than on the Isle (by a 2 to 1 margin). Seems like the fishsticks need the help, not the Preds.

I wouldn't mind having Hamrlik though.

I can't even begin to understand your reasoning here. There is more activity on Nashville's board here, and so that suggest that the Isles are in need of help? Explain.....

Isles fans have a different site that we all frequent. The fact that there is more "activity" on the Nashville board means absolutely nothing.

Darth Milbury 10-01-2003 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiki
That's because Most of the Isles poster do not visit the team board all that frequently. There are a ton of very active Isles fans who just stick to the main forums here.

Not saying you guy don't have the support, just that the 2 to 1 number is a little misleading.


I lived in Nashville for 7 years (I have a Ph.D. from Vanderbilt) and still go back there every few months and also have many friends there. Trust me, hockey is an afterthought to most Nashvillians. Most of the people I talk to down there could give a hoot and many are convinced that the Preds will eventually move on. Nashville is a great city, but a hockey town it is not.

Mizral 10-01-2003 09:40 AM

I'd say the Preds get the short end of the stick on this one.

Hamrlik makes $4.5 million and Timmonen makes much less - realistically, I see their trade value about equal.

Arkhipov has potential, but hasn't lived up to it, yet. I agree, he is a type of player that the Isles could use. Arkhipov for Martinek isn't a terrible idea.

Adding in York is where it gets bad. You claim he is a salary dump - did you see this guy last year? He played very well and was the Preds' 2nd best defenseman (okay, not a great feat, but not bad just the same). I would put York's value far, far above Martinek's or Arkhipov's.

I think this could be simplified to simply be Martinrk for Arkhipov, though.

Darth Milbury 10-01-2003 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by officeglen
Nashville: Roman Hamrlik & Radek Martinek
[COLOR=darkorange[[/B]Islanders:[/b] Denis Arkhipov & Kimmo Timonen & Jason York[/color]

Fishsticks get a big forward to play with Yashin one would play LW, the other C. If you consider Y a vowel, you can add in Asham and make a new vowel line. Timonen, who can replace the ice time of Hamrlik, could be paired with Ninimaa to give finish to the play-by-play guys.

Nash your teeth get Hamrlik, a #1 D who can handle heavy minutes, something this young & talented team needs to make the playoffs. Radek Martinek provides a 5/6/7 D to help a weak spot with the team. The team has many good but not great forwards and can afford to trade one for a D upgrade.

York is just a salary dump and filler, used to balance the salary exchange between the two teams, and to provide some sort of replacement for Martinek.

.

Nice try, Officeglen, but I'd pass. Timonen is a nice young defensemen but the Isles can't afford to trade their most physical top four guy for a 5'10" dman. The rest of the deal doens't add enough to be of interest.

Also, Nashvegas would never want to add Hamrlik's salary and impending RFA status (not that I blame them).

barrytrotzsneck 10-01-2003 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I lived in Nashville for 7 years (I have a Ph.D. from Vanderbilt) and still go back there every few months and also have many friends there. Trust me, hockey is an afterthought to most Nashvillians. Most of the people I talk to down there could give a hoot and many are convinced that the Preds will eventually move on. Nashville is a great city, but a hockey town it is not.

and to MOST residents of Dallas, it's not a hockey town either. Nor is Tampa Bay. To be honest...I live in the NYC area, at the moment...and no one really cares about anyone that isn't the Yankees, on the whole. As long as a team has dedicated fans(which you can't really tell from living in a city, sometimes) then the "hockey town vs. non-hockey town" debate is irrelevant. If you pay attention around these boards...you'll notice that nashville's fans might not be the greatest in number...but they are as dedicated to their team as any fans on this board...in many cases...more dedicated. the USA, with a few exceptions, isn't a hockey COUNTRY, at this point...but that can change, and hopefully will. Nashville represents one battle in a larger war...and we, as fans, feel comfortable with the contribution that we're bringing forth.

Miz...you read my mind, buddy. I was actually thinking about this in the shower, this morning...and I thought, "why not take hamrlik, timonen, york out of the equation...and just make this trade Arky\Martinek?" i think that short term, this benefits the Preds a bit more, but long-term...the Isles probably win this trade...but it's a worthwhile sacrifice for the Preds, at this moment. They're one NHL defenseman from feeling completely comfortable(as per Poile) and Martinek could be a solid third-pairing guy, for us.

CREW99AW 10-01-2003 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuckU
I don't get it, but okay.


I think they don't want anyone trolling.

Darth Milbury 10-01-2003 10:15 AM

[QUOTE=nomorekids]and to MOST residents of Dallas, it's not a hockey town either. Nor is Tampa Bay. To be honest...I live in the NYC area, at the moment...and no one really cares about anyone that isn't the Yankees, on the whole. As long as a team has dedicated fans(which you can't really tell from living in a city, sometimes) then the "hockey town vs. non-hockey town" debate is irrelevant. If you pay attention around these boards...you'll notice that nashville's fans might not be the greatest in number...but they are as dedicated to their team as any fans on this board...in many cases...more dedicated. the USA, with a few exceptions, isn't a hockey COUNTRY, at this point...but that can change, and hopefully will. Nashville represents one battle in a larger war...and we, as fans, feel comfortable with the contribution that we're bringing forth.

[QUOTE]

NHL cities that I lived in include Nashville, NY, Washington, DC, and Philly. I also spent quite a bit of time outside of Chicago. I would say that, of all those cities, Nashville is the least likely to sustain a team over time. There just isn't that much interest in hockey in the south.

By the way, that is not a shot at Nashville, or the fans at this board. However, I think the previous posters' ridiculous inference that somehow Nashville has a stronger fan base than the Isles because of number of posts on a forum is pretty weak. I'm personally not at all convinced that hockey is going to remain viable in Nashville, despite the passion of knowledgable fans like yourself. Most people I talk to down there, see hockey as a novelty sport like arena football. There is far more interest in NCAA basketball, the NFL, SEC college football, and Nascar. Hockey is not even on the radar. Heck, I think there is more interest in women's basketball in Nashville than their is in hockey.

The difference between southern cities like Dallas and Atlanta and places like Nashville and Carolina is one of size. Dallas and Atlanta are so big that those cities could probably sustain teams even if per captia interest is relatively low. As you know, Nashville has been boomtown over the last decade, but there still isn't enough of a population base to support a sport that only appeals to a very small percentage of the area.

barrytrotzsneck 10-01-2003 10:31 AM

[QUOTE=Darth Milbury][QUOTE=nomorekids]and to MOST residents of Dallas, it's not a hockey town either. Nor is Tampa Bay. To be honest...I live in the NYC area, at the moment...and no one really cares about anyone that isn't the Yankees, on the whole. As long as a team has dedicated fans(which you can't really tell from living in a city, sometimes) then the "hockey town vs. non-hockey town" debate is irrelevant. If you pay attention around these boards...you'll notice that nashville's fans might not be the greatest in number...but they are as dedicated to their team as any fans on this board...in many cases...more dedicated. the USA, with a few exceptions, isn't a hockey COUNTRY, at this point...but that can change, and hopefully will. Nashville represents one battle in a larger war...and we, as fans, feel comfortable with the contribution that we're bringing forth.

Quote:


NHL cities that I lived in include Nashville, NY, Washington, DC, and Philly. I also spent quite a bit of time outside of Chicago. I would say that, of all those cities, Nashville is the least likely to sustain a team over time. There just isn't that much interest in hockey in the south.

By the way, that is not a shot at Nashville, or the fans at this board. However, I think the previous posters' ridiculous inference that somehow Nashville has a stronger fan base than the Isles because of number of posts on a forum is pretty weak. I'm personally not at all convinced that hockey is going to remain viable in Nashville, despite the passion of knowledgable fans like yourself. Most people I talk to down there, see hockey as a novelty sport like arena football. There is far more interest in NCAA basketball, the NFL, SEC college football, and Nascar. Hockey is not even on the radar. Heck, I think there is more interest in women's basketball in Nashville than their is in hockey.

The difference between southern cities like Dallas and Atlanta and places like Nashville and Carolina is one of size. Dallas and Atlanta are so big that those cities could probably sustain teams even if per captia interest is relatively low. As you know, Nashville has been boomtown over the last decade, but there still isn't enough of a population base to support a sport that only appeals to a very small percentage of the area.
i do know what you're saying, but i think that we're going to have to agree to disagree over the longevity of hockey in nashville. there hasn't been widespread interest for one important fact: the predators haven't really been a very competitive team. I do, however, see that changing on the not-too-distant horizon. nashville fans are, god love them, fickle. last year, when the titans(the biggest game in town, no doubt about it) started off winless, you might as well have imagined tumbleweed blowing around their fan base. car flags disappeared, jersies were worn only to games(which were still sold out...but that's true of football games across the board, in most cases) but the support grew very quiet. nashville loves a winner, and quickly turns a blind shoulder on a loser. when nashville surged to within 2 points of a playoff spot last march, the entire town was buzzing. people who had long shown no interest in hockey began asking me, "so, did the preds win last night?" or "that guy vokoun sounds like he's something special." attendance rose, media coverage rose...nashville had another winner to get behind. call me crazy, but i, in my heart...believe that nashville is a couple of years away from being not just a competitor...but a consistent competitor. as the on-ice product improves(which it is, with exciting youngsters beginning to mature into solid performers) so will interest in hockey. it was easy FOR me to get behind a team that iced names like Cote, Krivokrasov, Kjellburg and Berehowsky...but I love hockey, and I loved the Predators no matter how questionable the players were...but I'm starting to see a team that is genuinley OURS...with names that could actually be an impact...rather than just a mixed-deck full of journeyman never-has-beens. Names like Legwand, Hartnell, Timonen...obviously...but then even brighter spots in the future...Hamhuis, Upshall, Suter, Shishkanov...and someoen that has already taken the non-hockey fan in nashville by storm...Jordin Tootoo. I feel that Nashville is finally acquiring the pieces, and it's only a matter of putting them together...and that when they do...the support will only grow from there. They have the luxury of time in that they're NOT in financial trouble...operating at only a slight loss, due to a fantastic lease with the GEC and a relatively low payroll..and I think that the owners\GM believe in what we're doing...however slowly...making a team that will change people's minds.

Darth Milbury 10-01-2003 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomorekids
i do know what you're saying, but i think that we're going to have to agree to disagree over the longevity of hockey in nashville. there hasn't been widespread interest for one important fact: the predators haven't really been a very competitive team. I do, however, see that changing on the not-too-distant horizon. nashville fans are, god love them, fickle. last year, when the titans(the biggest game in town, no doubt about it) started off winless, you might as well have imagined tumbleweed blowing around their fan base. car flags disappeared, jersies were worn only to games(which were still sold out...but that's true of football games across the board, in most cases) but the support grew very quiet. nashville loves a winner, and quickly turns a blind shoulder on a loser. when nashville surged to within 2 points of a playoff spot last march, the entire town was buzzing. people who had long shown no interest in hockey began asking me, "so, did the preds win last night?" or "that guy vokoun sounds like he's something special." attendance rose, media coverage rose...nashville had another winner to get behind. call me crazy, but i, in my heart...believe that nashville is a couple of years away from being not just a competitor...but a consistent competitor. as the on-ice product improves(which it is, with exciting youngsters beginning to mature into solid performers) so will interest in hockey. it was easy FOR me to get behind a team that iced names like Cote, Krivokrasov, Kjellburg and Berehowsky...but I love hockey, and I loved the Predators no matter how questionable the players were...but I'm starting to see a team that is genuinley OURS...with names that could actually be an impact...rather than just a mixed-deck full of journeyman never-has-beens. Names like Legwand, Hartnell, Timonen...obviously...but then even brighter spots in the future...Hamhuis, Upshall, Suter, Shishkanov...and someoen that has already taken the non-hockey fan in nashville by storm...Jordin Tootoo. I feel that Nashville is finally acquiring the pieces, and it's only a matter of putting them together...and that when they do...the support will only grow from there. They have the luxury of time in that they're NOT in financial trouble...operating at only a slight loss, due to a fantastic lease with the GEC and a relatively low payroll..and I think that the owners\GM believe in what we're doing...however slowly...making a team that will change people's minds.

I definitely agree with you about the team. Poile has done an excellent job, and the Preds should be a force on the ice (if not the box office) in the next decade.

dulzhok 10-01-2003 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I lived in Nashville for 7 years (I have a Ph.D. from Vanderbilt) and still go back there every few months and also have many friends there. Trust me, hockey is an afterthought to most Nashvillians. Most of the people I talk to down there could give a hoot and many are convinced that the Preds will eventually move on. Nashville is a great city, but a hockey town it is not.

So did you live in Nashville when the Predators were there?

Does "most of the people you talk to" encompass Nashville's hockey base? No. You've just talked to the people you know.

True, the majority of Nashvillians are more into football than hockey. But, #1) Most people already know football, and #2) The Titans have the best record in the NFL over the last 5 years. Hockey wise, #1) The majority don't know hockey, and #2) The Predators have yet to have a winning season.

IF the Predators start to WIN, I have very little doubt that Nashville will support them like most NHL cities with winning teams. Trust me, once NHL playoffs hit Nashville, there will be great interest from Nashville as a whole. The city has the capability. They just need to start winning to generate and maintain interest. Hopefully, that time will come soon.

dulzhok 10-01-2003 10:59 AM

As for the proposal, I wouldn't do it from a Predator's standpoint. While Hamrlik has more size than Timonen, I would venture to say that Timonen is nearly as effecient on the ice. Plus, he costs about over 2 million dollars less and just signed a 4 year extension.

At this point, York is better than Martenik, though Martenik probably has more value.

And to throw in Arkhipov as well? Sure, Arkhipov didn't have a great sophmore campaign after his 20 goal rookie season. But, he's still a BIG center with serious speed and quite a bit of skill. He has the ability to be a real offensive threat, and the Preds aren't ready to give up on him yet.


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