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-   -   What if Esche is signed by another team? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=160395)

lynchmob450 08-08-2005 09:44 PM

What if Esche is signed by another team?
 
I know i've heard a few people mention this...that other teams would royally screw the Flyers by offering him a contract, forcing the Flyers to match the contract or accept a THIRD round pick. If this were to happen, and Flyers did match the contract, they would be forced to get rid of another contract.

What i am wondering is if you would be comfortable with the Flyers letting Esche go? If yes, is Nitty ready to take the reigns?

If you would prefer for the Flyers to match such a contract, who on the present roster would you want the Flyers to shed (i'm assuming they would have to rid themselves of at least a million).?

Personally, i'd much rather have Esche stock with the Flyers (Nitty can benefit from being around Esche...great attitude). The guy who i would hope the Flyers would get rid of would be Brashear (if you need a goon to intimidate, there is a lineup in the AHL waiting for the opportunity). If not Brash...then get rid of Turner Stevenson.

Brad* 08-08-2005 09:47 PM

The Flyers could get a late round draft pick for Donald Brashear and his $1.7 million dollar contract. It's not much in return, but it would be a salary dump.

If a team offered Esche more than $3.5 million I would seriously consider letting him go. Thankfully, no team would do that.

Nuclear 08-08-2005 09:50 PM

I think Esche would have to turn down his offer first before a team can offer on him.

The management would never trust Niittymaki with this team for the whole season. There's too much money at stake. They'd be forced to sign some crummy vet for 1 million and have Niittymaki fight to be a starter.

Lord ZipLock 08-08-2005 09:53 PM

No one will offer Esche even clsoe to 3 million he has played 40 games once in his career and over 30 games only twice.
Now having said that i am a huge Esche fan but at this point i think that David Aebischer would be a better bet for teams wanting a starting goalie, however i think given a few years he will be getting between 4-5 million a season.

Roger's Pancreas* 08-08-2005 10:04 PM

I was reading a bit because a 3rd rounder seemed kind of low for compensation for lowballing a team. I couldn't find the newer compensation but NHL's page said that "Restricted Free Agency- will continue to operate similarly to how it has operated under the expired CBA." That leads me to believe that if the Leafs cheap shotted us we would receive three 1st round picks as compensation. Here's how the NHL treated RFA's prior to the lockout. Sports Illustrated outline

Brad* 08-08-2005 10:08 PM

I believe the new compensation would require the team to give up a 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd if they placed a $3 million dollar offer to him. I doubt anyone does that for Esche.

Lord ZipLock 08-08-2005 10:16 PM

From NHL.com
Over $2,182,505 - $2,546,256 Two first-round choices

Over $2,546,256 - $3,091,882 Two first-round and one second-round choice

Over $3,091,882 Three first-round choices

Brad* 08-08-2005 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord ZipLock
From NHL.com
Over $2,182,505 - $2,546,256 Two first-round choices

Over $2,546,256 - $3,091,882 Two first-round and one second-round choice

Over $3,091,882 Three first-round choices

You're right. NHL.com says: "Restricted Free Agency - will continue to operate similarly to how it has operated under the expired CBA."

No one is going to give up two or three first round picks for Esche.

blah 08-09-2005 12:30 AM

I'd take 2 1sts for Esche in a second.

Brad* 08-09-2005 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blah
I'd take 2 1sts for Esche in a second.

If they got that, they could deal those picks for a goaltender as well.

blah 08-09-2005 01:02 AM

Huh? I wouldn't trade a 1st for a backup goalie.

Brad* 08-09-2005 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blah
Huh? I wouldn't trade a 1st for a backup goalie.

No, no. If the Flyers received that compensation they could send those picks to acquire another goalie in the event of losing Esche.

Or are you not allowed to trade compensation picks?

mercury 08-09-2005 01:55 AM

I'd want to keep Esche, but if the offer was high enough to get us two 1sts, I'd sign someone on the cheap as a backup, throw Nitty in there, and see what happens. A Flyers team with two 1st rounders and four 2nd rounders would be frightening in a deep 2006 Draft.

blah 08-09-2005 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad
No, no. If the Flyers received that compensation they could send those picks to acquire another goalie in the event of losing Esche.

Or are you not allowed to trade compensation picks?

I was saying start Niity and sign a backup goalie.

Pretty sure you can trade them since they're not comp picks. The team who signed him would have to give up their 06 and 07 1st round pick or whatever the chart says.

Brad* 08-09-2005 03:35 AM

There is no way, with the huge investment the organization has made, that they'd go with a rookie goalie. Not a chance.

fcbarcelona 08-09-2005 04:10 AM

no one's gonna want to sign esche. bank on it. :) he, along with hatcher and forsberg's potential to be injured, is a weak link in this roster. why would teams want to ruin with that? ;)

please take care of forsberg though. us avs fans miss him quite a bit :help:

John Flyers Fan 08-09-2005 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad
There is no way, with the huge investment the organization has made, that they'd go with a rookie goalie. Not a chance.

I disagree. If someone signed Esche to a huge offer sheet and they let him walk they'd go with Niitty and bring in a veteran to be his back-up.

This organization is very very high on Frank, and it wouldn't be the first time we rolled the dice with a great team and a rookie goalie. Niitty is far more proven than Hextall was in the fall of 1987.

GKJ 08-09-2005 07:13 AM

Hypothetical: If Esche was to sign an offer sheet from another team...
 
...what do we do if the offer is too much to match? I would bet that the Flyers would not go into the season with Niittymaki as the #1 goalie, and just about any other goalie would give the Flyers cap problems as Esche would probably be the cheapest goalie on the market who is any good.

i am dave 08-09-2005 09:04 AM

d00ds, y d1dn't teh fliers sing a totly 1337 golee liek kahbi?
.
.
.
.
Oh man... I'm sorry. That.... That won't happen again.

stanley 08-09-2005 09:04 AM

If somebody gave Bobby an offer sheet in the neighborhood of $3M, the only question would be how many things would Clarke break trying to get to the phone quickly to wish Esche well. I'm guessing that he'd probably turn around and sign Burke or Joseph. I think that ideally, this team wants Esche in goal but that it wouldn't mortgage more of its future financial flexibility to do so, particularly when they have Frank waiting in the wings. Reading this thread, I think many people here have these same thoughts.

Brad,
Remember that Jay Feaster traded four first-round picks to the Flyers for Renberg and Dykhuis because he wanted NHL help immediately instead of the future picks he received for the signing of Gratton to that contract with mammoth signing bonus. I'd like to also suggest that never has one man dodged a bigger mistake than Bob Clarke with the Chris Gratton signing. I'm sure he looks in the mirror every now and then and goes "whew!"

----------------------------

Edit: About Esche, or restricted free agents in particular, I think the market price for him is a hair over, at most, his qualifying offer. Though they play different positions than Hairy Bob, Gagne, Grier, and Tanguay received and accepted offers at their qualifying amounts. I don't think anybody wants to pay players more than they have to. Furthermore, Clarke also took a firm stand with Richards and Carter, not offering them incentive bonus packages typical for first-round picks with the pre-NHL resumes of those two.

It's a different climate. I think HB will get a fair offer and accept it. If he doesn't the Flyers have options that don't include draining their remaining cap room this year or going into debt in future years.

Jester 08-09-2005 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blah
I'd take 2 1sts for Esche in a second.

we are obviously setup to compete NOW, but just imagine if we get ANOTHER 1st rounder next year... that would be 6 picks in the first two rounds... jeez. we'd be setting up to be a juggernaut in short order if we draft wisely.

GKJ 08-09-2005 06:45 PM

Don't know how I missed the other thread.

MojoJojo 08-09-2005 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanley
Edit: About Esche, or restricted free agents in particular, I think the market price for him is a hair over, at most, his qualifying offer.

Esche's QO is a half milion dollars. You really think his market value is at most a hair over 500K?

We should offer Esche 1.9. if he accepts an offer sheet over 2 mil, we take the 1st and third and trade one of our seconds for TBo.

Gert B Frobe 08-09-2005 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad
I believe the new compensation would require the team to give up a 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd if they placed a $3 million dollar offer to him. I doubt anyone does that for Esche.

Maybe the Rags would - although they haven't shown signs of rampant stupidity lately (or signs of life for that matter...)

stanley 08-10-2005 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Esche's QO is a half milion dollars. You really think his market value is at most a hair over 500K?

Oh gosh, no.

This, fellow board members, is why you should do your homework before you post. I had presumed for the longest time that Esche was paid a little over $1M in his last contract, for reasons that I'm not exactly sure. I saw yesterday in an article somewhere that his qualifying offer was low and thought that it would certainly take more to sign him.


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