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-   -   Speculation: What If Jaromir Jagr Never Left? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1604085)

Thirty One 02-13-2014 01:58 PM

What If Jaromir Jagr Never Left?
 
What if Jaromir Jagr Never Left?

Quote:

In July of 2008, the Rangers and Jaromir Jagr parted ways. More than five years later, hes representing his country in the Olympics, scoring a goal on Henrik Lundqvist yesterday.

Between his departure and now, Jagr played three seasons in the KHL registering 66 goals and 80 assist in 155 games. Only four players scored more in the KHL over that span. Hes also come back to play 177 NHL games, scoring 52 goals and adding 86 assists.

Matt4776 02-13-2014 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31- (Post 79851615)

We don't sign Marcus Naslund.

NYRFAN218 02-13-2014 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt4776 (Post 79851669)
We don't sign Marcus Naslund.

Probably don't sign Redden either.

Jagr's option not being triggered by the stupid Hart trophy voting in 06 really changed everything. We get him at another year for under 5 million if he wins that award and that entire offseason is probably different.

Matt4776 02-13-2014 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 (Post 79851977)
Probably don't sign Redden either.

Jagr's option not being triggered by the stupid Hart trophy voting in 06 really changed everything. We get him at another year for under 5 million if he wins that award and that entire offseason is probably different.

And if we don't sign Redden, maybe we sign Gaborik without trading Gomez, which means we never get McD.

Too many ifs to determine if we'd be a better team or not.

NYRFAN218 02-13-2014 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt4776 (Post 79852109)
And if we don't sign Redden, maybe we sign Gaborik without trading Gomez, which means we never get McD.

Too many ifs to determine if we'd be a better team or not.

That's true for the teams going forward but for the 08-09 Rangers, it was a mistake. That was probably Sathers worst offseason since the 05 lockout. Three stupid signings (Redden, Rissmiller, Voros) and a trade (albeit looked good at the time) that was made to compensate for the offense lost with Jagr where we gave up Tyutin. I wasn't a fan of the money they gave Rozsival either but I'll leave that one out of it.

OverTheCap 02-13-2014 02:25 PM

I don't think there would be any cap space for Redden with Jagr signed. There's no need to trade for Zherdev with Jagr still at right wing. I think Naslund still signs with the team, as he filled a need at left wing and his contract was reasonable. Perhaps Renney doesn't get fired midseason with Jagr on the team. Gomez lacked chemistry with Jagr and butt heads with Renney, I think he still gets traded regardless.

Thirty One 02-13-2014 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 (Post 79851977)
Probably don't sign Redden either.

Jagr's option not being triggered by the stupid Hart trophy voting in 06 really changed everything. We get him at another year for under 5 million if he wins that award and that entire offseason is probably different.

Still, the Rangers would have been in the same situation the next year. The easiest solution would be to sign Jagr regardless.

NYRFAN218 02-13-2014 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31- (Post 79853221)
Still, the Rangers would have been in the same situation the next year. The easiest solution would be to sign Jagr regardless.

True. I just never got the impression they wanted him back. It seemed like they wanted to turn that team over to Drury and Gomez with the departures of Straka, Jagr, Shanahan, and Avery and what they wound up doing was a colossal mistake. Thankfully they rectified a lot of it the following offseason with the Gomez trade and Gaborik signing.

Thirty One 02-13-2014 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 (Post 79853693)
True. I just never got the impression they wanted him back. It seemed like they wanted to turn that team over to Drury and Gomez with the departures of Straka, Jagr, Shanahan, and Avery and what they wound up doing was a colossal mistake. Thankfully they rectified a lot of it the following offseason with the Gomez trade and Gaborik signing.

Me neither. I didn't get it then, and I don't get it now.

Leetch3 02-13-2014 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt4776 (Post 79852109)
And if we don't sign Redden, maybe we sign Gaborik without trading Gomez, which means we never get McD.

Too many ifs to determine if we'd be a better team or not.

but that what makes it fun...its like those choose your own ending books. each decision changes things. its potentially more entertaining than just complaining about the same stuff...and it really shows how no move is made in a vaccuum and there is a ripple effect for every move

TheTakedown 02-13-2014 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 (Post 79853693)
True. I just never got the impression they wanted him back. It seemed like they wanted to turn that team over to Drury and Gomez with the departures of Straka, Jagr, Shanahan, and Avery and what they wound up doing was a colossal mistake. Thankfully they rectified a lot of it the following offseason with the Gomez trade and Gaborik signing.

Most accurate! :D

I miss Gabs :(

azrok22 02-13-2014 03:30 PM

I do enjoy what ifs (and loved Jagr), but how about this one instead. What if we didn't trade for Jagr with Washington and instead blew it up for a rebuild in 2003-2004 like we desperately needed?

The bottom of the league in 2003-2004 was:

NYR - 69 points
Phoenix - 68 points
Columbus - 62 points
Washington - 59 points
Chicago - 59 points
Pittsburgh - 58 points

Washington sent us Jagr in January and we end up with Montoya in the 2004 Draft. Do we end up with 5+ less wins over the next 35 games he played with us that year if Anson Carter was going out there instead of Jagr? We only won 8 games the rest of that year with him, so there's definitely no guarantee that we behind Washington (who also may have won more or less games with Jagr still in the lineup), Chicago, or Pittsburgh.

Regardless, one can not help but wonder where this team would be if we had been able to build around a young Lundqvist + Malkin/Ovechkin coming out of the 2005 lockout.

At least some in Washington see the trade as Jagr for Ovechkin:

Quote:

I believed what I typed about the Jagr deal. The way I saw things: The Caps gave the New York Rangers a past and future Lester B. Pearson Trophy awardee (given annually to the NHL's best player, and to Jagr in 1999, 2000 and 2006 ) plus millions of dollars in cash in exchange for...Anson Carter.

The way Leonsis saw things: "I traded Jagr for Alex Ovechkin."
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/b...ns-do-we-lose/

Thirty One 02-13-2014 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azrok22 (Post 79855901)
I do enjoy what ifs (and loved Jagr), but how about this one instead. What if we didn't trade for Jagr with Washington and instead blew it up for a rebuild in 2003-2004 like we desperately needed?

The bottom of the league in 2003-2004 was:

NYR - 69 points
Phoenix - 68 points
Columbus - 62 points
Washington - 59 points
Chicago - 59 points
Pittsburgh - 58 points

Washington sent us Jagr in January and we end up with Montoya in the 2004 Draft. Do we end up with 5+ less wins over the next 35 games he played with us that year if Anson Carter was going out there instead of Jagr? We only won 8 games the rest of that year with him, so there's definitely no guarantee that we behind Washington (who also may have won more or less games with Jagr still in the lineup), Chicago, or Pittsburgh.

Regardless, one can not help but wonder where this team would be if we had been able to build around a young Lundqvist + Malkin/Ovechkin coming out of the 2005 lockout.

At least some in Washington see the trade as Jagr for Ovechkin:



http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/b...ns-do-we-lose/

A difference of 5 wins in 35 games for a single player is astronomical.

And that's some crazy logic from Leonsis.

Green Blob* 02-13-2014 03:43 PM

http://www.tdogmedia.com/wp-content/...-Cup-again.jpg

vipernsx 02-13-2014 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31- (Post 79851615)

Messier would be 3rd overall in all time scoring.

Thirty One 02-13-2014 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vipernsx (Post 79856609)
Messier would be 3rd overall in all time scoring.

Yup. At least according to my projections:

http://rangersunlimited.com/wp-conte...14/02/jagr.png

BlueshirtBlitz 02-13-2014 03:51 PM

Would we have won the cup with a not-Hart Jagr over the next few years?

I don't know. And I forget what contract ideas were being thrown around. I love Jags but I don't think we lost a cup by not resigning him.

Thirty One 02-13-2014 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz (Post 79856885)
Would we have won the cup with a not-Hart Jagr over the next few years?

I don't know. And I forget what contract ideas were being thrown around. I love Jags but I don't think we lost a cup by not resigning him.

A Cup is probably unlikely, but a better chance than without Jagr.

I got the sense that about any multi-year offer would have gotten Jagr. He wouldn't budge on a 1 year deal though (apparently Edmonton offered him $7 million). Jagr says the deal he got with Omsk was $10 million / 2 years.

dethomas07 02-13-2014 03:56 PM

A cup

NYRFAN218 02-13-2014 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31- (Post 79857061)
A Cup is probably unlikely, but a better chance than without Jagr.

I got the sense that about any multi-year offer would have gotten Jagr. He wouldn't budge on a 1 year deal though (apparently Edmonton offered him $7 million). Jagr says the deal he got with Omsk was $10 million / 2 years.

From what I remember and what your article says, he wanted 3 years at $7 million per. The Rangers I think wouldn't go more than 1 year at $7 million.

In the end, I happen to agree and feel 2 years for $14 million total would have gotten it done.

NYRFANMANI 02-13-2014 04:08 PM

He's a mercenary. That's all I have to say to him.

With him, we'd be a contender though, every year. He would simply be 80 pts more on the roster ... god knows, we could use it. I remember the day I looked up, that he signed with the Rangers, I snapped, so pumped. Good times.

Maybe we could trade for him at the deadline. That surely was the Devils plan all along, they sign Jagr and then trade him for some early pick this year.

The thought of trading with the Devs is disgusting.

vipernsx 02-13-2014 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 (Post 79857259)
From what I remember and what your article says, he wanted 3 years at $7 million per. The Rangers I think wouldn't go more than 1 year at $7 million.

In the end, I happen to agree and feel 2 years for $14 million total would have gotten it done.

Jagr wanted Drury and Gomez money and rightfully so.

TheTakedown 02-13-2014 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vipernsx (Post 79858157)
Jagr wanted Drury and Gomez money and rightfully so.

its too bad we had to pay Gomez, because Jagr has desrved every bit of his asking price since then

NYRFAN218 02-13-2014 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vipernsx (Post 79858157)
Jagr wanted Drury and Gomez money and rightfully so.

I can't blame him. I know a lot of people were torn on Jagr after that final season. Some people were pissed that he coasted for a lot of games but on the flip side, he was by far our best player in the playoffs that year. Say what you want about him, but he came to play against the Devils and Penguins.

Thirty One 02-13-2014 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vipernsx (Post 79858157)
Jagr wanted Drury and Gomez money and rightfully so.

Link?


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