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-   -   News Article: Norris Trophy Watch: Shea Weber brings more than points (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1587447)

Dave is a killer 01-21-2014 10:57 AM

Norris Trophy Watch: Shea Weber brings more than points
 
Yeah, lets trade our best player... and oh yeah +/- is a really dumb stat

preds1 01-21-2014 11:26 AM

Pretty good article. He's certainly due......
I was never on board with trading him except for massive overpayment.

Jarnberg 01-21-2014 11:31 AM

Funny how people on here were trying to defend Trotz/Poile by blaming Weber for the team's troubles.

drwpreds 01-21-2014 12:12 PM

If only he was elite............:sarcasm:

NoNecksCurse 01-21-2014 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drwpreds (Post 78453527)
If only he was elite............:sarcasm:

The past 5-10 games he has been. before that, not so much. hope he continues this but with the anemic forwards we have, i highly doubt he gets the norris on a bad team.

Persona5 01-21-2014 12:33 PM

Weber is gearing up for the olympics so he has been on fire. If the norris race ended right now Weber might be picked third. There is no way Keith wouldn't win it if it was decided on right now. He plays the same type of minutes Weber does and is outperforming Weber.

With that said Weber can still pulll it out but he will need some help from his teammates to do so. Lately he is getting that help as the team is performing a lot better offensively. If this keeps up he has a chance to pass Keith up but it is a long shot the way Keith has been playing.

Enoch 01-21-2014 12:36 PM

Hahaha

We all know +/- is the most important stat. Score at even strength or it didn't happen!@!!!111111

drwpreds 01-21-2014 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse (Post 78454307)
The past 5-10 games he has been. before that, not so much. hope he continues this but with the anemic forwards we have, i highly doubt he gets the norris on a bad team.

So you think the Hockey News (and other hockey writers) is putting Weber near the top of the Norris race solely for his play the last 5-10 games??

101st_fan 01-21-2014 01:06 PM

It's amazing how much better he performs when he shows up every shift, every game. The last four games, he's played good hockey and the team benefited. He decided to play like the Norris candidate he's shown to be in the past and not purely a PP specialist ... he's playing physical defense without playing stupid hockey ... the big question is will the level of play continue after he takes the Team Canada jersey off in Sochi ?

NoNecksCurse 01-21-2014 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drwpreds (Post 78456157)
So you think the Hockey News (and other hockey writers) is putting Weber near the top of the Norris race solely for his play the last 5-10 games??

this is the first article ive seen with him on top and the hockey news is a joke. its one writer... ill value my own opinion of watching weber before one random writer. weber should get votes at this point, but no where close to winning.

Nashville Transplant 01-21-2014 01:22 PM

I've been pretty unimpressed with Weber for much of the year, having spent four seasons in a lovefest with Drew Doughty, but I will say that 13 times this year I've been proven wrong ;) --- I would like to see him be a little more precise with his passing when the team appears in trouble. He just doesn't show the intensity that I'm accustomed to. He's obviously got a world of skill, but on nights when the team seems to be taking large stretches of time off, he's a ringleader, and that pisses me off.

All that being said, he'd fetch a pretty penny on the open market, and depending on the deal, it could actually be beneficial to DP to pull the trigger. Chances slim, but pragmatic thinking says slim, not none.

drwpreds 01-21-2014 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse (Post 78457073)
this is the first article ive seen with him on top and the hockey news is a joke. its one writer... ill value my own opinion of watching weber before one random writer. weber should get votes at this point, but no where close to winning.

That is just one article- I am too lazy to go looking for links, but there are many in the hockey world who have been praising Weber this year, this isn't the first mention of him as a Norris candidate. Weber has been good all season, but GREAT in the past few weeks.

I honestly didn't mean to start something here so on the subject of Weber let's just agree to disagree..........

Oort Cloud 01-21-2014 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 101st_fan (Post 78456491)
It's amazing how much better he performs when he shows up every shift, every game. The last four games, he's played good hockey and the team benefited. He decided to play like the Norris candidate he's shown to be in the past and not purely a PP specialist ... he's playing physical defense without playing stupid hockey ... the big question is will the level of play continue after he takes the Team Canada jersey off in Sochi ?

So you think prior to this stretch he was playing like a PP specialist? Interesting, if so.

Enoch 01-21-2014 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamikazepants (Post 78467065)
So you think prior to this stretch he was playing like a PP specialist? Interesting, if so.

This is one man's opinion which is obviously heavily tied to +/- statistic.

I think that speaks for itself.

101st_fan 01-21-2014 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamikazepants (Post 78467065)
So you think prior to this stretch he was playing like a PP specialist? Interesting, if so.

Have you watched him this year? That was actually being generous to his play for stretches this year. His ES goal and assist totals in January equal each of those numbers for the first three months with Jan as his first multiple ES goal month ... this is the first month where he isn't leading the team's skaters in on ice for goals allowed ... as others have noted, his play was not impressive or up to the elite standard he's shown himself capable of. He wasn't leading and only capitalized on when there was a man advantage ... unlike say Karlsson, Keith, and Seabrook across the league ... or Josi (equal number of ES goals in seven fewer games) and Ellis (one fewer ES goal in 400 fewer ES minutes) if you want to look closer to home.

Weber is a dominating presence when he applies himself. Sadly, as others have also noted, he does not always seem to do so.

His play mirrored that of the team until late ... nothing at ES, depending on the PP (top six conversion rate for the team, bottom five in opportunities ... nowhere near enough to carry a team, but enough to make a player's stats look relatively good in spite of poor ES performance). For the team to succeed, it needs Weber to show up in all situations and play at the level we've seen from him in years past ...the play we've seen from him consistently over the past four games, not what we saw in earlier stretches.

101st_fan 01-21-2014 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch (Post 78468029)
This is one man's opinion which is obviously heavily tied to +/- statistic.

I think that speaks for itself.

I'm commenting directly on his lack of ES production for the first three months of the season and noting the ONLY place he's performed is on the PP. Hell, Zidlicky did that as a Pred. The Preds are the 26th ranked team in PP opportunities. Convert away, there aren't enough chances there to carry the team even with the 6th best conversion rate in the league. Now look at 5on5 scoring ... the team is up to 20th over the past few games. Weber, the "league leading goal scoring defenseman" is not a top ten ES goal scorer. Stay out of the box, neutralize Weber's scoring through the first three months of the year ... pretty much in January as well with his whopping two ES goals.

Keep trying to link it to +/- while getting dismissive and snarky ... I need the laughs although humor is not a substitute for discussing hockey in a hockey forum.

skydog71 01-21-2014 06:12 PM

There's some things that just don't show up on the stat sheet. Remember how good Jones looked at the start of the season when he was paired with Weber? People were talking about how he might be on Team USA and all this other stuff. Well that conversation ended as soon as Josi came back and Jones no longer had Weber to cover for his mistakes.

If Weber had spent the first 3 months of this season with a healthy Josi and didn't miss a week after taking a puck to the face, he'd probably have 18 goals and 45 points right now.

MrMariusz 01-21-2014 06:15 PM

Must keep Weber at all cost. Simple as that.

Oort Cloud 01-21-2014 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 101st_fan (Post 78468849)
Have you watched him this year? That was actually being generous to his play for stretches this year. His ES goal and assist totals in January equal each of those numbers for the first three months with Jan as his first multiple ES goal month ... this is the first month where he isn't leading the team's skaters in on ice for goals allowed ... as others have noted, his play was not impressive or up to the elite standard he's shown himself capable of. He wasn't leading and only capitalized on when there was a man advantage ... unlike say Karlsson, Keith, and Seabrook across the league ... or Josi (equal number of ES goals in seven fewer games) and Ellis (one fewer ES goal in 400 fewer ES minutes) if you want to look closer to home.

Weber is a dominating presence when he applies himself. Sadly, as others have also noted, he does not always seem to do so.

His play mirrored that of the team until late ... nothing at ES, depending on the PP (top six conversion rate for the team, bottom five in opportunities ... nowhere near enough to carry a team, but enough to make a player's stats look relatively good in spite of poor ES performance). For the team to succeed, it needs Weber to show up in all situations and play at the level we've seen from him in years past ...the play we've seen from him consistently over the past four games, not what we saw in earlier stretches.

As I have said earlier, you like to reference two things that I think are either not the best indicators of his play, or something that can't be fairly judged. Statistics that probably more accurately represent the teams play, not the individual.

And then leadership, sorry, I don't think anyone can really paint a fair picture of that. Too much goes into that, that we don't see. Of all the things a coach would be able to see is going awry, wouldn't it be leadership? Would a player not giving the effort he should, not leading as he should, be getting the consistent amount of ice-time he's been getting?

I've been paying extra attention to him since he seems (oddly), to be the skater who receives the most criticism. He's consistently the best player on the ice each night. It's hard to find him out of position, uses the stick well, (Thanks to those two traits he's always calm and composed as opposed to flailing and diving around out there) throws hits every now and then, primarily when he's in the one of those rare out of position instances, scores goals, the team runs through him. Those few games where he was out, the power play, and offense as a whole really, were a disaster.

I don't think those things indicate a "PP specialist" level of play.

Phototropic 01-21-2014 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skydog71 (Post 78472791)
There's some things that just don't show up on the stat sheet. Remember how good Jones looked at the start of the season when he was paired with Weber? People were talking about how he might be on Team USA and all this other stuff. Well that conversation ended as soon as Josi came back and Jones no longer had Weber to cover for his mistakes.

If Weber had spent the first 3 months of this season with a healthy Josi and didn't miss a week after taking a puck to the face, he'd probably have 18 goals and 45 points right now.

Good point.

Enoch 01-21-2014 08:20 PM

Anytime you compare Weber to a pp specialist, I tend to dismiss your comments. It is simply unintelligent and false. You have consistently used plus minus an even strength points to promote your epitaphs that certain players deserve criticism or do not. I view your arguments as highly flawed and hypocritical as we have discussed many times. Weber has been a top 10 defenseman this year. His play speaks for itself IMO.

And please do not hear what I am not saying, I am not say that you are unintelligent/hypocritical. I believe you are quite knowledgeable as a hockey fan. You bring insight into hockey that few have. In this particular case, I feel you are short-sighted in your evaluation.

Nitrous Mafia 01-21-2014 10:20 PM

lol @ the norris being a single season award

lidstrom'd

klt2001 01-21-2014 11:54 PM

I'm just going by the eye test as Weber has always been one of the better players on this team if not the best even from the beginning of the season but it wasn't until about the last 3-4 games that he has stepped his game up more and showed more heart/effort imo and been more of a leader on this team. Just the way he talks in interviews seems more upbeat now than at the beginning of the season, where he seemed so subdued. He definitely is playing better these last 3-4 games than in the past games which is probably why he was getting criticized because they have seen what Weber is capable of, especially when he is in his "beast mode" which he wasn't showing alot of this year but is showing more of in recent games. Don't know if that has to do w/ being paired up w/ Josi instead of Jones or not or just due to the overall play of the team or not but I'll take it. Hope he continues playing the way he has the last 3-4 games for the remainder of the season.

I Will Son 01-22-2014 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse (Post 78454307)
The past 5-10 games he has been. before that, not so much. hope he continues this but with the anemic forwards we have, i highly doubt he gets the norris on a bad team.

Uhhh past 5-10 games?

More like all season

And especially the last 25

Go look at his game log


And it's more than just stats

Dave is a killer 01-22-2014 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Will Son (Post 78509831)
Uhhh past 5-10 games?

More like all season

And especially the last 25

Go look at his game log


And it's more than just stats

but his +/- ... *grumble rabble regurgitate*


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